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Old 02-12-2014, 05:53 AM   #43
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I had similar experience with the front hitch. In the end and for my own peace of mind I took off the 60 year old worn out hitch and welded a new modern hitch. Safety is always paramount.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:10 AM   #44
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1955 22' Flying Cloud
Lansing , Kansas
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Layout and holding tank plan

I spent a good amount of time today working on my plan for the waste and fresh water tank systems. My weakness in this process is my skills in plumbing and electrical work. As Dirty Harry said in Magnum Force, ďA manís got to know his limitations,Ē and mine include plumbing and electrical. I ordered the black tank from Pelland Enterprises, and I will get the fresh and gray water tanks from Vintage Trailer Supply. I cannot say enough good things about them. I went through about 20 different sites, and debated about whether to put in a extension similar to that in the new trailers for the tanks, but ultimately decided to set it up so that all the tanks would fit in the frame.

This is all based upon the updated floor plan from after I measured and mocked up. I have the specific measurements in my notebook, but putting them into a drafting like program is on the agenda, along with learning Google Sketchup in order to make final refinements. The wife was insistent upon a separate bath and shower, and I am not a big fan of wet showers either. I will probably set up the shower so that I can include a bar for hanging up clothes. I was surprised that I was able to make the shower and bath as large as I was, and I have left a bit of flexibility so that I can increase the size of the bed if I need to. I am planning all of the electrical bits and batteries up front under the dinette, and the water pump, water heater, and storage under the bed.

The last slide is the planned frame modifications. Most of the weak feeling and thin L cross members will be replaced with much stronger steel C Channel cross members. A big thanks to Steve at VTS helping me with the plumbing requirements, what great service! I was trying to figure the best way to balance the tanks for the best weight distribution. With the batteries, electrical, spare tire, and propane tanks up front, it should help offset anything behind the axle. My thanks also to those who suggested frame mods.

I think this layout is pretty well set, with the worst case scenario that I swap the positions of the shower and lavatory, but I believe that the tank layout and the positioning of the pump and water heater will facilitate that. The last part that I am working on is how to fully organize access panels for electrical and the drain valve handles. I am thinking of creating those in between the ends of the frame outriggers using the edge banana wrap portion of the belly skin as a door panel. Hopefully that will minimize holes in the side of the trailer, and things hanging below, as well as provide some protection from the elements.

If you see potential for any last minute refinements, please advise, nothing is set it stone yet. Thanks in advance and for reading.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:24 AM   #45
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Superb detail, makes it very easy to understand :-) In my layouts, (of which I'm rapidly filling a huge sketch book), I seem to dwell on the fresh tanks being just ahead of the axles. Probably because towing with full fresh tanks is often mentioned as best for stability. I can't say I've noticed a difference in handling on my Overlander but it's a trailer not a track car….so who knows. Most likely not a big deal, especially if you tow dry but it was the only thing that leapt out at me.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:27 AM   #46
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1960 24' Tradewind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
Superb detail, makes it very easy to understand :-) In my layouts, (of which I'm rapidly filling a huge sketch book), I seem to dwell on the fresh tanks being just ahead of the axles. Probably because towing with full fresh tanks is often mentioned as best for stability. I can't say I've noticed a difference in handling on my Overlander but it's a trailer not a track car….so who knows. Most likely not a big deal, especially if you tow dry but it was the only thing that leapt out at me.
. . . and it looks like you have room for an above floor water tank, under your dinette / booth - right up against the front window (which is also a good spot for the weight)
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:51 PM   #47
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Having gone through the order process with VTS let me give you a couple of heads up. Make plenty of drawings of each tank and where you want all fitting for plumbing and vents to be on the tank. I thought I had it right and two out of three tanks ended up with vents in the wrong spot. No biggie and I was able to modify to correct the errors. Another thing to consider is vents, (or rather a bung so you can add a a fitting), esp. if you are tying a couple together, keep your vents as close as possible to the side of trailer. Eventually they will have to go up and you don't a vent line in the middle of your floor. Another easy issue is: Have a fitting bung added to the bottom of each tank,(either all at the front of the tank, or the rear bottom of each tank). This fitting would be equipped with a plumbing gate valve below the belly pan. An easy levering to drain any and all tanks and seasons end , or as a way to easy flush each tank when needed to.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:57 PM   #48
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2012 30' Flying Cloud
1955 22' Flying Cloud
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Polishing the Interior Endcaps

Barry, thanks for the reminders on the hitch and the tank sketches. I had to make sure I added the hitch inspection on to the list for the welder, and I have been working with Steve to ensure that I was on the right track for the tank sketches and fittings. He has been super helpful, and it makes me feel a lot better about the large purchases I am about to make, especially for things that are not returnable.

On to the first polishing story!

Figuring out how to get a shine on the interior panels after the soda blasting was not as easy or as straight forward as I imagined.

I didn't really have any idea what would work. My original intent was to polish the entire interior prior to removal of the skins to get the first messy cut out of the way on the old, cruddy floors that I was planning on removing anyway. I would learn after about three full days of polishing that doing the whole interior was a) not remotely practical and b) would not achieve the results I wanted due to minor corrosion, scratches, and holes that were just too much for my needs. Now, I think that only the front and rear endcap, the center panel running down the wall and window height, and rear end lower panels will be re-used. Some of the side panels that are both only cosmetically flawed and that will be located behind existing cabinetry will still be used as well, but the ceiling and the exposed lower panels on the front and sides I will replace.

I started polishing experiments on an area that would be hidden behind the fridge, and it took about a week of 6-8 hour days to really start to make progress and figure out a viable technique, and decide how to truly tackle the issues. I started a work rhythm where I would work on the windows on the nicer, warmer days, and work on the interior on the very cold or snowy days. I put first one small, then one big space heater in the trailer to warm it up (to about 40-45 degrees F) prior to working and just went to polishing when I couldn't work outside.

My first try was to us F7 on a wool bonnet. Very little visible effect really. I then moved to a spiral sown 8Ē wheel with black and brown compound on my heavy drill at 1200 rpm. With a lot of pressure and many passes it started to work out, but still not practical. So I bought and tried some 3M abrasive finishing pads and some wet sanding paper at 600 and 1000 grit. The sanding material definitely sped up the process of cutting and creating an initial shine, but after following it with the spiral wheel or wool bonnet I could not get it up to the same quality shine that I could achieve without sanding first. Maybe I had to take off too much of the Alclad to get it to shine. Or maybe the looser bits of aluminum at the extreme surface of the texture just moved easier to achieve a shine, donít know, but I wasn't going to be able to hand sand the whole interior. Sorry, too lazy, and based on the amount of time I spent polishing anyway, I know I am not lazy. Though I have learned while making my own beer that my biggest increases in beer quality over the last 12 years were spurred by my own laziness. I firmly believe that laziness is the true mother of invention.

Time to kick it up a notch. I got an adapter and put the spiral wheel on the side angle grinder thinking more speed might help make it more efficient. It had too much speed at 11,000 rpm and not enough torque or strength to do the job. I stopped that before I destroyed the nice DeWalt grinder. I tried F9 on the wool bonnet, and it may have been too cold, but really underwhelming. I decided not to waste it in case it was just too cold for the polish. Another notch brought out the sisal wheels, large block of black compound from Caswell, and a polisher from Harbor Freight. Say what you want about HF, it worked for me. Even if it died now, I got my moneyís worth. The 6Ē sisal wheel was too fast to hold compound and push aluminum properly, but the 8Ē on the heavy 13A DeWalt drill (cue Tim Allen grunt) held the compound and started doing the trick and cutting effectively. Two passes later and I had the pictures that you see below. Thatís about 40 hours and 2.75 pounds of black compound, 3+ sisal wheels, a pair of gloves, about 8 particle masks, and two Shopvac loads of debris right there in the pictures. Giving the sisal wheels a little trim with scissors when it got loose fibers helped too.

On the picture of the full rear you can see the panels that had hidden rivets that were not accessible until the rear window and rear cargo door were removed. I donít think they were intended to be hidden, but they were.

I also noticed that the center piece of the front endcap is steel or some other extremely hard alloy. The media blasting didn't phase it and it shined very easily. The back was not marked either. It would be good to know what material it is made from.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:29 AM   #49
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I had another set of questions to pull from the collective wisdom of the forums. I am planning out my painting schemes.

- I am leaning toward using the POR-15 system of paints, and would prefer to spray it on with an inexpensive sprayer that would work with my existing air compressor. I know it sticks to everything, but what are the other practical considerations between spraying and brushing it on?

- Does anyone have good experience with another automotive style paint? I am wondering about quality alternatives to POR-15. I would get the whole thing powder coated if I could but from a practical standpoint it would be extremely difficult.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:32 AM   #50
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I'm a POR-15 user for almost 15 years on numerous hot rods, trailer frames, and other 'stuff' around the shop. It's a good product, but messy if spraying. A good coat or two is plenty though some of the stuff ( black I think) is UV sensitive and will require a top coating over it. It's getting very expensive now days and I remember buying it by the gal for like $25.00. Another Co. called Eastman also makes various rust coating products that work great but are even more expensive. Google 'rust inhibiting paints' for more help.
Now then once you get this on you, you'll have about 60 seconds to take it off or three weeks to wear it off. A couple of hints, don't get it on your clothes it WILL bleed through to your skin. Wear gloves and long sleeves if possible. Before painting with it, wipe your hands/ face and anything else you don't want black , with hand lotion to plug up your pores for when you do, and you will, get it on you. Also be very careful about where you put your hands, yea you know what I'm talking about. Think pokadots and other calamitous patterns!!
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:38 PM   #51
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1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso , Texas
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I say stick with POR15, I follow the instructions and man does that stuff work. I brushed it on and I'm sure spraying would be better but the manufacturer says most brush it on.
Good luck, may the force be with you and read the instructions and coat your exposed skin with Vaseline or similar.
Mike
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:51 PM   #52
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+ respirator. It's very nasty for humans.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:23 PM   #53
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Removing the Rear Window

Gents, appreciate the feedback. I have been to the Eastwood site some, and am definitely interested in some of their other products. It looked like their other chassis coat kits were comparable to the POR in price at least. Is there a significant difference between the regular POR-15 and their chassis coat product?

I think I will err on the safe side by using the brush method. Based on your comments, I see where the oblique references to coating oneself in vasoline come from.

The weather was nicer and warmer with a break from the snow, so a day to work on removing the windows. I started out by drilling off the rain cap. The window was not in great shape when I purchased it, and was missing the crank to raise and lower it, but did have the lock down clasps for the escape hatch and window closing.

With the escape hatch clasps open bringing the normal back frame and screen with the front of the window. There is an extra piano hinge to drill out at the top of the window, but apparently it leaked a lot. The last 2-3 inches of the sub floor was mush, and the c channel was complete corroded away.

Removed the cargo door as well. I love them in that location, I am not sure why some folks donít unless their floor plan prohibits it. Hinges from the bottom, and uses back frame and gasket as well. I am sure that this will need to go back together very tight in order to prevent leaks.

Sadly, the lower rear outside panel is corroded to the point of peeling and flaking. It tool will need to be replaces. Fortunately, the panels in either side are still in good shape. The rear tail light will be replaces with an LED light, and Bargman No. 9 trim rings. The old No. 9s were rusted beyond recovery and replaced by Airstream NW for my SWMBO when they checked the brakes to make sure it was roadworthy.

To get an idea of just how much sealant some PO put in, that is ľĒ thick at its thinnest. And it ran all the way across at the top with more at the other side. You can also see how much it was still leaking from the streak in the upper right of the last pick coming from the right side of the window.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:38 PM   #54
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More polishing progress

Coming along on polishing. Removed the lower, unserviceable panels, rolled them up and put them away for a template.

Interestingly no front plate. I was surprised. There will be when it goes back together.

The space heater in the trailer makes it feasible to work, but missing a caster, so itís propped up with the worn out sisal wheels.

The shine is coming along with a faint texture in the sheet, which I actually like, so it doesnít look like fun house mirrors.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:08 PM   #55
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Further deconstruction

Ok, more pictures of the deconstruction of the interior skins and polishing for perspective. I am slowly catching up the blog to real life. Good thing that the windows take for-ever. I real life I have windows deconstructed, repaired, straightened, cleaned, sanded, polished and prepared for final polish and putting back together. Only about forty hours of work so far on the windows, and I would guess another sixty to go including the window frames.

Some highlights:

- The shiny panel in the forward endcap I haven't figured out.

- Close up of the hidden rivets behind the window frame.

- The very delicate window frame that nearly came apart as I removed the wall panels.

- The only working La Deax (sp?) lifters, sans handles

- Yes, we got eight inches of snow that was piled up on the roof and windows, which actually appeared to help insulate the interior of the trailer and made it warmer. Next time, I will provide some perspective on how these trailers really conduct heat.

- I love the old fan for the range, but I will need a new fan motor or fan assembly, and I would prefer not to cut the hole bigger.

- If anyone needs a toilet base, youíre welcome to it. Only piece of the interior that the PO left me.

- Finally, fortunately, the wheel wells are in great shape, I and I should be able to have them ready for use again with cleaning and some minor bending back into shape.

I would be grateful if anyone has a great source for replacement fans or appropriate motors. I guess it has to be 12V but I have no idea the rpms. Thanks.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:50 AM   #56
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Fan motor

Matt I have a motor out of an ceiling fen that is 12 volt may work in your vent also one handle or knob for leduex opener freebies if u want them I am located near Platte City MO. U can call me at 816-489-2652
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1955, air conditioning, axle, door, flying cloud, frame, holding tanks, polish, restoration, shell off, tank heater, window


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