The Double Nickel Project - 1955 Flying Cloud

[MattB]

Originally Posted by goshawks00

Thanks, are measurements for the door, or the door opening. I think that may be be where ‘the rub’ is at,if possible I could use both thanks again

These measurements are for the door opening.

I can give you the door too, but they are a little wacky compared to the frame at 25" at the bottom, up to 25 1/2" toward the top.

[MattB]

Never having made much in the way of fine finished furniture, I wanted to mock up the furniture and cabinets, including the bulkhead walls. The bulkhead walls were entirely missing when I bought the trailer, so needed to be entirely reconstructed from scratch.

For less than $200 I was able to get enough inexpensive underlay, thin plywood, and 1x2 lumber to make everything. My guess is that mocking it up has already saved me that much in expensive cherry wood just on the bed in accounting for the mistakes that I have made and lessons learned at no more than a few dollars.

The bed goes in first, and allows me to refine the head and food design, drawer design, etc.



Shaping the bulkhead walls has been difficult but I think I am getting there. I used a template device for the curve of the wall, although not perfect. Many small changes later, I think I have the bathroom layout. I also found a narrow and square-ish sink for the bathroom at Ikea that will simplify the cabinet design in lavatory. I am forced to redesign the black tank setup as well, likely going with a tank above the floor, but that will also greatly ease the plumbing for the drains.

[Bubba L]

Matt, we built mock-ups on just about everything in the 55. Well worth the time, expense and effort IMO. But you are right, prime wood is expensive and worth the effort to mock up an area. Also, we’ve used the “flip up” sink in the bathroom during the last few trips. Worked well. Good luck and glad to see you posting progress.

[MattB]

The bulkhead walls are tedious and difficult and require and initial form with the curve replicating tool, and then checking, trimming, sanding until it goes. There are more irregularities in the walls that the eye will reveal.




The first take on the galley cabinet reveals that my original plan for the oven and microwave will not work due to the wheel well, and the vent fan location. But things will fit the way I want them to overall.



Needed to get a better picture of how the dinette will fit for storage and for the seat backs. I see a lot of U-shaped dinettes in trailers, and I understand now the work difference involved in having seat backs. A lot of brain crunching the details of how to incorporate quarter round corners going on.

[MattB]

One of the features that I very much want in my cabinets is quarter round vertical corners. I think it will give a fantastic period style, streamline modern look to the cabinets. I will also add some trim to complete the look with a few simple, and hopefully stylish features.

I have been looking at several techniques for the rounded corners, including having moldings custom made, buying curved plywood, bendable plywood, and making them myself.

I originally wanted 3" radius corners for everything including the bulkhead walls, cabinets, headboard and footboard, dinette seat and back, etc. And I have thought a lot about various joinery to attach those corners to the flat parts of the cabinet. There really is a dearth of information out there in the dozen or so cabinet books I have gone through, almost nothing on Youtube, and very little that I can find otherwise on the internet. If you have a niche source our there, I am all ears.

I have learned a few things in the process.

For a number of the cabinets, and the seat backs, 3" is just too big, 1.5" seems to be just right.

Putting in the support structure needed for the bendable plywood does not seem to be easily feasible with my knowledge and tools to replicate what I have seen in my Spartan cabinets on the larger radiused corner cabinets.

The smaller radius corner cabinets, the corners are solid. But there just simply is not the router bits available to make ones own in 1.5"-3" radius quarter round.

Curved plywood is out there, but expensive and limited since several vendors have informed me that one of the two U.S. manufacturers recently went out of business. I did find 5/8" thickness in 3" radius from two vendors, but they were both out of 3/4" thickness.

The curved plywood is made from poplar, which is great from a cabinet construction standpoint, but it doesn't match cherry, so I will need to veneer it. BTW, cherry veneer is more expensive than cherry plywood in my area, so go figure that out.

So, with all that I decided to have a go at making my own quarter round in 3" and 1.5" radius from some scrap in my shop. You can see the type of wood I started with and what I got from it. You can't see the small imperfections in the 3" piece. This one is short, and might be OK for the dinette seat, but I learned it won't be feasible for the bulkhead walls. However, a junk 2x4 yielded several very nice 1.5" pieces that I can use for mockup and the final cabinet corners. The original 2x4 was in rough shape, but had some nice wood in tight quarter and rift-sawn grain underneath. What you can see is the product of my old table saw and an old bench sander. I used a small old paint can for the 3" diameter to draw a 1.5" radius semi-circle. One of my most pleasing days in the shop for sure.

[MattB]

I don't know if sitting still and staring at your seat back for several hours constitutes work, but it seems to take a lot of energy. Maybe I am not that smart, but I am persistent and relentless, and so it took me a while to figure it out. I will still fine tune the dimensions a bit more, but this seemed to simplify the design from what I originally planned, making it neater and lighter in the process.

The street side bench is longer than the curb side so that one can turn sideways on it and stretch your legs. Otherwise, that space under the window between the bench and galley cabinet is not especially useful, and would have been empty or needed a little end table. I can put a drawer in the end section, and get a bit more practical storage out of it.

The tops of the seat backs will be hinged and allow one to open them as lids for storage underneath in the seat back itself. Surprisingly, matching the curves was about the easiest curves to match in the trailer.

One can never have too many clamps, especially when trying to join a quarter round corner.

[MattB]

This might actually be versions 4/5 if I count some of my original drawing versions that I planned to use. I should note that all of the cabinet and floor plan drawings of each area took at least four iterations to update and develop as I adjusted, moved things around, and incorporated all the adjacent systems. When I see people building these things seemingly very quickly and assuredly on various blogs and YouTube videos, I assume they skipped a bunch of this thinking and development in the presentation, are simply faster than I am or it looks like they simply didn't put as much into their work. Depends on the case. I am slow.


After realizing I needed to move the microwave, I redesigned to move the oven up and to the left above the wheel well.


I liked it but was not completely satisfied. SWMBO informed me that this was simply unsatisfactory, so that ended any question, and things got reshuffled for the sink and range to make it work they way she wanted. So try again.


But the two burner range and sink seem to go well now. And my overall measurements seem to fit well. So happy outcome after redesigning the base and drawer supports as well.

[truckasaurus]

Super nice work Matt. The radius corners are such a great style.

[TouringDan]

Very tedious work. The great results you get are a function of the time and effort that you put into the design and the fabrication end of it. I am sure you will be happy with the end result. There are simply no shortcuts. I applaud your diligence.

Dan

[MattB]

My posts here are in part catching up over the last few months, but this is the arrival of the quarter round plywood.

I am actually pretty pleased with it. Very, very solid, and looks pretty well built, straight, etc. The only thing I am nervous about is joining to other walls due to the thickness. It will be virtually impossible for me to dado or rabbet well without a significant expenditure in tools, and I don't think it would be that effective. Many of my cabinet books caution about joining materials less than 3/4" thick, and I can see why. I have even experimented extensively with joining 5/8" thick stock. Of note, the curved plywood pieces in my 2012 are all 3/4" thick and held together with pocket screws.

That said, I have a large number of 1/4" by 3/4" strips left over from trimming other pieces, and I think I can use them to make the joining edge thicker, without causing structure or appearance problems, and then pocket screw the edges to other walls or face frames.

One other thought. 5/8" thick material is marginally lighter than 3/4" material, and using 1/4" thick plywood for the bulkhead walls is a significant weight savings over 3/4" and also significantly easier to handle and use. For example, I am able to use the F-channel for holding the walls in place as original.

So, if you are reading this as a more experienced wood worker, please bear with me as I discovery learn my way through this. Nevertheless, this product is kind of cool the more I think about it. You cannot order in 8' lengths very easily, but I had them cut 16" sections off of each one for a significant savings in shipping cost, and now I will just need to trim the remaining pieces a little to have the correct lengths for what I need on the walls (~77") and on the dinette benches (~ 15").

[HiHoAgRV]

I also made radiused solid corners in my ‘63. Started off with 6 beveled cherry planks, glued them into a hex tube and turned them round on a lathe. I then split them into quarters. It was very time consuming.
I have also used the rolled ply corners with veneers attached. You are right, attaching them to a cabinet is fiddley. I basically glued them inside a 90degree plank assembly to get something that would make a solid corner assembly. It wastes space but makes a good cabinet. Some of the bent ply was for an inside corner of the U shaped dinette. Those were a terror to veneer!

[goshawks00]

Looks familiar...what radius?

[MattB]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

I also made radiused solid corners in my ‘63. Started off with 6 beveled cherry planks, glued them into a hex tube and turned them round on a lathe. I then split them into quarters. It was very time consuming.
I have also used the rolled ply corners with veneers attached. You are right, attaching them to a cabinet is fiddley. I basically glued them inside a 90degree plank assembly to get something that would make a solid corner assembly. It wastes space but makes a good cabinet. Some of the bent ply was for an inside corner of the U shaped dinette. Those were a terror to veneer!

Actually, gluing planks together should be feasible for the short pieces, and won't be very expensive to try and fail. I don't think I can get a straight piece long enough for the bulkhead walls, but the 15" pieces should work. I like this idea!

[MattB]

Originally Posted by goshawks00

Looks familiar...what radius?

The curved plywood is 3" radius, I am making my own 1.5" radius pieces needed. No one seems to make the small ones. For nearly $200 I could get a router bit that would do it, but I can afford to fail with my current technique about 200 times and still be money ahead.

[MattB]

One thing I have learned in studies and career is that there are no optimal solutions, only tradeoffs. So it is with the lavatory design. I had to switch the positions originally planned for the shower and lavatory for space and window considerations, and try as I might, I can't get the toilet and originally planned black tank to line up the way I want.

So, I am going with a custom, above floor black tank of my own design. I figured out how to make one, and so designed one with a little over 16 gallon capacity. It takes volume now in the lavatory above the floor, and requires some extra work, but there are some good things too. I can use the tank I ordered for another project, and it creates some space under the floor for other things to accommodate the plumbing.

I am a little concerned with the hourglass shape and a chokepoint, but I think a rinse valve will address that just fine.



The cabinet was another matter, in order to accommodate a sink and the wheel well, and the toilet. I found a rectangular sink from Ikea that will allow me to keep keep the countertop in a rectangular shape and only 12" deep. A little heavy, but I think it will fit the decor well. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/lillang...hite-70207144/

This simplified the design of the sink cabinet. I planned on putting in sliding doors in the face for storage, and after spending a couple hours designing a TP holder space, I think I have it, with a fairly simple approach. I tried 12 ways to Sunday to fancy it up, and verify access and ergonomic considerations with the toilet, but simple proved best. One can only spend so much time in a mockup closet in a trailer sitting on a milk crate decorated to replicate a toilet.

The one feature that I really like is the way I found to incorporate the quarter round design into the cabinet to cover the wheel well. In this case the quarter round runs horizontal instead of vertical, but I think gives it a great vintage look. I need a better picture of it.




Eventually, I have one more trick in mind to hide the vent pipe and an electrical run, but haven't finalized that.

[MattB]

I found these hubcaps some time ago, and didn't know if they would even fit. Looks like they will, but I also wanted to see if they would clean up OK. I needed a break from working on cabinets.

Half way through the first one.


The other one for comparison.


A few minor dents that I expect to come out with a little more work.


And they indeed fit. The trailer does look better.

[goshawks00]

Originally Posted by MattB

I found these hubcaps some time ago, and didn't know if they would even fit. Looks like they will, but I also wanted to see if they would clean up OK. I needed a break from working on cabinets.



Half way through the first one.

Attachment 366542



The other one for comparison.

Attachment 366543



A few minor dents that I expect to come out with a little more work.

Attachment 366544



And they indeed fit. The trailer does look better.

Attachment 366545

Here is an original set on the Flying Cloud

[goshawks00]

Originally Posted by goshawks00

Here is an original set on the Flying CloudAttachment 366626

They need to be cleaned up but they are newly chromed, and are diamonds when clean

[MattB]

Originally Posted by goshawks00

They need to be cleaned up but they are newly chromed, and are diamonds when clean

Nice, I have my eye out for a few more sets for other trailers. Believe it or not, I found two for my 58 that has 14.5" rims, just need two more.

[MattB]

Probably my last update for some time as I work through the final versions of everything. Final mockup of the bed going to four smaller drawers rather than just two wider ones. SWMBO liked the idea of smaller drawers. One of the nice things about a mockup is the fact that prettiness doesn't really matter, so when the knot in my scrap wood broke the top rail, I just tacked it together with another piece.



The headboard and footboard are really on their fourth or fifth fundamental design change. Because the butt against flat surfaces on the forward end I didn't see a point in trying to radius corner the front of them. I scrapped the idea of an medial shelf under the top of the headboard, in favor of a design cue suggested by SWMBO and her desire for more storage underneath the headboard lid.

I will probably slightly reduce the number of horizontal supports under the bed but make them a little larger, and will add some horizontal cleats for support to flat shelf of the bed. The idea is not to waste space. Finally, looking at the ergonomics of the piece I realized two things: 1) I can't put this whole thing together in one piece and then drop it into place. 2) I need to put in the diamond plate for the trunk before the wood goes in.

By far, the item that took the longest was custom fitting the flat face of the head and foot boards to match the curve of the back corners of the trailer. There just is not an easy way to hold the curve template I have, so it is a lot of back and forth to check fit, then mark, and adjust with the jigsaw and bench sander.




The number of ongoing changes to this so validates the need for full mockups that it is hard to describe. Continually shocking on how much there is to learn. Fascinating to think that in these two boards exist the new bed.