Tale of a '55 FC Whale Reno

[Bubba L]

Jakattack, looks like I may need to replace a few small segments of vertical c channel. Looks like a PO replaced some outer skin and replaced (possibly bent) c channel with some homemade pieces. We have to replace some of the outer skin anyway, so good opportunity to correct the channel. How come it took me 6 months to get to this point and you 3 weeks. You'll be building cabinets in no time. Looking good. Bubba

[Jakattack]

Originally Posted by Bubba L

Jakattack, looks like I may need to replace a few small segments of vertical c channel. Looks like a PO replaced some outer skin and replaced (possibly bent) c channel with some homemade pieces. We have to replace some of the outer skin anyway, so good opportunity to correct the channel. How come it took me 6 months to get to this point and you 3 weeks. You'll be building cabinets in no time. Looking good. Bubba

Ha! I should mention in my former life I was a design/build GC in Washington and California and would build restaurants, coffee shops and more, even worked on close to 70 McDonalds... and I studied mechanics and hotrod customization in school.... and I designed and built high end custom furniture for the past several years... I've been very fortunate to work with my hands and get paid well for it.

Plus this is only phase one of the master plan, I only need to get the trailer ready for travel not for camping. So I'm only doing the bare essentials like making it road worthy and weather proof. Living up in Alaska is nice but so expensive for shipping anything I need to really get this project done, so I'm moving to California [emoji41]

[56 Flyg Cld]

Hi Bubba, I've been following your posts with great interest. Working on the frame right now, installing the same axle as yours. I have a couple questions for you. How did you get the height to make the shock bracket, bottom self explanatory but center to center measurements for the bolt hole on top ?Did you end up with the axle right at the bottom of the frame or is there about a 1/4" gap there? Thanks for any insights you can give me !

[Bubba L]

Originally Posted by 56 Flyg Cld

Hi Bubba, I've been following your posts with great interest. Working on the frame right now, installing the same axle as yours. I have a couple questions for you. How did you get the height to make the shock bracket, bottom self explanatory but center to center measurements for the bolt hole on top ?Did you end up with the axle right at the bottom of the frame or is there about a 1/4" gap there? Thanks for any insights you can give me !

Dirk, I used the Monroe 555003 Gas Magnum RV Shock that Colin recommended. Being the bottom point of attachment is a given, I extended the bracket vertically where the centerline of the holes were 14" apart. I inserted the bolt at the top where the head was against the wheel well. It's pretty tight fitting, but can remove the tire in the future and change out the shocks. When I installed the axle, I did drop below the frame 1/4" to 1/2" to allow for the upward crest of the tube camber. I have room to slide the center section of belly pan in above the axle tube when the time comes. I won't have propane lines aft of the axle, so there wasn't a concern there. Wait until you get to the belly pan install, more fun than you can imagine. On the belly pan, it's not how many square feet per day, it's how many days per square foot. Good luck and let me know if I can help. Thanks, Bubba

[islandtrader]

Just started reading your build...and as with most threads yours is a wealth of knowledge. Since I am a few months behind your progress I find your information a wealth of knowledge ...

Question in post # 53 you said "We measured the corners and determined the radius to be about 22.5”.The outside width was 90”.Once the shell was off the chassis, we were able to verify width/length dimensions by measuring the front/back crossemembers and the outer edges of the outriggers."

I must be missing something. When I took my shell off end to end of the main outriggers are only 85 inches.

Even though you already did your radius... this is how I got mine...

[Bubba L]

Originally Posted by islandtrader

Just started reading your build...and as with most threads yours is a wealth of knowledge. Since I am a few months behind your progress I find your information a wealth of knowledge ...

Question in post # 53 you said "We measured the corners and determined the radius to be about 22.5”.The outside width was 90”.Once the shell was off the chassis, we were able to verify width/length dimensions by measuring the front/back crossemembers and the outer edges of the outriggers."

I must be missing something. When I took my shell off end to end of the main outriggers are only 85 inches.

From what I understand, not all '50s chassis were exactly the same dimensions. Our '55 measured 60" from outside to outside of the main frame members. The outriggers extended 15" past the outside of the main frame members. Once we removed the shell, I measured from the lower, outer edge of the wheel wells and confirmed the 90" dimension. When we ordered our axle from Colin, he made the comment that our chassis was wider than typically found on the '55 Flying Clouds. As far as the 22.5" radius for the corners, I had read on the forums that a 22 inch radius was a good place to start on determining what the shell would fit if you didn't have the original floor to use as a pattern. We found that 22.5" radius worked. When we completed the subfloor, we dropped the shell on to verify the corners and width. All fit well. It seems that not all the '50s Airstreams were exactly alike. I guess that's what makes them so unique and interesting. Hope this helps clear up any confusion and good luck on your project. Bubba

[Bubba L]

After many weeks of belly pan hell, we finally had some success; I will describe what worked for us. It would have been an easier job if we had flipped the frame rotisserie style; however, we already had a lot of weight with the floor, axle and wheels, so decided against it.

My belly pan design is to go around the perimeter with a 2' wide piece of aluminum crimping into the C-channel, forming the banana wrap and covering the bottom just past the main frame member. Later, I will add a flat middle section. This design allows me to work with a more manageable sized piece in areas that need to be formed and it gives me easier access to the middle should I ever have to drop the belly pan. For the perimeter, I use 4' wide 5052 .025 and cut it down to 2' widths. The old belly pan was in such bad shape, we could not use it as a viable pattern, but we did notice that one long piece of aluminum was used from the wheel well to a curved corner. The trick was to make a long relief cut where the belly pan needed to transition from the 4" thick banana wrap upward toward the 1.5" thick curved corner.

We worked one quadrant (wheel well to curve) at a time. We started by making a pattern out of corrugated aluminum jacketing because we had some and it was flexible. We were able to reverse the pattern for use on the opposite quadrant. Using straps and clamps to hold it up, we worked from the wheel well toward the curve. The underside had to be flat, the banana wrap smooth and there had to be sufficient material above the c channel to crimp over it. Once the straight part was formed we made the 8"-10" relief cut at the point the aluminum needed to transition upward towards the curve. As the front is raised towards the curve, one edge of the relief cut overlaps the other to allow it to bend upward without kinking. Holding the pattern against the curve of the frame, we marked the curve onto the pattern, then cut slits approx 3-4" apart to within 1/4" of the curve mark. These slits occurred around the curve and down the side to within 6 inches of the relief cut
.
Once the pattern was complete, we flattened it and cut the aluminum. We formed the banana wrap side curve by rolling it on a 4" pvc pipe.


We started placement by lining up the end of the belly piece flush with the wheel well outrigger then made sure the curve of the banana wrap extended 3/4" above the C channel (for crimping) and strapped and clamped it.

We worked our way towards the relief cut making sure the underside was flat and the edge extended above the C channel. We then raised the curved portion (overlapping the relief cut sides) and marked the aluminum at the bottom of the plywood subfloor where the curved bend would occur. Then we cut the slits, to within 1/4" of the bend line, around the curve at 3-4" intervals. The slit marks could have been transferred from the pattern, but we found it worked best to redo them on the aluminum. As we lifted the curved sections with the tabs cut, the tabs would overlap each other and we clamped them to the C channel.

At this time, we put some pop rivets in the relief cut to hold it together. We then clecoed the underside to the frame members and started back at the wheel well crimping the edge over the c channel. Sometimes it was necessary to trim the aluminum to 3/4" over the c channel so that it would crimp. The crimping was done using a rubber mallet to get it started, a hammer and block of wood, then sheet metal vice grips.

We riveted the crimped C channel every 4 inches with 1/8" pop rivets. The underside was riveted using 3/16" pop rivets with a 5/8" head.

Note about strapping: to keep the c channel from bending we cut a piece of 3/4" plywood 1 3/8" wide and placed it in the channel at the strap location.

We wasted a lot of time and aluminum getting to this stage! Hope this helps someone else.

[jjmtb]

Incredible information. Thanks for the pics and sharing. I will be starting my belly pan soon. I will be back for reference.

[utahredrock]

Thank you for documenting your amazing project so well. Just discovered this thread and subscribed. Fantastic craftsmanship!

My biggest takeaway for my '62 Safari is that I think I am going with a composting toilet, but I love reading about your much more extensive job. Good stuff!

[Bubba L]

jjmtb, to me, figuring out the belly pan was the most frustrating task we've tackled to date. When you start yours and you get to the frustration point, go camping for a few days and when you get back, a light will come on and you'll have it figured out. Good luck.
utahredrock, we plan on going with a composting toilet as well. Still need to do some research on the latest, greatest and most reliable model. Let me know what you go with and your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, Bubba

[islandtrader]

What I find interesting is why the crimping of the belly pan over the c-chanel?

My 56 just has the belly pan coming straight up on the c-chanel and maybe a two inches above . This is the original belly and not a replacement (it is shot and I will replace).

Nice job, but it seems like a crazy amount of work?

Also for others I found this thread interesting on how to do a belly pan.... go to post 23.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f476...-121084-2.html

[Bubba L]

islandtrader, i guess the main reason I'm crimping the belly pan over the C-channel is it made it easier to keep the curved area tight. Besides, what was left of the original was crimped over the channel and we thought we'd reinstall the same way. It is a pain to cut exact and crimp, but some of the 50s Airstreams were crimped and some weren't. If anyone out there has a theory on this, I would love to hear about the reasoning. I can just imagine trying to remove an old belly pan that's been crimped without removing the shell to get access. Thanks to Dflores who gave me the idea of strapping the belly pan sections in place with ratchet straps to hold it up until clecoed. Strapping helped.

[Aerowood]

It's my opinion it was done for ease of manufacturing.

[MattB]

Crimping over the c channel was definitely easier. And mine was also done that way from the factory.

It also gives you a way to leave the pieces a little too big and trim once in place.

I wish I had used the straps, but the small Cleco clamps were invaluable.

[DFlores]

Looking good Bubba

[mimiandrews]

I agree. Looking good!

[islandtrader]

Originally Posted by MattB

Crimping over the c channel was definitely easier. And mine was also done that way from the factory.

It also gives you a way to leave the pieces a little too big and trim once in place.

2 Things...one both of your models were 1955 and mine is a 56. So maybe they went the "easier" route.

Second thing...If you crimp I don't understand the second part of your quote...

These are really just general questions, as I am sure everyone will do it the way they think is the best or easiest. It is just so cool to get a different view on the same job or see how much non production line work was done way back then.

"Hey Joe" lets do this trailer this way and see what happens

[lonewolf1977]

When I see stuff like this, it makes me realize even more why I gave that job over to the pros. I admire those that accomplish it on their own!

[Bubba L]

I'm not sure what the purpose of the crimp is for, but it did allow us to leave panel a little long and trim to fit. Once we had the bottom flat and clecoed, we raised the curved edge above the C-channel. We made a 90 degree bend over the C-channel then trimmed the excess leaving 3/4" to crimp into the channel. Maybe to most this method is easier, but it wasn't for me. A pain in the butt. Also, looking at the way it was originally done on what belly pan we had left, the factory really sealed the crimp well inside the C-channel with the black sealant. Wondering if this method wasn't to protect the edge of the subfloor from any moisture that could leak in on the top or sides and travel down the inside of the outer skin to the channel. Sure seems like there would have been a purpose. Bubba

[Bubba L]

Before reattaching the frame to the skin, we lightly sanded and put two coats of a good exterior house paint on the subfloor to waterproof it. Since being outside in rain, the wood had checked some. Smith & Co, manufacturer of the Cold Penetrating Epoxy we used, recommended the exterior paint.

Over the weekend, we were able to lower/cleco the shell back onto the frame with some difficulty. We found the old, deformed ribs were preventing the shell from settling over the c-channel. After a couple attempts, I cut the ribs off 3/4" and used angle brackets (made from 1/8" aluminum strapping) to attach the ribs to the subfloor through the c-channel using rivets and #10 stainless steel panhead screws.


Then the remaining interior skins were removed (previously the lower skins were removed to access the c-channel). During original production, the center sections were buck riveted together and the resulting piece was fastened to the skin with pop rivets. We only drilled out pop rivets, so the remaining skins came out in 3 pieces: the 2 end caps and the middle section. Since we were going to have to remove and repair the front jalousie window, we removed it and used the opening to slip the roll of skin out.


Interesting finds:

We found a message handwritten on the back of the interior whale tail endcap reading "Don't give up Alex".
We theorize that Alex was a newbie having trouble assembling the endcap because in a section adjacent to the writing, we found a row of rivet holes that had been epoxy'd over - perhaps Alex's first attempt to get the segments to fit? We find these words to live by for any individual working on an old Airstream.


Also of note was how the original electrical connections were made in the wall cavity. We found multiple 4 way crimp connectors heavily bound with electrical tape and taped to the skin with masking tape.



Now I am eagerly watching for an answer to this question: how to proceed with the old black sealant covering interior seams of outer skin? Remove it? Coat over it? Leave it?


Thanks for any help or suggestions!
Bubba