Tale of a '55 FC Whale Reno

[Bubba L]

Photos attached:

1. shows welding complete and Por15's Metal Prep applied.
2. shows the 2 coats of Por15 Rust Preventative.
3. shows 2 coats of Por15 Top Coat complete to protect the Rust Preventative coat from UV Rays which gives me more time to leave the frame outside exposed.
4. shows gray water tank locations and shocks installed.
5. shows the original tongue jack rejuvenated.
6. shows how I will maneuver the frame with a scaffold jack caster. I have a base pad at the bottom of the jack that can be removed to insert the locking caster.

[mimiandrews]

Lookin' good! Very good!

[cole3444]

Great looking frame. Could you post a pic of how your spare tire rack turned out when you get time, I want to build one for my Sovereign. Thanks

[Bubba L]

cole3444 -
Here you go.
I made the framing out of 3/4" square tubing with 1/8" walls. I have about 12" clearance from the ground to the bottom of the rack. The dimensions accommodated the tires we will be using.
Also pictured are the front and back attachment points. The back hinge is a stainless steel all thread rod with nuts on each end to make it removable. The last picture shows a safety chain I added on our other trailer for added security.
If you need anything else, let me know
Good Luck!

[cole3444]

Bubba L,

Thanks for the great pics, my son should have no problem making one of these with your measurements you provided. Will fine tune the height and width to my Airstream and tire. Good luck

[Bubba L]

We completed the plumbing of the two 16 gallon gray water tanks on the '55. Because we will have no black tank (composting toilet) and because the bumper trunk we will add is only 4" deep, we wanted to put a macerator pump in the bumper trunk and eliminate the need for a 3" sewer hose to drain the gray tanks. We modified the input of a macerator pump with a 3" to 1.5" Fernco reducer; the output of the macerator will be modified to receive a garden hose. The manufacturer said the input reduction would not harm the pump, but might result in a loss of speed. Initially, we found the pump was sucking a lot of air due to the static flow of the tank side outlet was way less than what the pump wanted. We added another spin welded fitting to the bottom of the aft tank. Then, with 90s we connected back to the pipe going to the pump. With the bottom drain outlet, this allowed the two foot section of drain pipe to stay full of water. The pipe fills quicker and keeps the pump running more efficiently. We don't need to macerate anything in the gray water tanks, but it sure works well to pump water. We timed the emptying process with full tanks and were able to drain in about three minutes. The section of pipe coming out of the bottom will be against the bottom of the belly pan and strapped. Having the section of pipe below allowed me to place a street 90 with a water hose fitting and valve. In the event our pump goes out and we need to use gravity flow to empty the tanks, we can connect a water hose to the fitting and empty that way.

The forward gray tank has 2 top inlets on the streetside. The forward most inlet is for the galley sink drain; the other inlet is a vent that will travel within the bottom of the cabinetry and join with the aft tank vent (on top of aft tank) to travel up the closet and through the roof. The aft tank also has a side inlet to receive shower drain water. To eliminate the need for a P trap, a Hepvo waterless valve was installed inline. We successfully tested the shower configuration by filling the tanks via the shower drain.

In the photos you can see the process. Due to the flexion of the frame, we added several Fernco fittings. I'll also wrap the PVC with Prodex mainly to prevent chafing against the belly pan. Pictures show an overview of the plumbing, the macerator pump in a mockup of the bumper trunk, and the alternate gravity flow drain.

In the next couple of weeks we will be sealing the plywood subfloor and installing.

[Bubba L]

Since we won't have a black tank, we got a SeeLevel tank monitoring system for the battery and 2 tanks. Before the floor goes on, we wanted to test the placement of the gray tank sender panel (circuit board that adheres to the side of the gray tank) to 1) make sure it was far enough away from metal and 2) make sure vertical placement on the tank was accurate. The smallest SeeLevel sender panel (710JS) is made for a 4.5" deep tank. Since our tank was barely 4", we had to add a 1/2"x1/2" solid length of plastic on top of the tank so that the sender had a flat surface the length of the panel. We will have to router a slot in the bottom of the subfloor to compensate for this block. We cut the sender panel to its minimum length (about 4"), cut the Black Tank Tab off (we could only find a monitor reporting fresh and black tanks, not fresh and gray), and used painter's tape to temporarily affix the panel 1/4" above the bottom of the tank. We then connected the wires (battery to monitor and monitor to sender) and filled the tank to different levels to make sure the percentage displayed on the monitor accurately. We marked the sender's correct placement on the tank for when we will affix it permanently before the floor goes on. We went to this extreme because we've had experience with an incorrectly placed sender.

[goshawks00]

If you are using a composting toilet and you don't have a black tank, why are you installing a macerator pump?

[Bubba L]

Goshawks00- we went with the macerator pump for the 'gallons per minute', run/dry protection, 12 volt, and the hose connections. Other pumps had around 3 to 5 gpm ability whereas the macerator had over 10 gpm. Besides, we already had one that had never been used. Though we've met the nicest people at dump stations, we want to dump quickly and get on down the road. Thanks

[goshawks00]

Hmm gravity flows a 'x' amount of gal per min. through a 4/5" pipe so it takes me 8 minutes to empty 2-20 gal tanks. No extra pumping , no electric use and it takes 3 minutes longer. No sweat my life isn't take complicated and I'm not in that much of a hurry. That said I guess you will have bragging rights on how fast you can dump. Or until you have an electrical failure-- just sayin✌️

[Jakattack]

Some really cool ideas in here Bubba! Thanks for all the info!

[Bubba L]

Thanks Jakattack. If you have any questions, let me know. If I can't answer it, we'll find someone who can. Good luck.

[Bubba L]

The next step is subfloor and belly pan insulation. Before the shell was initially removed, we took multiple measurements on the inside.The existing subfloor was in bad shape and not able to use as a pattern.We measured the corners and determined the radius to be about 22.5”.The outside width was 90”.Once the shell was off the chassis, we were able to verify width/length dimensions by measuring the front/back crossemembers and the outer edges of the outriggers.When we reworked and replaced rusted crossmembers and outriggers on the chassis, it gave us the opportunity to place the new crossmembers where they would support the edges of the plywood subfloor in conjunction with the correct space for gray water tanks.
We had some ¼” masonite that we cut for a subfloor pattern to make sure all the crossmembers and outriggers supported the subfloor edges.The plumbing vents were marked and the pattern was used to cut the subfloor.The masonite pattern was also used to layout the interior walls/structures to make sure vents/drains were appropriately located and the bath was large enough.The subfloor was temporarily held in place with a few self tapping Tek screws.

We raised the shell and backed the chassis under for a test fit. Luckily, the corner radius was a good fit and the 90” out to out worked well.We were able to lower the shell and place a few clecos in the wheel wells to make sure all fit.I’m leaving the skin bracing attached until we drop the shell for the final attachment.

We sealed the subfloor with TotalBoat penetrating epoxy. A thinner can be added up to 100% by volume for added penetration.We used lacquer thinner to about 75% by volume.A half gallon kit was enough to totally coat all surfaces.

We decided to insulate the belly pan using 3” Owens Corning Foamular LT40 foam boards; we cut it to size before we permanently installed the subfloor. The LT40 states that this product is combustible and a protective barrier is needed.The ¾” plywood is considered by some a barrier, but we wanted an extra layer of protection.We placed Reflectix between the insulation and plywood.Reflectix has a Class A and Class 1 fire rating plus a water vapor transmission of .02.We tested a small section of the subfloor plywood with the Reflectix and insulation.

The sample burned for about 8 minutes. When it cooled, I peeled back the Reflectix and the plywood underneath seemed to be unaffected by the heat.I’m by no means an engineer.It may have been fine without the Reflectix, but I just wanted the added comfort of having an extra layer between the Foamular and plywood which was achieved with the Reflectix.

We pre-cut the insulation and used 3M spray adhesive to glue the Reflectix on the foam. There are several types of 3M spray adhesive, but only a couple that can be sprayed on foam or polystyrene.

The installation of the foam has to occur after the subfloor is in place due to the need for access from beneath to tighten the elevator bolt nuts. As we complete a segment, it is numbered and set aside.We are transferring the numbers to a sketch so I don’t get more confused.When we permanently install the subfloor, we can slide the segments into place from underneath and glue them to the bottom of the subfloor.Here, we are test fitting some of the segments between the frame and cross members.

We shaved the edges of the segments between the frame and the end of the outriggers. Hopefully this will make it easier to wrap the belly pan up to the C-channel and add a little support to the banana wrap.

Coming next………… attach the belly pan.

[Jakattack]

Very cool! Like what you did there with shaving the edge of the insulation to help with the belly pan installation

[Bubba L]

Thanks Jakattack-anything helps in getting that edge neatly wrapped. I think it will give a little support also. The front and rear corners will be a challenge.

[DFlores]

Wow, Bubba, that experiment of burning the foam and reflectix is pretty fancy stuff.

Renovations of these trailers are really getting high tech.

[Bubba L]

From what I have read, even though the plywood sub floor sheets abut over cross members, they have a tendency to move vertically so that the sheets are no longer flush. To prevent this from happening, I used carpentry biscuits to keep the sheets in alignment. I did not glue the biscuits to allow for expansion and contraction. In the photo, you can see 2-3 biscuits inserted into the edge of each sheet.



Airstream originally cut segments of C channel to form the corners and screwed them to the subfloor. I decided to kerf the C channel to make the curve in one continuous piece. The curved C channel was seated in a bead of NP1. Elevator bolts were added every 12" - 14" through the perimeter C channel into the frame/outriggers. Elevator bolts were also used where sheets butted together at the cross members as well as some in the shorter cross members at the corners. The thread of each elevator bolt was treated with a threadlocker to prevent the nut from vibrating loose.



I added backer rod and NP1 between the wheel wells and sub floor to seal the interior from moisture/air/bugs/etc.



Lastly, I did a test fit by lowering the shell onto the frame. The elevator bolt heads are recessed into the plywood about 3/16". At this stage, I filled the recessed bolt heads with a 2 part epoxy.
I have a question now - I have yet to figure out the best way to slide the bottom of the vertical 1.5" rib into the horizontal 1.5" C channel. Any suggestions?

[MattB]

Originally Posted by Bubba L

From what I have read, even though the plywood sub floor sheets abut over cross members, they have a tendency to move vertically so that the sheets are no longer flush. To prevent this from happening, I used carpentry biscuits to keep the sheets in alignment. I did not glue the biscuits to allow for expansion and contraction. In the photo, you can see 2-3 biscuits inserted into the edge of each sheet.

Attachment 285103

Airstream originally cut segments of C channel to form the corners and screwed them to the subfloor. I decided to kerf the C channel to make the curve in one continuous piece. The curved C channel was seated in a bead of NP1. Elevator bolts were added every 12" - 14" through the perimeter C channel into the frame/outriggers. Elevator bolts were also used where sheets butted together at the cross members as well as some in the shorter cross members at the corners. The thread of each elevator bolt was treated with a threadlocker to prevent the nut from vibrating loose.

Attachment 285104 Attachment 285105

I added backer rod and NP1 between the wheel wells and sub floor to seal the interior from moisture/air/bugs/etc.

Attachment 285106Attachment 285107

Lastly, I did a test fit by lowering the shell onto the frame. The elevator bolt heads are recessed into the plywood about 3/16". At this stage, I filled the recessed bolt heads with a 2 part epoxy.
I have a question now - I have yet to figure out the best way to slide the bottom of the vertical 1.5" rib into the horizontal 1.5" C channel. Any suggestions?

Attachment 285108

Bubba, looks like great progress. To answer your question about the vertical ribs: I just cut a small slot on the inside of the channel to allow the rib to settle as far as it needs to. I subsequently attached the ribs with L-brackets that will anchor them, but still allow a little flexibility. I will then trim the little flap that results on the inside of the c-channel. Notably, not all the ribs extended down far enough into the channel. My thread has a few pictures on the last couple pages, and​ I have a few more to update.

[Bubba L]

Thanks Matt. I'll take a look at the method you used. We are getting close to attaching the shell. First, insulate beneath the sub floor, belly pan, then drop the shell. Thanks for the insight.

[Jakattack]

Originally Posted by Bubba L

Lastly, I did a test fit by lowering the shell onto the frame. The elevator bolt heads are recessed into the plywood about 3/16". At this stage, I filled the recessed bolt heads with a 2 part epoxy.

I have a question now - I have yet to figure out the best way to slide the bottom of the vertical 1.5" rib into the horizontal 1.5" C channel. Any suggestions?



Attachment 285108

Hey Bubba, great progress as usual I'm about ready to drop my shell on as well. When I was talking with Colin about my project, one of the things he really stressed was the importance of leveling out your frame before you put the bellypan and frame back together since the frame does have some flex.

As for the c-channel I would agree to make a notch on the inside and I would say from the outside run a rivet that goes through the skin, the vertical rib, and the outside edge of the c-channel. Additionally I would add an L bracket at the base of each vertical rib with an elevator bolt through the subfloor.

From what I have seen on my shell when I was removing it, the vertical pieces where riveted to the c-channel and had an L bracket at each rib. Afterwards the outside skin was placed over the top of that.

Best of luck!