Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-05-2009, 06:12 PM   #183
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
Bob and I just finished working for the day. The front and rear floor are cut, but for some reason, the floor in front and rear was NOT at the same height as the rest of the floor. The gap at the end caps was abundant. We actually used a small jack on the rear of the trailer and raised it up a small amount. This not only fixed the gap in front, but in back as well. There is document info somewhere about the amount of flex in an Airstream frame, and I guess this is proof.

Pics later...we're starving and need to eat!

Steve
__________________

__________________
Streaming Soldiers Blog
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #184
Addicted to Aluminum
 
A-Merry-Can's Avatar
 
1959 18' "Footer"
1964 24' Tradewind
1954 29' Liner
Woodstock , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,015
Looking good, man! If you haven't already, make sure the frame is perfectly level and straight before you rivet the shell on. I've read a lot about people skipping that step and ending up with a droopy trailer after all the hard work. :-S

Once again, I'm glad to see you through the toughest part!

JP
__________________

__________________

8576
there's always room for one more!
A-Merry-Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 06:57 AM   #185
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
We have a free day to work Monday since it's a holiday. As long as rain doesn't hamper us that is. I bought 24 feet of Alclad 2024-T3 yesterday for $300 at a local shop. Turns out my second cousin runs the place. No discount, but Airparts was $3.25 a foot more plus shipping.

The plan is to remove the front panel, finish the front belly pan with it out, and then rivet it back into place. Then I want to add the front windw, and the side windows that I had rebuilt.

In another week I will be removing the large rear hatch on the back panel (Anyone need this?), and overlaying the panel. It should also give me enough scrap to redo my fender flares and rebuild the door within a door.

Steve
__________________
Streaming Soldiers Blog
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 07:40 AM   #186
Addicted to Aluminum
 
A-Merry-Can's Avatar
 
1959 18' "Footer"
1964 24' Tradewind
1954 29' Liner
Woodstock , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldiermedic View Post
We have a free day to work Monday since it's a holiday. As long as rain doesn't hamper us that is. I bought 24 feet of Alclad 2024-T3 yesterday for $300 at a local shop. Turns out my second cousin runs the place. No discount, but Airparts was $3.25 a foot more plus shipping.

The plan is to remove the front panel, finish the front belly pan with it out, and then rivet it back into place. Then I want to add the front windw, and the side windows that I had rebuilt.

In another week I will be removing the large rear hatch on the back panel (Anyone need this?), and overlaying the panel. It should also give me enough scrap to redo my fender flares and rebuild the door within a door.

Steve
That's a deal on the Aluminum. I paid way more than that when I reskinned my little guy.

On the hatch, does it look like this one? Mine has a big puncture in the side. I planned on fabricating a new one, but if you're is in good shape, I'll buy it from ya!

JP
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0597.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	88530  
__________________

8576
there's always room for one more!
A-Merry-Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 08:28 AM   #187
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
That's my hatch alright.

We can work it out over emails.

Steve
__________________
Streaming Soldiers Blog
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 09:22 PM   #188
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
Today is the day your mother warned you about. Xbob and I spent all day working, and have a $100 sheet of mostly wasted aluminum to show for it. We removed the front lower panel, and were working on the belly pan. I took the old belly pan and laid it on a new sheet of 5052. I cut the sheet with extra around the edge figuring that the excess would just tuck up in between the shell and c channel. We rivited it to the chassis below, and began to wrap the side. We started just front of the door, and moved forward. After we bucked three of the segments on, the lower panel started to ripple, and was permanently buckled.

I have looked over and over, but have not found an excellent thread that has good belly pan pictures step by step. Can anyone think of what we may have done wrong?

One thing to mention is that the original belly ban had a very small curve cut from it on each side near the flat section. The factory also used shorter spans of aluminum than the four foot section I was using
.
I hope to right this before Saturday since the trailer is sitting without a front panel now, and it open to the weather other than the small tarping that likely won't hold up to a gust of wind.
__________________
Streaming Soldiers Blog
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 12:44 AM   #189
Rivet Master
 
RichHog's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
1972 25' Tradewind
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,142
Images: 7
Belly Pan Photo

Anybody who takes a camera under a trailer and gets a good pic of the underside should get some of that left over chilli you guys made!
Good to see your workin on her!
R
__________________
RichHog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 07:18 AM   #190
Addicted to Aluminum
 
A-Merry-Can's Avatar
 
1959 18' "Footer"
1964 24' Tradewind
1954 29' Liner
Woodstock , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,015
PICS! post pics so we can see what you are talking about. I'm not clear whether it's the side or the belly that's buckling. Check out my thread around post 78. I had to redo the front part on mine twice to get it right. One thing I learned about the belly pan is smaller pieces is not a bad idea. A sheet of aluminum can only bend on one axis without relief cuts.

Whenever I get to my liner, I'm planning on running the belly from the side down to the frame on each side, and having a third piece that runs down the middle. That will make it easy to take that middle section out in the future, if an emergency arrises, AND the flat piece in the middle will much simpler to fit (plus it will cover any of the alignment issues that might come up from the side belly pieces.)

Send me your number. I'll give you a call on my way to my lunch meeting.

JP
__________________

8576
there's always room for one more!
A-Merry-Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 09:36 AM   #191
Rivet Master
 
Melody Ranch's Avatar
 
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,960
Images: 78
Send a message via Skype™ to Melody Ranch
need more info

You say....
One thing to mention is that the original belly ban had a very small curve cut from it on each side near the flat section. The factory also used shorter spans of aluminum than the four foot section I was using

Could those curves cut from each side actually be stress reliefs?

Pics help.

General question to the knowlwdge base out there....why cant we use '0" or "SO" (soft) aluminum sheet for the belly pan corner sheets? It would work better and the "softness" should not matter on the belly.
__________________
Melody Ranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 09:37 AM   #192
Rivet Master
 
3Ms75Argosy's Avatar
 
1975 Argosy 26
1963 24' Tradewind
Seattle , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,341
Images: 7
I do agree that pics would help. Are you using cleos to set the panel first prior to bucking? That would allow you to get the panel set right prior to the riveting. I do seem to remember that Utee and others have tucked the panel under the skin first, working from the curve of the front back towards the door. I also think that having longer tabs under the skin makes for a harder curve to bend, even with relief cuts put in. Both Frank and Marcus have a couple of shots of them making the belly pan.... I remember that it took Frank a couple of tries prior to it really "clicking." Keep at it!
Good luck!
Marc
__________________
3Ms75Argosy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 09:46 AM   #193
4 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
belly bobo

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can View Post
PICS! post pics so we can see what you are talking about. I'm not clear whether it's the side or the belly that's buckling. Check out my thread around post 78. I had to redo the front part on mine twice to get it right. One thing I learned about the belly pan is smaller pieces is not a bad idea. A sheet of aluminum can only bend on one axis without relief cuts.

Whenever I get to my liner, I'm planning on running the belly from the side down to the frame on each side, and having a third piece that runs down the middle. That will make it easy to take that middle section out in the future, if an emergency arrises, AND the flat piece in the middle will much simpler to fit (plus it will cover any of the alignment issues that might come up from the side belly pieces.)

Send me your number. I'll give you a call on my way to my lunch meeting.

JP
Steve,
Our problem started because we didn't make a relief cut right at the seam of the side panel and the curved front panel ... we can drop the pan and re-cut exactly the same as the old one complete with center tang. That leaves us a 2'+ filler panel ... or we could use the back half of the failed belly pan for the 2'+ filler.
Looked at the Ambassador and even though some of the belly pan is 3 layers thick in places AND patched there is a cut or panel seam at the start of each curve.
A-Merry-Can's page 6 of his thread shows his first try and it is as bad as ours!
Bob
Bob
__________________
Xbob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 03:26 PM   #194
Addicted to Aluminum
 
A-Merry-Can's Avatar
 
1959 18' "Footer"
1964 24' Tradewind
1954 29' Liner
Woodstock , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbob2 View Post
A-Merry-Can's page 6 of his thread shows his first try and it is as bad as ours!
ha! I never claimed to be an expert! Everything's easier the second time you try it, though.

JP
__________________

8576
there's always room for one more!
A-Merry-Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 08:20 PM   #195
4 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can View Post
ha! I never claimed to be an expert! Everything's easier the second time you try it, though.

JP

Yeah, but you went from a totally trashed end piece to a very decent one! With no info on how you got it right!
AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!
Bob
__________________
Xbob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2009, 11:25 PM   #196
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
Saturday, October 24, 2009

Another couple of days, and a few steps closer

Since my last post, Bob and I have worked a few times on the Flying Cloud. Our first step was to get the front and rear sub floor installed. We spent a few hours one morning taking measurements, and looking at the only piece of flooring that I was able to salvage from the original. By the end of the day, we had both front and rear curves cut and installed. We also installed a long piece of angle aluminum to act as the steel backing plate found in most Airstreams, but not found in the early 50's (at least not on mine).

The next order of business was the front belly pan and panel replacement. The original front panel looks like it had been in a jack knife with both front corners dented, painted, and had bondo filler. It had to be replaced. I took off the front panel first to make it easier to do the front pan.

Panel removed, and belly pan ready to put in place

I won't lie...it was a monster. We didn't have a special curved cut in the side of our version, and it completely effected the outcome. Our panel buckled multiple times no matter how we tried to work it, and we decided to call it a day. Bob and I both agreed to look over the forums again to see what we needed to do.


Bad buckling



Buckle in an overlap

After some research, it turns out that the small curves were essential to being able to bend it properly, and give relief. We were able to salvage most of the original piece of 5052 that we used, and will need only a small amount of beautification. It still took awhile, but we were able to get the front pan installed, and had minimal effects on the aluminum from our first attempt. We bent the new panel edges into place, and it fit with very minimal adjusting. We were stoked!


Bob lays the original panel over our first attempt.



Bob finishes the new belly piece (Notice the small curves cut on the rear edges)



Front belly pan at the A frame

While Bob was doing some work with the belly pan, I pulled out a nice new sheet of Alclad, and began laying out the new front panel. I traced the outline for the old sheet, and used a sharpie to hit all the rivet holes for drilling. We took a straight edge down the centers of the sharpie marks to ensure we had good markings on center. After we confirmed we were laid out well, I used a spring loaded punch to make a starting point for the drill bit.


Old on top of new to get a perfect cut



Checking out hole placement with the straight edge.



Starting rivet holes with a spring loaded punch

With the front panel drilled and ready for installation, we installed the front window frame back inside the opening. This would gave us some ribs to rivet to, and help the front curves hold the shape they needed to be in before we installed the panel. With the frame back in place, I decided to reinstall the piece of aluminum that I can only describe as a backing plate. This panel must have been used for rigidity.


Window frame and front ribs back in place.


Backing panel reinstalled

With the backing piece in, Bob and I grabbed the wobbly new front panel. To our surprise, the panel was very easy to bend around the front, and get into place. We placed a cleco in each window corner, and on at the edge of the 13 panel line of rivets. We proceeded to line up the holes on the front panel, and cleco them into place. One by one we pulled the clecos and buck riveted the panel into place.

Bob poses after getting the panel roughed in


I drilled the front while Bob pushed the backside with a piece of steel to prevent dimples.


Almost finished with the panel


Making sure the Clecos we re holding


The first in a long line of buck rivets

The front panel was stable and attached to the front ribs. We decided that we had enough time to rivet both sides of the panel to the 13 panel crown. We started working from the window to the outside with our drilling. The rivet holes in the 13 panels crown made it simple to follow. We placed a cleco after each hole was completed. Bob was still pushing on the inside with a piece of steel so we didn't dimple the skin. By now, a good friend of mine named Rob had arrived with his family for dinner, and helped us out. He would pull the cleco out of the hole before Bob and I bucket it in permanently. Every other rivet we moved to opposite side of the panel to prevent it from walking. Rob probably saved us 20-30 minutes of just picking up the cleco pliers every time we finished with a rivet. After a loud 25 minutes, we arrived at rivet nirvana.


Streetside front


Curbside front

We are hopeful that tomorrow we will have a chance to get the front window installed along with two other completed windows, and get the front panel riveted to the C channel.

Hope you enjoyed
__________________

__________________
Streaming Soldiers Blog
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1953, cloud, flying, restoration, vintage, flying cloud


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
21' flying cloud 1953 Richey Member Introductions 4 09-04-2008 12:02 PM
1953 Flying Cloud Pics 1953 Flying 1950-1955 Flying Cloud 18 11-24-2007 10:14 AM
1953 21' flying cloud t.gray 1950-1955 Flying Cloud 123 02-14-2007 02:54 PM
1953 Flying Cloud Windows Bobbybl Windows & Screens 0 06-24-2005 02:18 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.