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rwrussom · 08-09-2008, 08:21 PM

I started out asking about the potential for developing a spec custom renovation business on this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f348...key-43873.html

I thought I might get more input here.

Here is the first of a few plan ideas I have been playing with. I'll have the others up shortly. It is based around a 26' trailer. This idea sort of started the concept of putting together projects as specs. I was looking to build one as an office, living area. I welcome your thoughts.

vswingfield · 08-09-2008, 08:26 PM

I like it. I can see the Rat Pack sitting in the booth in front. Maybe even an oval table.

Don't forget the windows and wheel wells in your bulkhead placement.

3streams · 08-09-2008, 08:45 PM

Very cool- although you will find few high end clients willing to pay top dollar will even consider a wet bath. Wheel wells and windows are important because those are things you have to work around when using a vintage unit. Look through Airstream Archives to take inspiration from all models and years and blend floorplans together- thats what we do.

CaddyGrn · 08-09-2008, 10:29 PM

I like it too... I would also consider making a side view so one can see overhead storage. My first reaction to your plan, is it is nice ~ but where is the storage?

A interesting thread would be to ask folks how their floor plans differ from the "original"... might get good ideas!

Mrs. NorCal Bambi traveling in S Tardis ~ from the Great State of Jefferson
My Blog: Yreka History

Bob Thompson · 08-10-2008, 12:04 AM

Ok, so I'm the desenting voice. I have problems with the whole thing from bed to wet bath to desk to booth seating to round corners on everything. I'll start with scale, things don't seem to be drawn to scale. A short queen bed is 60x75. Round cornered mattresses are very difficult to come by so this one will have to be custom
made of foam. Three cornered beds are almost impossible to make, and be assured the person sleeping in the most aft position is going to hate crawling over to get in and out. Better to have a pedistal queen with access around 3 sides. A wet bath is a big turn off. Lose the sink and make a step in shower. If you want a sink, you can put one accessed from the hall for brushing teeth, hand washing, etc. The commode is going to have a hard time getting the drain pipe to the black water tank and miss the wheel well. A desk is very optional. You could easily put a swing out support for a laptop in lieu of dedicating a whole bunch of space to a desk. Comfortable evening seating is essential. Booth seating is OK for meals, but is miserably uncomfortable for evenings and rainy days, especially while watching TV. I kept a decent RV only 3 months after discovering I was miserable in the evening because I couldn't get comfortable while watching evening TV after dinner. The amount of seating at the booth doesn't seem to be proportional to the number occupents. Better to make room for some seriously comfortable recliners, and anticipate fewer people. The number of occupants is a good place to start when developing the floor plan. The wardrobe is fine as is the nightstand. The kitchen is ok except for the refrigerator goes all the way to the floor (you've backed it up to a wheel well) plus service access to the frig is from the exterior at floor level. In a 26 footer, you want easy access to everything and luxury. In my opinion this floor plan may be luxurious but it's style over substance. It reminds me more of a 20 footer floor plan. Getting things to real world scale will help. This plan is a good exercise to learn the various requirements so I expect the next edition will solve a lot more problems.

These are only my opinions based on the way I use my own 25 footer. Others may have different priorities and think it is great.

If you want to see how a pedistal queen can work, or comfortable seating, or spaciousness, check out my photos, (I even show a fold down computer desk): http://www.airforums.com/photos/brow...00&userid=3264

Bob Thompson · 08-10-2008, 09:42 AM

Some of the things you will need to come to grips with is: "what items are need to be "off the shelf" and what items are custom. To be cost effective, you're going to want to use as many off the shelf items as possible, such as Select Comfort short queen mattress (comfort and light weight), shower stall, appliances, vent hoods, most light fixtures, etc. Also, curved corners for walls are "trendy" but how are you going to make them? perhaps you have a bending press which can make them. If that is the case, then all radii need to be the same so you can reuse the same jig over and over. One thing is for sure, it will be time consuming because you can't cut it on a table saw. Using the same radii will also help when it comes to making shelves, etc. which back up to these curved wall segments. You will be able to use the same templates to mark and cut each item. Just some thoughts on "how to" make it happen.

rwrussom · 08-10-2008, 11:00 AM

Vaughan - this is a very generic exploration, no question the shell structure will influence some refinement.

3streams - I agree with the wet bath issue. This started as a design for my personal use. After long stretches on sail boats, the wet bath and the bed layout did not concern me. I do acknowledge I am probably in the minority.

CaddyGrn - This was the first of a few ideas I have been toying with. I will throw up some more soon. I do have 3d models coming together. The one for this layout is almost there. That should help for the interior view.

Bob - Thanks for the critique. Scale should be good. Bed is 60x75+. Wrap around seating appears a little shy in seat depth by a couple of inches. I had corrected this in my 3d model but forgot this early layout had that off. Again, this plan was really started for my use as a mobile living, work space. All your input applies just the same. Knowing how others will perceive some of my ideas is what this is about. Thanks for all the input.

rwrussom · 08-10-2008, 11:02 AM

Here is another one to chew on.

Randy

CaddyGrn · 08-11-2008, 12:00 AM

Hello again,

In your plans ~ you might put in a description of things that are important to you for your lifestyle. For example. The baths in both layouts are nice and appear pretty big to me! (Remember, I have a 63 Bambi...) I would make the bath as small as possible to give more room to actual living area. If one is camped in a full service RV park, most of the nicer ones have roomy private showers and oodles more hot water.... if you are planning on living in it... then you might want more room!

I liked the curved sink in your first drawing... I have seen some folks who have done something similar in their A/S and it is very nice for the cook. We have planned something somewhat similar in the 1955 Flying Cloud for the sink.

Where will your heating, etc. be placed?

Keep the ideas coming. Interesting.

Mrs. NorCal Bambi traveling in S Tardis ~ from the Great State of Jefferson
My blog: Yreka History

I liked the big desk and room for your laptop in the first model. I lived and worked for a year in a 5th wheel, and we had a make shift desk for my computer, having the space for my computer was a prime factor for me.

As for watching TV... I watch TV at home... when I go camping TV isn't usually in the plans.... occasionally we put in a DVD and watch a movie on our laptop...

If you plan on using or traveling a good distance, then good storage is vital.

rwrussom · 08-12-2008, 06:26 PM

Taking into consideration the comments, I thought I would massage the plans before presenting other ideas.

The bath in both cases was in-line with AS European models for a full dry bath, so I got rid of the wet bath completely. made the seating more accommodating and clarified and added storage.

Bob-no luck with the walk around bed, Plan 2 revision should be able to have that option.

I would love to hear peoples opinions on a walk around bed. I am getting the sense that it is a very desirable feature even if you give up more useful living area.

Foiled Again · 08-12-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwrussom

I would love to hear peoples opinions on a walk around bed. I am getting the sense that it is a very desirable feature even if you give up more useful living area.

Showing is better than telling. Go to a local airstream dealer, take two flat sheets and some sheet garters for the corners. Make the bed in a corner bed unit! those have access from two sides. It's a sweaty time consuming chore for a task that should take 5 minutes. Perhaps if you could come up with a COMFORTABLE mattress that folded up on the ends so you could get the sheets tucked in.

Paula

InsideOut · 08-12-2008, 07:08 PM

One other consideration is the location of windows...looks to me there might be windows in the areas shown with "full-height storage". Do you have a specific trailer in mind for a "donor shell"?

Shari

rwrussom · 08-12-2008, 07:14 PM

Another look at Plan 2

rwrussom · 08-12-2008, 07:16 PM

Inside Out - Yes I agree, would have to work around the side window in the back

76sovereign · 08-12-2008, 07:38 PM

I love the curved couch. Nice plan..

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwrussom

I started out asking about the potential for developing a spec custom renovation business on this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f348...key-43873.html

I thought I might get more input here.

Here is the first of a few plan ideas I have been playing with. I'll have the others up shortly. It is based around a 26' trailer. This idea sort of started the concept of putting together projects as specs. I was looking to build one as an office, living area. I welcome your thoughts.

3streams · 08-12-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Showing is better than telling. Go to a local airstream dealer, take two flat sheets and some sheet garters for the corners. Make the bed in a corner bed unit! those have access from two sides. It's a sweaty time consuming chore for a task that should take 5 minutes. Perhaps if you could come up with a COMFORTABLE mattress that folded up on the ends so you could get the sheets tucked in.

Paula

In our '05 International CCD 25' we had a corner "queen" that was a PIA to make!!!!! Most of our vintage trailers have twins and are much easier to make- still not as easy as a walk around. I covet a '70s era 30' so I can have a walk around queen- my husband prefers the more vintage units- but then again- he doesn't make the beds!!

utee94 · 08-12-2008, 09:58 PM

April, with the way you cruise through trailer renovations, I have a hard time believing you can't come up with a walk-around queen!

What is your Cruiser layout? The one I almost bought had a side wet-bath and twins in the back. You could convert those rear twins to a walk-around "queen" relatively easily with yours and Andy's skills.

Edit: Just noticed you now have a '56 Overlander, when the heck did that happen?

rwrussom--

I really like the creativity, and personally I love the curved booth you designed, and I like front dinettes in general. It just depends on what you want to do with your trailer, but I have no desire to have a sofa/gaucho or recliners in the front lounge area. I consider those to be a tremendous waste of space for my purposes and they don't suit my needs at all. Others obviously disagree, and that's the point-- it's a very personal thing.

However, I do believe you can come up with a spec design that appeals to a large audience, just keep in mind that many items will be custom and the price will skyrocket. It will be very difficult to see the benefits of economies of scale in this type of application, no matter how popular your products might become.

Anyway, I love the ideas, and keep 'em coming!

Good luck,
-Marcus

CaddyGrn · 08-12-2008, 11:03 PM

Hello again,

You asked about input about the walk around bed... in a perfect world that is a great thing to have! If there are two folks sleeping in the bed, one can get up without crawling over the other to get out of bed... it is also MUCH easier to make the bed. But, the sacrifice is one loses a lot of space for other things... In our Bambi we have both front and side gouchos... it makes for great seating when there are two of us, or 6 of us! It is a pain to make the beds each night, but that is the price we pay for such a tiny trailer!

I also think if folks are tall, a walk around bed is much better. Otherwise one person needs to be kinda short to fit in the beds with the curved corner.

I like the variety of front living space you have come up with. I like being able to sit at a table, and the choice of sitting in a chair or on a couch. If I only had a table choice I might find it crowded.

I still think storage is key. That is my biggest concern when choosing a layout. That, and being able to have room to move around. Also, if the trailer is designed for a couple ~ it is nice if the bedroom area can be shut off or private. That way if one partner is a early riser the other has a chance to sleep in. Or, if you have kids and they sleep up front you might have a little privacy.

Keep the designs coming!

Mrs. NorCal Bambi traveling in S Tardis ~ from the Great State of Jefferson
My blog: Yreka History

KeithC · 08-12-2008, 11:21 PM

Hi rwrussom,

As design and marketing are usually targeted to a specific buyer segment, and from your previous designs that do not have bunk beds/childrens space, I would assume you are designing for a single person or an older empty nest couple.

From a purely marketing standpoint, my wife and I are in the: 50's age group, empty nest couple, who plan on using our RV for our personal usage.

Here are a few things my wife and I critique while touring RV shows:

1) I am 6'3", even with dome showers, current RV's are a squeeze for me to fit.
If I were designing a solution, the entire bathroom area would be a water tight designed for a two person shower at once, with a seating area.

2) A lot of current RV's have a kindergarten sized toilet. At 6'3", setting on the toilet with my knees up around my chin is no fun. I would design a toilet for adult sizes people.

3) We entertain friends and family outside, under our awning. That is why we are camping.

We would want our RV to feature an attach outside grill, table, lights, to allow us to enjoy the great outdoors.

The "U" shaped interior entertainment areas in your design are not primary use areas for us. My wife does not want people going in and out of our limited interior space.

3) My wife at home sleeps on the (left) side of the bed. At 2 Am, if she has to go to the bathroom, she does not want to crawl over me or down to the end of the bed, to go to the facilities. That is a deal killer.

Foiled Again · 08-13-2008, 09:23 AM

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...eam-44344.html

If you haven't looked at this thread you ought to!

and then there's this one
http://www.airstreamclassifieds.com/...ct=6041&cat=16

with more info at www.customairstream.com - holy mackeral if he didn't replace the frame, all the axle upgrades in the world won't keep this from bending like a pretzel!

Paula