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Micag · 09-16-2014, 12:31 PM

We are stripping the interior of our new to us 76 Trade Wind 25 because of leak issues,mice issues, dents and to re-insulate the walls and ceiling. There is a small amount of floor rot caused by the leaks, which will be replaced.

It made me wonder if I drilled holes through the bottom of the wall, while its accesable and through the plywood to the pan area and put a caulked flared tube every few inches, it would eliminate any water from ruining the new flooring. Why didn't they do this at the factory?
Thanks,
Mike

Foiled Again · 09-16-2014, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micagadams

We are stripping the interior of our new to us 76 Trade Wind 25 because of leak issues,mice issues, dents and to re-insulate the walls and ceiling. There is a small amount of floor rot caused by the leaks, which will be replaced.

It made me wonder if I drilled holes through the bottom of the wall, while its accesable and through the plywood to the pan area and put a caulked flared tube every few inches, it would eliminate any water from ruining the new flooring. Why didn't they do this at the factory?
Thanks,
Mike

My dear Mike you have just posed the $64,000 question (and you're over 60 if you can remember when that was a lot of money... and a TV quiz show).

Answer short and simple - it's labor intensive. (But it's probably less labor intensive than being paranoid about caulking - and having spots marked every 8 inches on the border of the floor where I do moisture tests. Last month I got my rotund self down and slid around with the moisture meter in hand until I opened the little cabinet under the closet where the water pump hides... and stuck my hand and head way in to do the reading and my hand caressed by the biggest hairiest spider I ever saw! An hour later I was still shaking.

I'm very worried about the darned diamond plate they put in over the plywood in the bedroom. Not a brilliant idea. Might just have to tear it out.

Paula

Micag · 09-16-2014, 02:02 PM

It's great to have all the insulation out and see the obvious leaking spots (over the windows and along the door). 3m 5200 and 116 vulcum will fix that! It's after its closed up and down the road, its probably inevitable there will be a damp discovery or two, so i'm going to try my idea.
Thanks for your perspective,
Mike

dkottum · 09-16-2014, 03:36 PM

Because the water seeps in slowly and spreads between the plywood subfloor and finish floor by capillary action the drains won't make any difference. I have thought about leaving a 2-3" perimeter open (no finish flooring) all around the trailer to thwart the capillary action, but haven't thought enough about it to come up with a decent looking material to fill that gap.

The other thing on my mind is taking out the vinyl floor completely and lay very thick tatami mats like in old Japanese homes over the subfloor. Not fastened down so they could be removed to shake out and sweep the subfloor as needed. Any of the inevitable leaks will be able to dry out instead of being trapped under the vinyl.

dkottum · 09-16-2014, 03:43 PM

Paula, I use a moisture meter probe as well. In our Airstream the diamond plate is not fitted tightly to the wall. If you take out a few of the little screws holding the plastic edge trim, there is room to probe the subfloor.

Also those little trim screws are a leak test in themselves. When you pull them out and the threads are corroded, then they have been or are wet. There has been a leak there and most probably will be again.

Micag · 09-16-2014, 03:47 PM

Maybe I'm not being clear, with a hole drilled and then a tube with a flange that can be caulked it seem no wicking can happen. Some areas will be easier than others, but if I'm careful and maybe add some aluminum where there is a gap it should turn each section into a little tray with a drains. I'm thinking of overlaying Russian birch over the subfloor, if I do I can't have any leaks.
Thanks,
Mike

dznf0g · 09-16-2014, 03:52 PM

Mike, in theory it would work, IMO. But you would need a sure seal between the outer skin and the c channel; the inner skin and and the c channel; as well as an absolute watertight c channel trough.

dkottum · 09-16-2014, 03:55 PM

I think the moisture will slip right around the little drains and they will have no water in them, because the capillary action cannot happen in the opening of the drains.

Micag · 09-16-2014, 04:37 PM

Looks like a bench test would be in order! You're right dkottum water tension would rule the day. Maybe a pipe cleaner or some fiberglass sheathing we have for wiring would work.
Mike

Toddzilla · 09-16-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micagadams

I'm thinking of overlaying Russian birch over the subfloor, if I do I can't have any leaks.
Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I plan on using Baltic Birch ply for all my cabinets in my rebuild. I would reconsider using it for the floor though, birch is horrible when it comes to water. It breaks down very quickly.

Todd

Micag · 09-16-2014, 04:54 PM

Todzilla, It at least has water proof phenolic glue, and I have this delusion that I can keep it dry. I thought it would nice under armstrong marmorette.

Toddzilla · 09-16-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micagadams

Todzilla, It at least has water proof phenolic glue, and I have this delusion that I can keep it dry. I thought it would nice under armstrong marmorette.

I know it's more expensive, but I'd use marine grade. Well, I did use marine grade. :-D

Wingeezer · 09-16-2014, 05:13 PM

Can anyone tell me why AS do not use some sort of man made composite food that is impervious to rot??

We bought a used (2005) AS about 6 years ago and I like it very much - I would consider at this stage buying an brand new AS now for our last few years of RV'ing, but will not,for two reasons - filiform and wooden floors!

If they would solve one, I probably would reconsider, but to my way of thinking, the floor issue is the biggest.

All trailers leak sooner or later, and the water finds its way to the floor.

We have found a couple of leaks and I think ( I hope) I have stopped them before floor rot has happened, but I think it all too often happens that you don't realize you have a leak until the floor is rotten.

Is it just a cost saving measure on AS's part?

I am pretty sure they don't use plywood (or OSB) in airplanes! I think it is not uncommon to use an aluminum composite with an honeycomb aluminum core clad on each side with sheet aluminum.

There are other man made options that at least a couple of other RV manufacturers have used.

Are there reasons that the "Rolls Royce of trailers" does not provide something more rot-resistant other than cost?

May well be, but if so I have not heard.

If I were about to spend $120-$140k for a new 30' AS, - as I might, I don't really think I would blink an eye at spending a couple more k for a better floor if that is what it takes!

Anyone know the reason? (End of my pet peeve!! )

Brian

PS - filiform would bother me a lot too, especially if i bought a brand new trailer and it appeared within a year as has happened twosome folk.

But at least knowing about it, if I bought a new trailer, perhaps I would have a chance at keeping it in check if AS cannot find a solution! I'm sure they do try - at least I hope so!

Toddzilla · 09-16-2014, 05:31 PM

I actually looked into this, and the cost was prohibitive. $400+ per sheet.
Very strong and incredibly light and impervious to water, but you have to drill through and support from behind. It has zero screw holding strength.

SpiritAtBay · 09-16-2014, 05:47 PM

[QUOTE=dkottum;1511425
The other thing on my mind is taking out the vinyl floor completely and lay very thick tatami mats like in old Japanese homes over the subfloor. Not fastened down so they could be removed to shake out and sweep the subfloor as needed. Any of the inevitable leaks will be able to dry out instead of being trapped under the vinyl.[/QUOTE]

fascinating idea. you would have to have the tatami custom made... (Is that even possible in the USA?)

my ex and I had some custom mats made while we were stationed in Okinawa. (To fit a raised platform for some furniture hubby built that was a blend of East/West.)

while tatami are removeable..they really aren't very "shakeable" as they are heavy and stiff. You would HAVE to be able to let them dry thoroughly in sunshine if they did get wet, otherwise you would have mold big time.

the decrease in over head height might be noticeable. (traditional mats are close to 2 inches thick.)

lastly, the smell of fresh cut straw is heavenly. Even after 20 years, the scent was still there and was wonderful.

Wingeezer · 09-16-2014, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I actually looked into this, and the cost was prohibitive. $400+ per sheet.
Very strong and incredibly light and impervious to water, but you have to drill through and support from behind. It has zero screw holding strength.

Presume you are talking about the honeycomb composite stuff? I can imagine it would not hold screws well due to the nature of its construction.

But other companies have recently used other types of rot-impervious flooring although think at least one of them has now gone belly up - Evergreen I think?

Not sure if this - or other reasons caused their early demise! The product sound interesting to me and I was sorry to see them go under without really getting of the ground!

There must be a way!!

Brian.