'70 Caravanner restoration

[Jeremy9107]

Still waiting for help to put on belly skin and axles.... so tinkered around with cleaning up rust off windows. Used dremmel tool for tight spots and 150/220 grit sandpaper for other areas. Shined up enough for these eyes.



Was also able to replace the positioner guides. Most were so brittle they just fell apart when pulled out. Purchased months ago at Vintage Trailer Supply but see they only sell white now https://www.vintagetrailersupply.com...sitioner+guide



There are supposed to be thin washers on each side of the positioner guide arms, but many were missing. Replaced with 1/4" fiber washer from Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-4-in-x...7908/204276417. Also am missing several of the clips that hold the arm on. Where can I find those??

[Jeremy9107]

still dealing with alot of loose wires...



so labeled everthing coming out of wall so don't go crazy trying to figure out what goes to what like when did tear out.


all wires come out street side within storage area under bed. decided to put converter here and battery(s) will go here too (may have decided to put battery up front if had not already done wiring when it was advised). sectioned off to prevent damage and lifted converter off floor a bit to keep from getting wet.


this is where help is needed...
rugjenkins and dbj216 turned me on to the 60A Progressive All in One Converter https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...r-4000-series/. Refer to this thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f7/7...ml#post2062145.


It has a very simple 1 page installation booklet https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-co...glish-Only.pdf. But remain confused about how to connect. David, believe you are using this model so can you provide additonal help? This is an earlier post from you :
"Your fuse panel has four big wires to it; plus and minus from the battery, and plus and minus from the converter. To install, you will hook up a big positive lead and a big negative lead from the fuse panel to the converter. You will also hook up a ground wire to the converter. Then you plug the converter into the 115v AC outlet."

1) This unit has an integrated fuse panel with 12 circuits. But only 2 of them have a hot (red) wire attached, while the other 10 have only a black wire coming out. How do the 12V wires attach?
2) Where do the hot and neutral wires coming from the umbilical attach?
3) Do I need to ground this to the frame of the trailer?
4) Using this Marinco inlet and noticed 4 wire connections on the back. Where do each of those wires connect and what gauge should they be? Converter diagram only shows connections for 3 wires from AC in (hot=black, ground=green, white=neutral).



On earlier advise, am using 30A main breaker, 20A breaker reserved for A/C, 15A breaker for outlets, 15A breaker for fridge and 15A breaker reserved for microwave.

[rugjenkins]

I used 10 gauge wire to my marinco inlet. My inlet plug is 30amp and only has 3 wire connections. Yours is a 50 amp inlet which is why you have the extra red connection.
I haven't installed the converter yet. On the 120 side black to breaker and separate the white and greens on separate buss bars. On 12v black to fuse and white to return buss. Not 100% on the 12v as it's not installed yet. Others can chime in.

[dbj216]

Think of your converter as just another 12v power source like your battery is. The fuse panel doesn't really know if the power is coming from the battery or converter.

Mine has too connections. The big red cable, and the big black one. (Big like 10 gage wire.) The converter may have a 120V AC power cord coming out of it. Some converters are built to be hard wired, not simply plugged into an outlet. There is also a "chassis ground" connection for a copper ground wire to the chassis or body of the trailer.

Your new converter should have come with a simple wiring diagram. Or there is one on the internet.

David

[Jeremy9107]

rugjenkins. looked up installation directions for Marinco 60A inlet and bought 6 gauge wire per recommendations. Understand where black, green and white attach, but where does that extra red wire go? thanks for other suggestions on 120V. now understand need converter black wire to breaker and other AC circuits will wire to other breakers.

how does this thing ground? have read need to ground both the ground and neutral bar to chassis.

on 12V side, there are 2 heavier gauge wires with 30A fuses at the top of the fuse panel. was wondering what those were intended for? is one of these for the charge line from the umbilical?

David. Did receive a simple wiring diagram. But it is simple in every sense of the word. One page. Diagram on bottom half. Does not discuss 12V connections and difficult to tell where some of the wires are leading to.

Going to call Progressive tomorrow and have them walk through an install.

[dbj216]

The converter produces 12vDC from 120vAC. The output 12vDC connects between the converter and the fuse panel.

Here is a photo of my fuse panel. My converter is right behind it. The black wire connects to the battery ground, the red wire connects to the battery positive. The second red wire loops down and connects to the front of the converter.

David

[Jeremy9107]

Thanks David. Called Progessive Dynamics installation rep today. Realized that this converter is their Series 4060 (60 referring to 60 amp). When purchased in February thought that meant could get 50 amp service into it. Knowing nothing is tough. This model is for 30 amp service (the 60 amp refers to the converter/charger rating). Soooo.....contacting eBay seller. If they allow return, will get PD model 4560 :


Assuming they will not though, so will try to make this work.

The Marinco inlet is 50A. Can attach 30A service to 50A inlet with adapter :


What should be done with the extra (red) hot wire from the inlet? Cap it? Leave it out all together? Hook it up to circuit breaker? Hook it up to something else in converter?

Have no big AC draw in the trailer. No air conditioner. No microwave. No dishwasher. No clothes washer/dryer. No toaster. No hair dryer. So guess don't really need the 50A service now anyway, was just thinking ahead.

[Jeremy9107]

The PD installation manual is very short and the wiring diagram seems to lack detail. But maybe it makes more sense to those more experienced. Created this to help myself remember (and maybe it will help others).


The 12V circuits are not referenced and the grounding instructions are not mentioned at all.

Summarized wiring instructions from PD installation rep :
1) Shore line in - black to 30A breaker (if have 50A then black and red to same 50A breaker), green to green ground bus, white to white neutral bus.
2) Converter lines - black to 15A breaker, green to green ground bus, white to white ground bus
3) 12V DC fuse board - first 2 circuits are red wires and rated for 30A, the other circuits are black wires and rated for 20A. All incoming hot lines from trailer wire direct and grounds go to separate ground bus (this is not included, must purchase and attach separately)
4) Ground to chassis - AC green ground bus, DC distribution board (listed as BATTERY NEG. - on wiring diagram), DC accessories ground bus bar. Must use same gauge wire to ground to chassis as is used for each above. All 3 must have separate ground wires but can attach to same grounding bolt on chassis.
5) The negative terminal on the battery must ground to chassis also with same gauge wire as used for battery connection and must connect to separate grounding bolt than other 3 above.
6) Charge line from umbilical connects directly to battery

[steinVT]

These posts are very timely for me. I too have a Progressive Dynamics converter that I will be installing in a couple of weeks. I opted for the 45 amp variant and 30 amp incoming.

I agree the instructions are lacking. I especially love the "Detailed Wiring Diagram" all in black and white with hand drawn wires, the one you posted with color is much better. After thinking about it for a while, I think I have figured most of it out. One thing that threw me was connecting the AC Hot in (black) to the 30 amp breaker. Usually the power comes in from the back rail and out that connection. In this case we are using the 30 amp breaker "backwards" as it is supplying power to the back rail.

Regarding the 12 volt circuits, there are 10 black and 2 red wires out the back that correspond the the 12 fuse positions. Just connect your hot wire from your circuit to one of those and the ground side to a grounding block mounted separate from the panel but connected to the battery (-). I also will ground the chassis to battery (-).

All the AC circuits come into the box from the back, the black wires going to the circuit breakers, white ground to the white terminal block and the green to the earth terminal block.

I am going to add a battery disconnect switch to completely isolate the battery for storage. To do this I will have to remove the jumper within the converter and run wires from each side of the switch to the Battery (+) terminal and Alternate Battery (+) terminal. The thing I haven't figured out is if both or just one of these need to be heavy gauge wire. My guess is one wire is either for voltage sensing or minor internal power for the controller and wouldn't need to be a heavy gauge. Hopefully someone who knows will chime in here.

Mark

[Bubba L]

Regarding the propane lines, most would not recommend any joints (other than to the appliances) in the living space. You don't want to add leak potential within the living space; keep the connections below the belly pan. Normally I place a shutoff valve from the trunk line to each appliance (below the belly pan) so that I can isolate the gas to the appliance if needed.

We have just intalled a PD4045 and although this may be redundant, we found these steps to be helpful:
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=67143
Note that the PD used to have an additional bus bar on the lower right that was powered by the converter breaker. This was to be used to power other devices with the same 15 amp breaker. PD has discontinued that bus bar so don't get confused by drawings that show it.

Hope it helps,
Bubba

[TG Twinkie]

Originally Posted by Jeremy9107

Thanks David. Called Progessive Dynamics installation rep today. Realized that this converter is their Series 4060 (60 referring to 60 amp). When purchased in February thought that meant could get 50 amp service into it. Knowing nothing is tough. This model is for 30 amp service (the 60 amp refers to the converter/charger rating). Soooo.....contacting eBay seller. If they allow return, will get PD model 4560 :
Attachment 323288

Assuming they will not though, so will try to make this work.

The Marinco inlet is 50A. Can attach 30A service to 50A inlet with adapter :
Attachment 323287

What should be done with the extra (red) hot wire from the inlet? Cap it? Leave it out all together? Hook it up to circuit breaker? Hook it up to something else in converter?

Have no big AC draw in the trailer. No air conditioner. No microwave. No dishwasher. No clothes washer/dryer. No toaster. No hair dryer. So guess don't really need the 50A service now anyway, was just thinking ahead.

If you are using a 3 wire shore power cord. It will only have black, white and green.
Therefore there is no need for any connection to the red terminal on the inlet.
Even if you have a 4 wire shore power cord, 50 amp. And you only want 30 amp service to your coach. There is still no need to connect the red terminal to anything in the coach.
Not sure what you are using for a shore power cord.
A standard 3 wire 30 amp cord would be wired to the black, white and green terminals on the plug that goes into the inlet receptacle.
Can you post a pic of both ends of your shore power cord?

[Jeremy9107]

steinVT.
Regarding the 12 volt circuits, there are 10 black and 2 red wires out the back that correspond the the 12 fuse positions. Just connect your hot wire from your circuit to one of those and the ground side to a grounding block mounted separate from the panel but connected to the battery (-).

Curious, the PD rep did not mention connecting the 12V ground bus bar to the battery (-) terminal. Checked out Bubba's link as there is a good write up for the PD. It mentions same thing as you, only adds to connect battery terminal (-) to the 12V ground bus bar, then wire that bus bar to the lug for the battery ground (-) on the converter. Are there multiple ways to set this up, none of which are incorrect?

Think you may find your answer regarding the battery shut of switch in Bubba's link too. When you figure that out, perhaps you could include a diagram or picture??

[Jeremy9107]

TG Twinkie. Thanks for clarifying. At present do not have an inlet cord. Prior inlet cord was hard wired for 30A.

Are you saying that the red terminal on the back of the 50A Marinco outlet should just be left empty (no wire coming out of it) and it would function fine for 30A service?

[steinVT]

That link from Bubba does help as do your comments from the rep.

Here is my final (for now) schematic of the converter connections. Hope this helps.


Regarding wire size to replace the link in the converter, the size of the link says it all. I really don't understand what they are doing, but I will use heavy gauge wire on both sides.

Using the battery monitor I should be able to tell if the converter has a parasitic load when the disconnect switch is off. If it does, I may put the link back in and the switch in-line.

[Wabbiteer]

Double breakers!

My lost freight (very cheap) eBay WFCO converter had three available slots I filled with with three duplex breakers, for one Mains 30A and five Branch circuits - they note 15A maximum to outlet circuit receptacle, and 20A maximum for defined branch. Nice to isolate stuff with that extra switching capacity.

Fine, y'all might've known about them but I was pleased to discover they were both affordable & available if I spec'd them out from catalog and searched the web...

[Jeremy9107]

Wabbiteer. Good to hear from you. Had researched the WFCO but had come across too many bad reviews, thus went with PD.

steinVT. Nice work on the schematic. Thinking a battery monitor is a good idea. Can you give more details as to why there are 4 wires coming out of it? Regarding a disconnect switch, can that be wired to a control panel elsewhere in trailer or does it need to be right next to battery?

[Jeremy9107]

Round 2 for mounting axles was a success.

Replacing axles was not part of original plan, but it became first non planned expense after someone explained the rubber in the tube has no give after 50 years. The budget has since sky rocketed. It's hard to complain when comparing the old with the new.



Explained previously specs of axles and that Colin Hyde provided. Could not mount before because was not expecting mounting holes to be misaligned. If there is not universal mounting hole position, then why not ship these without any holes at all? Believe drilling new holes would be much easier than trying to ream out a half hole without breaking a wrist (did email Colin Hyde about this).



Once obtained the proper drill and 5/8" bit, was able to get new holes drilled. Had to do most of this from under trailer as wheels were in way. Also used a round metal file where only a bit needed to be removed.






And because nothing can ever go perfectly, could not put wheels on because did not purchase enough shocks. Colin Hyde recommended Monroe 555003. Not carried by any local autoparts store so ordered on Amazon and will wait to arrive.

[Jeremy9107]

Was glad to get some belly skin on also. Trying to do this with as few pieces as possible, but also thinking easiest way to provide access if needed.

If recall, reason for overhaul started with a simple desire for gray water tanks. There are 2 positioned over axles now. Before axles were placed, had to put skin on.

Do not have electric shears so went with jigsaw and metal cutting blade. Does not give smooth edge, but oh well, better than cutting by hand.


Used idea from dbj216 to hold skin with 2x4 on jack (this way did not have to call for favors from friends)


Used 3/16" wide flanged rivets. The task of drilling those rivet holes from under trailer goes on the list of awful things. Metal shavings falling in face and eyes and getting stuck in hair is no fun. At end of day, wrists and forearms got a good work out from drilling and hand riveting.



Also was able to get skin placed under fresh water tank. As can see, will be able to make 1 piece for nearly all of trailer in front of axle with the exception of this piece.



Previously this was directly below 1" support board under tank (have plans to someday replace that wood with Coosa board), then all of that slid within support rails. It was a very snug fit and nearly impossible to remove fresh water tank. Plus, lots of corrosion on the sides of that old skin where it contacted the frame. So tucked front edge under front tank frame rail only, then kept all other edges on outside of tank frame.





The small hole near the center on the street side is the tube coming off the solenoid valve installed to allow emptying of fresh water tank.

[steinVT]

Originally Posted by Jeremy9107

Thinking a battery monitor is a good idea. Can you give more details as to why there are 4 wires coming out of it? Regarding a disconnect switch, can that be wired to a control panel elsewhere in trailer or does it need to be right next to battery?

The monitor watches all current into and out of the battery and should give a reasonable estimate of remaining capacity. Electrically no reason you need four wires, the ground wires appear redundant. I imagine it was done that way so the meter could be mounted remotely and get power from somewhere else and then just run the two wires to the shunt to sense the voltage.

You should be able to put the disconnect switch anywhere as long as you run the full size cables to it which gets pricey. Mine will be close to the battery.

Good progress with the axles and belly pan. How is working with that material? Would suggest buying a $50 electric shear from Harbor Freight to make your life easier, did for me.

[dbj216]

I also have an electric shear that works great for cutting aluminum sheet. And this old geezer bought an "upside down drill press" that makes drilling new rivet holes much easier on the shoulder.

steinVT did it right with the frame flipped over like they do in the Airstream factory. Installing a belly pan is easier yet this way.

David