'70 Caravanner restoration

[Jeremy9107]

All. Thanks for the axle advice and merit badges. I always wanted to be a Boy Scout! Forgive if dumb question, but can axles be refurbished? If the rubber in the axle tube is hard can it be replaced? Like most things, I have no knowledge of this stuff.

[DremStremer]

Originally Posted by Jeremy9107

All. Thanks for the axle advice and merit badges. I always wanted to be a Boy Scout! Forgive if dumb question, but can axles be refurbished? If the rubber in the axle tube is hard can it be replaced? Like most things, I have no knowledge of this stuff.

The axles can not be refurbished. I'm not sure it would be worth it if you could. With a new axle you can get new brakes, and specify a greater down angle if you want.

[Aerowood]

Dexter axles are also an option. You don't have to pay for shipping if you pick up from one of their dealer's

Capitol Clutch & Brake
3100 Duluth Street
West Sacramento, CA 95691

[Jeremy9107]

Aerowood thanks. I actually had a Dexter axle webpage open when you posted. Would give me a good reason to go to Sacto and eat at Stockton burger!

[Jeremy9107]

Putting new floor on soon and need help with what type of bolts to use (and how many). Honestly can't remember from demolition what bolts were there. Most were rusted and brittle and tossed after pounding and grinding.

Have decided on stainless steel for all nuts/bolts/washers and nylon washers if in contact with aluminum C channel.

1) Think the floor was secured to cross members with elevator bolts (flat head). What diameter/length and how many are needed?

2) Recall there was a different type of bolt or screw at the center of each crossmember. Why?

3) What was used in the C channel? Combination of bolts and screws perhaps?

[Wabbiteer]

I ran into fastener strength problems using common stainless bolts, they can be as little as 1/3 the yield strength of normal steel, plus the mass produced china bolts & screws can suffer weird hardening where the head will twist off if you look at it wrong.

I especially found that out setting the entry door sill in place - to do that again I'd pick a good plain steel and use that, it's visible and has air movement to keep well.

Anyhow, maybe(?) when replacing smaller diameter bolts with common stainless bolts (bigbox store etc.) bump the fastener diameter up one or two sizes, 1/4" to 5/16" or 3/8", etc., this would be in C-Channel and endcap clamps.

My '73 had low/no grain 'elevator' conveyor bolts used - instead there were these spaced at about eight to ten inches on the lateral frame rail floor supports & outriggers...


Treat each one as its own thing as far as counter-sinking head into floor, find a void or soft spot the screw will pull almost through; find an especially hard spot the threads may strip before the screw head becomes flush. I did a small pilot pre-drill from bottom up, the metal the self-drilling pushes out of the way more than doubles the frame stamped metal thickness and increases strength, don't go all machinist tolerances on it, 1/8" pilot hole is huge, then open up the plywood bore (I snapped the cuter wings off the pictured screw)...

Folks say the OEM screws were bent over to keep them from backing out, I found they straightened up with no effort unscrewing them as is; so that's a quality control procedure from the factory two man team installing them and not mechanically needed.

On the axles, even before I started the final version of '73 27' rehab, I called Andy and had a twin axle set, fasteners and shocks delivered with low/no pain. Added 250 or 500-pound to rating, my tow vehicle then* was 4-inch factory lifted F150 and I wanted the extra tail & A-frame height, not so sure I'd select that again as my tow vehicle is now a diesel Promaster (Fiat Ducato) window van.

You are looking GOOD on your frame paint - yes exposed POR weathers, the semi-gloss black I'd used developed a fine black soot like film on it and was exposed 5 years without further decay - the 'black-out look' was okay, I finally restripped frame and shot two thick coats of silver that is doing okay w/o topcoat (so far).

One thing to check is POR tends to pull back from sharp edges as it cures, one might go and inspect anywhere (a mere three or five hundred linear feet) where the steel has an right-angle edge and daub more POR on...

[Jeremy9107]

Wabbiteer. Upon looking at my demo photos, at each plywood seam, there were 6 or so elevator bolts along with one of those bolts you pictured. Was curious as to why?? You may have talked me out of going stainless steal which would save me money considering I need 80 or so bolts but if I do I'll for sure bump up a size.

Regarding the POR15. I'm going to top coat with silver along anything that will be visible. For sure will follow your advice and dab those tricky corners. I wonder if it peels there because it is harder to get the original factory paint off??

[Wabbiteer]

POR likes itself, as carrier solvent dries & catalyst reactions start it pulls back onto itself. I'd be thinking the rust spotting on my outriggers at their knife edges didn't come from OEM paint because those same edges got hit the most from abrasives and scouring wire brushes...

With your mix of flooring fasteners there had to be a changeover period where they used a mix of bolt/screws, they might've had a railroad car worth of elevator bolts to use up before switching to the self-drilling screws, I've no clue whether it was a material/labor cost or performance consideration. Those screws used every 6, 8 or 10 inches work great in a good quality true 3/4" plywood, remember the frames so supple the shell holds up the floor so everything is flying in loose formation thus a little give and take here and there is needed.

You mentioned C-channel having various fasteners – my 27’ had sheetmetal screws that ‘located’ the C-channel position to keep them from drifting while other things were being aligned. The shell rib stubs are incredibly taut and snag like mad while aligning & stretching slack ripple out of the surface skins (inbetween-the-ribs working from front to rear when landing the shell); once that is done then the outrigger throughbolts and rib rivets etc. anchor the junk permanently. All good places to use stainless hardware… except maybe the door frame assembly, it’s the weak spot in an AS shells semi-monocoque shell construction so pin it tight w/ good fasteners...

Stainless does not have to be break-the-bank expensive. http://www.allensfasteners.com/ < -- wholesale prices on fiddly-bits, maybe some cheaper somewhere but I have given these folks five or seven orders. Note the ‘truss’ head stainless screws, I like them for extra width for soft material like sheet aluminum and wood, laminates, plastics.

Stainless steel ‘nyloc’ style nuts have built-in dense nylon wafer collars that deforms around bolt threads to prevent nut from backing off and are worth the small premium & effort even to use on general trailer bolts.

Stainless flat washers, even the ‘fender’ style oversize flat washers, are usually annoyingly thin unless you hunt down a source of extra-thick washers. Translates to us as washer cupping & crushing plywood and/or aluminum extrusions when tightened enough to clamp well – I think I did use SS fender washers against wood/steel/aluminum but backed them with a grade5 or 8 steel so the initial clamp pressure doesn’t reduce over time as the SS washers deform and crater plywood beneath them.

Don’t let the small, precise, trivial details overwhelm, just do make noises before purchasing//committing, that’s what this place leaves the lights on for…

[Jeremy9107]

"Don’t let the small, precise, trivial details overwhelm, just do make noises before purchasing//committing, that’s what this place leaves the lights on for…

I find myself stuck in the trivial a lot because the advice on these forums is so vast. I try to do my homework though.

Thanks for the allenfasteners link. I am going to price check them in the future against another I found...https://www.copperstate.com/. These guys have been around for over 50 years and have 30 some locations including one near me.

Going to look into the nylon nuts or washers. I had thought of using lock washer with loctite.

[Jeremy9107]

Today spent the day light hours cutting and fitting floor. Long ago read forum member Isuzusweet encouraging use of Coosa board for flooring. Got interested when he said it was stronger than ply, lighter than ply and would never rot, mildew or mold. Trouble is...it is expensive (can be $400 per sheet). Spent nearly a month trying to find an alternative that could claim the same things as Coosa to no avail. In the end, I bought it. Revchem in Stockton carries and cost to us was $183/sheet and the warehouse was close enough to pick up and avoid shipping charges. It cut and drilled nicely with standard wood tools. VERY LIGHT but also rigid.

The old floor was in good enough shape to use as templates. Marked and cut with skill saw starting with the front piece working to the back.

Earlier we had posted a question as to the 4 mystery bolts in the frame near the front end cap. Couldn't remember if they were elevator bolts that were cut off but there were no holes in the C channel at those locations where they would have come up. They almost look like spline bolts or weld bolts and the prevailing thought now is they were meant to align the plywood floor. Might be wrong but welcome any other thoughts. Glad we didn't chop them off. Just straightened out and used as a guide for the new floor.

Once pieces were cut, we clamped to frame and drilled holes from the bottom using the pre-existing holes where elevator bolts were.

Preordered 100 elevator bolts thinking needed 80 or so, but dang it if there weren't 125 holes when we were done drilling. Back to the bolt store.

5 of the cross members are recessed 5/8" and had strips that were used to laminate the plywood sheets at each seam. We had extra Coosa so cut it into 5" wide strips by length of cross member and used the planer to shave 1/8" off. Will do same laminate technique with epoxy glue and flat headed stainless steel screws.

[Jeremy9107]

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[dbj216]

You are using the best subfloor material there is. Very neat you found a wholesale price for it. I understand it is amazing stuff. The subfloor plays such an important role in the structure of the Airstream.

You are making good progress.

David

[Jeremy9107]

Painted the sun exposed areas of the frame with POR15 silver top coat today but am not happy with the outcome. Probably operator error... but the black undercoat left a nice, smooth shiny surface. The silver, not so forgiving. Lots of drip marks and shows every defect. Need some options for a plan B or how can this be fixed?
[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[Jeremy9107]

Need to get the wheel wells on so can secure floor down and reattach frame. Had a plan to reuse them by cleaning and applying Herculiner to the underside but have areas that have broken, cracked and even a hole from where it looks like the tire rubbed against it.
1) Can/should this be repaired?
2) If need to replace, where do I get them? Did not see them at Inland RV or Vintage Trailer Supply. Did see one at Out of Doors Mart but not a perfect match. Have seen some threads about people who fabricated with metal and was wondering how this compares to the plastic.

[Wabbiteer]

An observation:

For the '73 I own, the 'white' plastic tub was/is the interior portion of a two-layer plastic wheel well assembly, pictured here is the black lower/outer weather seal tub - then an inch of fiberglass and a creme colored plastic inside liner finish piece looking very similar to the one you've shown...

I repaired the black weather liners with kayak repair epoxy and fiberglass mesh mainly for mouse proofing, also heat gunned flanges and modified them to NOT slip between floor and frame, they flange against & protect the flooring from underneath only.

Also, concerning fabricating new tire well housing - I'll share an odd idea I've been brewing a while; using these $80 ramps as structural framework between inner & outer liners. The lengths of the three sections when appropriately diced up provide most of the metal needed, yes a tire tread delamination and slap fest against the tubs would wreak merry ell but not explode interior built-ins.

[Jeremy9107]

Wabbiteer. I don't have that black outer tub. Do you think I am supposed to and over the years someone removed it? Curious to know how thick the plastic is as I thought it was odd that mine being almost a quarter inch thick was tucked under floor on top of frame.

If I understand from your photo, black outer tub sits under floor via flange. Then insulation. Then cream tub over top everything with its flange on top of floor?

Also would like details on how you modified flange to not slip.

[DremStremer]

My 70 Safari only has the one liner as well. I believe Airstream switched to the inner and outer liners in later models. Liners for tandem axels can be found at Out of Doors Mart and Silver Trailer Supply. I have not found a source for the single axel liners, which mine is.

[cole3444]

If you are looking for new tandem axle wheel wells their's a set on the forums that are for sale for 75.00 plus shipping. He is great to deal with. He is from Wisconsin. Jim

[Jeremy9107]

Cole3444. Thanks for the heads up on that add. I sent him a message. Trying to figure out if I need to have 2 layers for these wheel wells or if the one is adequate.

[Jeremy9107]

Considering options for wheel well replace vs repair has halted bolting down the floor so started to clean the inner skins in the hopes of eliminating any possible remaining odors that we used to attribute as just "that old trailer smell". They have this "tarred and feathered" appearance with insulation adhesive and fiberglass fibers. Probably some Vulkem in there as well. Had considered Goof Off but read on other threads that it does nothing. Had no luck with soap and water. Read about cooking oil but it did nothing. Bought purple label Krud Kutter but it also did nothing. Was going to throw in the towel but had a can of Xylene laying around that was used to thin POR15. Decided to try it out and it worked great. Used it in a spray bottle and then scrubbed off after 15 minutes with a brush and 3M scouring pads. Nasty stuff so was sure to have goggles, respirator and gloves.


On advice from forum members, ordered Gray Sikaflex 221 to apply to seams and rivets on inside. Before I do... there were olympic rivets along several panels at the front end cap and around the front window. This is the only place in the trailer that these are present. Could this possibly be a repair? Would it be advised to change out for buck rivets?