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Old 03-26-2018, 08:01 AM   #41
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I put a power switch in line to turn off the always on sub-woofer. The new Classics with all the computer run equipment will have a lot of parasite power draws. The clocks on the microwave and other equipment are drawing parasite loads. Double check the radio is really off, as some models blank the display but are still on. We put switched outlets beside the televisions so I can turn off power to the tv as the instant on feature draws power all the time. Plus, with the newer "smart" televisions, they are listening all the time.....
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:33 AM   #42
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Not to be snarky, but if you have to ask where to install, you are not in a position to install. Generally, you will need to find a practical location near a 12V source, remove something to gain access to the 12V wiring and you will most likely need to drill a hole to accommodate the device you are installing, whether it be a 12V or dual USB receptacle.

My trailer (2013 Flying Cloud 25') came with 12V LED swivel reading lamps in each corner, right next to the radio speakers. I removed the speaker covers to gain access to the 12V wiring to the lamps, drilled a hole next to the speaker for 12V receptacle and tapped into the 12V wiring. The 12V wiring was very stout, little worry about overloading the 20A circuit. So now I have a 12V receptacle in each corner and can plug in a USB adapter if I need that level of power.


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Old 03-28-2018, 07:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Airdream99 View Post
I bought one of these to try. It powers my 12 vt fan just fine. I will buy another. Not sure if it will power a CPAP however.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074V35WBJ...v_ov_lig_dp_it
I'm sure that these things are useful for small, low current users, but it is another example of losses in conversion from one voltage to another.

This line is from the Amazon ad:
" USB Input: 5V 2A, Cigarette Lighter Socket Output: 12V 0.7A Max,"
which means that you put in 2 amps and get just over half an amp out.
Getting out 1/3 of the input is not a great ratio. The 12v cigar lighter, or other direct 12v source in much more efficient.

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Old 03-28-2018, 08:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by nvestysly View Post
I agree - no 12V outlet is a problem. Yes, the 12V days may be numbered but I don't think Airstream should omit this feature particularly when it's easily provided as part of the interior antenna connection used in so many RVs.

Examples of 12V items that are still relevant in RVers lives:
- Endless Breeze box fan
- Electric razor/shaver
- Corded emergency flashlight
- Portable freezer / "ice" chest
- Battery charger for AA/AAA/C/D cells
- Portable/rechargeable vacuum

and I feel sure there are many others.

I recently attended a "new car" show and noticed many vehicles continue to have 12V power outlets in a variety of locations - center console, rear console, behind the seat in SUVs.
Don't forget air compressors and we boost cell phone signal booster. I have an Interstate and I'm looking to power my we boost signal booster without turning on the engine but I don't have a 12v outlet.
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:13 AM   #45
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THANK YOU Paprika!! I am electrically challenged and YOU have explained the problem to me in a way I can understand. Even better, you did not speak down or in a patronizing manner. People like you are worth gold. You taught me more than a few things today.


Seconded, I’m not a 12v kinda guy and was trying to understand this issue.
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:42 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham View Post
I'm sure that these things are useful for small, low current users, but it is another example of losses in conversion from one voltage to another.



This line is from the Amazon ad:

" USB Input: 5V 2A, Cigarette Lighter Socket Output: 12V 0.7A Max,"

which means that you put in 2 amps and get just over half an amp out.

Getting out 1/3 of the input is not a great ratio. The 12v cigar lighter, or other direct 12v source in much more efficient.



Abe


Abe

It is not quite that bad. You need to compare watts, not amps when looking at efficiency. 5v in @ 2 amps is 10 watts. 12v out @ .7 amps is 8.4 watts, so 84% efficient.

It is important to make sure the 12v, or 5v outlet is rated for the power that you need. For example the 12v outlet in my VW Golf is rated at 100 watts, so I can use it to power my compressor cooled cooler that requires about 50 watts.

Dan
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:25 AM   #47
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However, another side of the story is wire size which is current limited. Thus, for copper wire, #10 wire is rated 30 amps, #12 wire is rated 20 amps, #14 wire is rated 15 amps, and #10 wire is rated 10 amps.

Another issue in the DC world is severe voltage drop over distance. This leads to the discovery that the 25' run to the back of a trailer to run a breathing machine could require a least one size larger wire (ie #10 versus #12) to preclude a voltage drop that could burn up the motor.

AC current has voltage drop as well and fifty feet of #10 wire 30 amp rated power cords could drop the voltage inside the trailer..... Thus the need to check the voltage inside the trailer before firing up the largest AC motor - the air conditioner.

Ohm's law still applies to trailers....
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:34 AM   #48
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However, another side of the story is wire size which is current limited. Thus, for copper wire, #10 wire is rated 30 amps, #12 wire is rated 20 amps, #14 wire is rated 15 amps, and #10 wire is rated 10 amps.
If I am not mistaken, Airstream ran 15 amp fuses and 12g wire on all of their 12v circuits, so whatever you do with 12v will be OK as far as the wire is concerned. Airstream (according to the quoted text) has already upsized the wire for you.
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:06 AM   #49
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If I am not mistaken, Airstream ran 15 amp fuses and 12g wire on all of their 12v circuits, so whatever you do with 12v will be OK as far as the wire is concerned. Airstream (according to the quoted text) has already upsized the wire for you.
On my 2013 Flying Cloud, I found this to be true for the wires leading to all of the corner reading lamps I tapped into, 12 gauge stranded wire. And all are protected with 15A fuses.


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Old 03-30-2018, 11:13 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Abe

It is not quite that bad. You need to compare watts, not amps when looking at efficiency. 5v in @ 2 amps is 10 watts. 12v out @ .7 amps is 8.4 watts, so 84% efficient.

It is important to make sure the 12v, or 5v outlet is rated for the power that you need. For example the 12v outlet in my VW Golf is rated at 100 watts, so I can use it to power my compressor cooled cooler that requires about 50 watts.

Dan
Dan:

Thanks for the correction. I knew that, but was just in too much of a hurry when I posted.

My point about conversion losses is still valid. Any conversion has losses and should be avoided when possible.

Also valid comments about being sure of outlet ratings. In the past, when 12v outlets in cars were actually used for lighting cigars/cigarettes, they had to be rated for higher amps/watts, since the electric heating elements required plenty of juice. I believe most car outlets are still capable of high current uses. But other 12v outlets that look the same may not have the wire size of other components to handle the larger loads. Be sure to check the output ratings before use.

Safety first.

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Old 04-01-2018, 02:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
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If I am not mistaken, Airstream ran 15 amp fuses and 12g wire on all of their 12v circuits, so whatever you do with 12v will be OK as far as the wire is concerned. Airstream (according to the quoted text) has already upsized the wire for you.
The two USB ports in my 2017 25FB Serenity had two four inch 22 gauge leads molded into them. The 12v service wires attached to the two 22 gauge leads were 12 gauge.

Both OEM USB outlets overheated and smelled very hot when charging anything but a single iPhone. I replaced them with marine grade units with push connectors attached to the 12 gauge feed.

Airstream really cheaped out on the USB ports and created a situation that could have been dangerous and costly.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:13 AM   #52
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The two USB ports in my 2017 25FB Serenity had two four inch 22 gauge leads molded into them. The 12v service wires attached to the two 22 gauge leads were 12 gauge.

Both OEM USB outlets overheated and smelled very hot when charging anything but a single iPhone. I replaced them with marine grade units with push connectors attached to the 12 gauge feed.

Airstream really cheaped out on the USB ports and created a situation that could have been dangerous and costly.
We also had to have the USB ports replaced due to overheating and "the electrical" burning smell.

JC did this while in for other warranty work. Have not checked to see how they are attached, so far no indication of problem, but will check anyway.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:46 AM   #53
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We also had to have the USB ports replaced due to overheating and "the electrical" burning smell.

JC did this while in for other warranty work. Have not checked to see how they are attached, so far no indication of problem, but will check anyway.
Would be interesting to see if they installed a heavier duty port and wiring.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:11 PM   #54
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12V adapter for MacBook Pro

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Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Would love to hear more about your MacBook Pro power supply that plugs into a 12V outlet and how well it works for you. Every similar item I've seen on Amazon has relatively poor reviews. Thanks!
You're right. I tried several in the past. At best, they charged very slowly (and only when the computer was not in use). At worst, they melted down (two out of three examples of one brand).

But ever hopeful, I tried the Gearmo 75 W adapter. It works exactly as it should: rapidly charges my 15" MacBook Pro even when I'm using it; and while the adapter gets warm, it doesn't overheat. It has a USB-C port for the MacBook and a USB-A (standard USB) port for charging things like a phone or tablet. I have three of these now, and have never had a problem. Highly recommended.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:17 PM   #55
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MacBook Power Travel Kit

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Would love to hear more about your MacBook Pro power supply that plugs into a 12V outlet and how well it works for you. Every similar item I've seen on Amazon has relatively poor reviews. Thanks!
I use the Mikegyver travel kit for my MacBook Air. Used it for years and it works great.

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Old 04-02-2018, 07:36 PM   #56
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Thanks to both of you for a couple of great suggestions! Next time I'm located long enough to take a delivery, I'll be placing an order or two.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:47 AM   #57
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When we looked at the Tommy Bahama 27 I was impressed that it had USB on the nightstands, so we can both charge our phones at night. Got it home and found the USB doesn’t work without shore or inverter power. We boondock a lot so that’s basically useless. If there were 12v outlets we could use car chargers.

Guess I need to find those 12V wires and install some (yes, dying technology) 12 volt cigarette sockets.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:31 AM   #58
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Mine did that, but I thought it was a bad connection. I took it out, pulled off the wires and put them back on, and it has worked ever since. I have no explanation for this, but you may want to try it.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:18 PM   #59
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OP here. I am reviving this old thread because I have added another 12v outlet. This one I put under the dining table, beside the 120v outlet and the 120v inverter outlet. I tied the 12v wires into the hot and ground wires that power the sub-woofer. That is about 2 feet away, under the dinette seat.

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Old 11-13-2018, 12:48 PM   #60
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I bought one of these to try. It powers my 12 vt fan just fine. I will buy another. Not sure if it will power a CPAP however.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074V35WBJ...v_ov_lig_dp_it
I got that same unit to experiment with placement of the transmitter of my Garmin BC-30 rear camera. Since the transmitter only draws 150 mw., I felt it would work.
It works great!
I'd still prefer if AS left a 12v. outlet in front and back. I mean, do I really need 8 charging ports?
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