Senior Management Failures at AS

[GMFL]

COO on vacation? I don’t think so. Busy running Airstream prob so.
I don’t believe you should base your potential risk for future problems from this thread. Sure there are issues but not common to all units.
My thoughts are enjoy your Airstream and deal with the bumps as they arise.
There is a syndrome we all develop by bathing in the problems of others which clouds our view of our personal units.
If we read about every problem on this forum we can easily develop the opinion that all Airstream’s have problems, and that is just not the case.

[J. Morgan]

There are reasons most no company will talk about their product on an open forum, chief among the reasons is because it’s a no win scenario.

[hoagy_007]

Justin did take the time to respond back with a personal email. How many others who reached out to him received a response?

[ROBERT CROSS]

AS doesn't really have to participate here on the forum at all...just sneak around, pay attention and take action. Start on the concerns that just never seem to go away...air screws for one. 👍
Start small, until they get the hang of it.🤓

Bob
🇺🇸

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

AS doesn't really have to participate here on the forum at all...just sneak around, pay attention and take action. Start on the concerns that just never seem to go away...air screws for one. 👍
Start small, until they get the hang of it.🤓

Bob
🇺🇸

And the beauty to this type of approach is that it would seem like they realised their own mistakes and were taking the corrective steps without any prodding...

[SteveSueMac]

I’m wondering if there’s some connection to or concern (justified or not) about liability exposure that keeps them out of the forums (save for a handful of replies over the years and an (outsourced?) account to tell people to provide their VIN number or call customer service...).

In our lawsuit=lottery society, the idea that executives actively participate in a forum like this, are therefore aware of the problems in writing, and then “fail” to take action to my satisfaction means they’re subjected to treble damages and pain & suffering when I skin my knuckles from the slip of the torque wrench off those damned spinning plastic covers on the lug nuts! That’ll be $10,000,000 please and thank you.

Even if 95% of people wouldn’t go there, for the 5% who would, that could potentially be catastrophic. Best to have some distance / “plausible deniability”....

If that’s the driver, it would be a shame, and yet perfectly understandable....

[gypsydad]

I believe the AS folks are more tuned into this Forum then many may think. I know when talking with AS Adventures tek folks last week about Li-batteries and solar costs/customer experiences and feedback, they knew exactly who I was and mentioned they watch these posts. The guys I talked with mentioned they wish there were more compliments. Can't blame them...who wants to read negative stuff all the time about your company.
I have had good luck with my latest 2017 28' when I needed help or replacement parts under warranty that have gone bad for what ever reason. I have received a water filler assembly (my fault pulling out with hose connected), shower door sweep, and they are reimbursing me for my tires which were worn unevenly due to brake wires being cut. Also replaced batteries that were bad from Interstate and the single stage converter with a multi-stage Boondocker...my decision.
As for listening to us in a regularly scheduled QA type input meeting, I agree that some of us could help point out obvious areas of improvement, but I suspect the list from each of us may be overwhelming and not necessarily consistent. This type forum for improvements could easily digress into a complaint session instead of constructive input. Weather we see this evolve or not I suspect it would be tough to satisfy all of us. Quality improvements require more than just submitting a list; someone has to buy off on our suggestions, transfer ownership of issue to right group for resolution, cost estimates on suggestions, etc... lots to think about in changing how AS or any company does business.
One of the most common complaints has to do with getting a prompt service appointment after sale to fix or install something...that to me is huge. But, it also has caused me to become more of a DIY guy...
I would think management's interest in this type of customer feedback is being looked at for sure...we all know how a few bad comments can ruin a company if they don't get ahead of the game.

[GCinSC2]

I know of an employee at an automotive supplier that did not participate on any questions concerning their company products on a forum.

Pretty much just wasn’t allowed to.

[Jaywaltz]

Originally Posted by jhumphreys

Good evening Airstreamers-

My name is Justin Humphreys and I am the COO- here at Airstream. Yes, management does monitor these forums and we do take the posts we see very seriously. Many product changes have happened based on the comments and posts we see here. We also have an agency who helps us monitor all social sites and we try to reach out to anyone we find with a problem personally.

As far as the original poster’s point is concerned, yes, Airstream uses TPS and has been on our lean journey for ten years. Would love to talk over the phone and let you know what that means and how we have approached it. You can reach me at jhumphreys@airstream.com. Maybe we can schedule a call to discuss?

A quick question for the group, I am considering the idea of forming a customer quality council where we can share ideas and listen to suggestions from our customers. Haven’t worked out the logistics but I am thinking about on conference call once a quarter and potentially an annual meeting in person in Jackson Center once per year. We would be looking for a blend of Airstream veterans and newbies who have some technical expertise and experiences that may help us build a better product. Does that sound like a good idea to this group? Just a thought at this point, but wanted to throw it out there for feedback. We get customer feedback in a variety of ways, but this would be a more formal approach worth considering.

Despite what some may feel, Airstream absolutely cares about quality and we measure it in a variety of ways. We’ve made some big investments and are looking to make the largest investment yet with a new plant. Airstream does survey customers on product quality and we now call every new owner after six weeks of ownership to check in with them on their new Airstream. I try to make some of those calls myself.

Overall, I believe we build the best RV in the business, but know we have made mistakes and have to continually push ourselves to improve. I appreciate the candid feedback and look forward to making each of you proud as we continue to find ways to improve. For those of you who have posted that we let you down in any way, I want to personally apologize on behalf of the entire company.

Thank you all for your passion for our products, your business means the world to 971 hard working families here in Jackson Center, OH!

Happy Airstreaming-

Justin Humphreys
COO- Airstream, Inc.

Yes, count us in! Thank you for reaching out. This is also a shout out to the management. In early June we contacted COO Humpreys via email regarding a factory defect in our 5 year old Eddie Bauer. Within the hour he responded and directed Randy McNeeley to follow up (which he also did within an hour). Let’s give this team our support in turning the mothership around and making us all happy customers and proud Airstream owners.

[Tim A.]

Originally Posted by hoagy_007

Justin did take the time to respond back with a personal email. How many others who reached out to him received a response?

I also received a thoughtful, personal email response from him.

Tim

[Gene]

It is understandable there is skepticism. Complaints, the same ones, have been going on in this Forum since it began about 15 years ago. And complaints were the same before that. The same issues have come up over and over again and any changes at Airstream were very, very slow, if at all.

A customer advisory panel has been suggested long ago and when I spoke with the company president, Bob Wheeler, about a decade ago, I brought it up too. Eventually Wheeler started a thread here—the one Bob Cross refers to, the Town Hall thread—and appeared to be overwhelmed by the criticism he got. I believe some people contacted him about corrosion issues and had some success with that. But he disappeared quickly from that thread and eventually the Forum disappeared the thread itself. It should be returned so management can see what happened a decade ago. Airstream and the Forum have always had a strange relationship.

The bottom line is Thor has little reason to change their company mission (not one they will admit to)—make as much money as possible with mediocre and sub-mediocre RV's. It has worked well for management and shareholders, but not customers. Have you heard owners of other Thor products complain about the terrible Thor product they own? I have. Thor sells more Airstreams now than they have before and may be able to afford a COO and some QC. Maybe Justin is sincere. I hope so. But I stand by my prediction he most likely will be gone before 18 months.

Sorry to be so negative, but Airstream has to prove it has changed. Thor's record is poor. A bad reputation is hard to repair.

[J. Morgan]

The thing is, a forum is a magnet for peoples negative experiences, and frankly, a lot of the things that are talked about endlessly TO ME seem like more trouble to talk about for years than to simply fix and forget.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

The thing is, a forum is a magnet for peoples negative experiences, and frankly, a lot of the things that are talked about endlessly TO ME seem like more trouble to talk about for years than to simply fix and forget.

For example back when people who fix old Airstreams used to have a real presence here on the forum, a common complaint was how the plywood on 20, 30, and 40 year old trailers would rot out, and how Airstream was negligent for that.

It’s never ending. There will always be problems, and problems will ALWAYS concentrate and get magnified in public forums. Always

I’m trying not to get personal, but I have to mention how one of the most vocal and long standing detractors of Airstream on the forum owns three of them. Airstreams are one of those things that have good points and bad points, we take the bad, and the perceived bad with the good. That’s just how it is.

There will always be bugs to work out, always, so work the bugs out of your trailer and get to camping.

[AirstreamCSH]

I participated actively on an industry computer system forum back in the 1990’s and 2000’s. The complaints about coding and design errors were so specific as to make this forum seem tame. This was probably because people had businesses and careers on the line and not just leisure time and invested dollars like we do here. We used listserv and a basic BBS but had a few hundred people posting problems but like here, also helping each other out. Our users group even rewrote the users manuals and defined the reporting sequences entirely separate from the software vendor. The users group became so powerful we met for a day before the annual software convention and our members met with the software company owners to lay out key requirements for the coming year. It became a working partnership where the bitching stopped because the forum was engaged with the senior management of the software company and it was a win-win for all.

It would be wise for AS management to engage the forum, establish a methodology to actively listen and report back and moreover, meet yearly. It pays dividends in so many ways that it’s remarkable more businesses with a fan base don’t embrace it.

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by hoagy_007

Justin did take the time to respond back with a personal email. How many others who reached out to him received a response?

He responded to me

[OTRA15]

Great recent comments, with these key points being especially notable IMO [emphasis added]:

Originally Posted by Gene

It is understandable there is skepticism. Complaints, the same ones, have been going on in this Forum since it began about 15 years ago. And complaints were the same before that. The same issues have come up over and over again and any changes at Airstream were very, very slow, if at all.
. . .
Sorry to be so negative, but Airstream has to prove it has changed. Thor's record is poor. A bad reputation is hard to repair.

. . . and this key point too:

Originally Posted by AirstreamCSH

. . .
It would be wise for AS management to engage the forum, establish a methodology to actively listen and report back . . .
. . .

At the risk of stating the obvious, this forum is a public Internet forum.

COO Humphreys chose to participate here, back in June, and has not really responded since then. Six posts in total since 10/31/14. [See Post #192 linked below] This track record does not indicate a public willingness to "actively listen" IMO.

Private emails and PM's are not public.

Yes, there is risk involved in being more public.

There is also trust to be gained.




PS -- Post #192 can be seen in full by clicking on the orange arrow in the quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15

In terms of Airstream "listening" etc., here is the last post from Justin Humphreys on June 19, 2018 in Post #99:
. . .

[OTRA15]

PS2 -- Everyone might want to read the new Atlas is History thread, for some insights to what is actually going on at Airstream right now. The news is not good IMO:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...ry-184772.html

Also the Simple Survey [BC fridge] and Nest threads:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...ne-169937.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f546...et-181181.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f546...am-169700.html

Some sad stuff IMO about design and fabrication issues . . . as if the wheels are coming off the bus . . .

[Gene]

It has been said for years on this Forum and other places as well, that most posters are angry people who post negative comments to get a psychological kick out of it. Trip Advisor a few years ago checked that out and noted that most posts on that website were positive, not negative. Lately it has been discovered that people pay more attention to negative posts even when they are very few. Thus even forums with few negative comments may seem to have far more negative comments just because that is what people notice. I know when I am looking for a restaurant, I notice the negative comments when they point out specific problems like dirtiness, lousy service, terrible food. A lot of times there will ten vague posts about how great the restaurant is and to one specifically telling how bad it is—which would carry the most weight with you? I suspect a lot of people follow the idea of if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. It makes for nice social discourse, but nothing will ever improve if everyone does that.

What does this prove? Since this is not a travel site, Trip Advisor's statistics may not prove much for this Forum. But it is what we know. One obvious factor in why there are negative comments on threads about poor Airstream quality is that they are threads about poor Airstream quality. It is true some of the same people have posted on various threads (such as the lamented Town Hall thread), but maybe not to beat on Airstream to gain some sort of personal excitement, but simply to inform the discussion.

I have been here for 11 years and have watched the poor quality threads come and go many times. Their effect on Airstream has been limited even though there are people there who watch the Forum. I don't know whether they respond every few years to simply tamp down the anger and disappointment people feel when they purchase a so-called premium product and find it is poorly made with a lot of inferior materials or perhaps they genuinely care, but in the end cannot change the corporate culture at Thor. Every thread about this eventually dies (or was disappeared by the Forum in the Town Hall case). Customers (or people who read the thread and decided never to become Airstream customers) give up, some get what they wanted from management, or some just stew.

Personally, I got stuff done through Airstream and did a lot of improvements myself. When I sold the Airstream, I think the new owners got a good deal, a much better version than the one I purchased ten years before. I have posted on successive threads for years because it seemed to the right thing to do—to inform new people and Airstream the problems have not gone away.

I have seen two things around this over the years. Some of the "poor quality at Airstream" threads are noticed by people looking to buy an Airstream. A lot of them decide never to buy a new one, or buy one at all. Even though many people just read the threads and never post, I suspect some of them do the same. That means over the years the company has lost millions in sales. Apparently they do not think it is worth it to make a better product since they can lose sales and still make bundles of cash. And they have made bundles of cash and sold whatever they made with some exceptions (Basecamp is one; I don't know how the new version is doing, but the new one we saw sure was ugly) Despite that, Airstream still has a good reputation. I got 71% of what I paid for ours after 10 years and 63,000 miles. Try to get that for a car.

We sold ours because it just didn't fit our needs anymore. It felt cramped and the difficulty of getting in and out of bed got to be too much as we aged. Space inside was a big issue. The fridge was giving us problems for a few years and I was tired of fixing it. It seemed other expensive things might fail in the next few years. I knew the body would last longer than me, but I didn't care about whether it was roadworthy when I am 105. We bought a trailer made by a manufacturer (Northwood Mfg.) with a better reputation than Thor, but bought the cheaper model because it suited our needs. If I were going back to 2007 when we bought the Airstream and knew what I know now, I would buy the more expensive model, the Arctic Fox, not an Airstream. It also has a metal frame, but far better insulation, thermopane windows, better floorpans and better workmanship. Sure, some stuff is crap on it and the Nash we bought, but less so than we had in the Airstream. It is easer to tow Airstream and gas mileage is better because of aerodynamics, but other then the cool factor, that seems to be it.

Competition in the RV industry has gotten so intense, quality is being cut at some manufacturers to keep prices low—Thor is one that has brought quality down across the industry by making cheap RV's at low prices. Everyone suffers that way. This is one case where the "good ole days" were actually better.

I know many are in love with their Airstreams. We had many wonderful times with out traveling over much of the US and Canada. We would have had wonderful times in other trailers as well. It was special to have such a cool looking trailer, but that was not enough. There are good reasons for buying an Airstream and good reasons for not buying one. I think it bad form to criticize those who criticize Airstream because of your own needs. We just might be right and our intent may just be honorable.

Drive on and enjoy camping.

[tugboatannie]

Originally Posted by hoagy_007

Justin did take the time to respond back with a personal email. How many others who reached out to him received a response?

I did. Am in the process of putting together a list of “the good, the bad, and the ugly” on our 2015 AI. Don’t know if it’ll help, but hey, if you don’t vote, you can’t complain, my DH always says....

[jhumphreys]

Fellow Streamers-

Justin Humphreys here again. I just want to thank everyone who reached out to me privately and offered to be a part of the proposed Customer quality council as well as those who did so publicly. I had a nice conference call with the original poster, a visit at the factory from another contributor on this thread and a phone call or two as well. So although I haven’t posted in a while, rest assured I have been very active since.

I am in the process of working out the details of how a customer Quality council would work and how we would select the members. It’s been a great experience for me hearing from everyone.

I hope to be sharing some more information on it in the coming months. I appreciate the patience as we determine the process. As you can imagine, my plate has been extremely full with my new role and although I have read every post in this thread, I admittedly do not read every post throughout the forums. We do have people at Airstream who read through many of the posts and we also engage agencies to do the same. Where we see someone with a problem, we do our best to reach out privately to see how we can help. I have asked our folks along with the agencies to send me the posts of those with problems so I can personally read them and share with the appropriate people here at the factory.

I’ll do my best to post more frequently. If you ever have a question, please feel free to reach out to me personally as I check my email frequently- jhumphreys@airstream.com.

On behalf of 996 hard working families here in Jackson Center, OH, thank you for your business and more importantly, your passion for our products! It means the world to us all.

I hope to see many of you on the road some day.

Happy Airstreaming-

Justin Humphreys
COO- Airstream, Inc.