Problem or normal... Water from white drain line when filling toilet

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Streaminfree

Thanks for the response, my dealer said they thought it was just some sort of normal way it monitored the pressure of the water going into the toilet.

But I'm going to try your solution tomorrow, cause although it kinda made sense it also seemed real odd.

Thanks for the reply. If your dealer was wrong about this, I hope you will let us know about what you find.

Thanks,

Peter

[A W Warn]

I think you should stop considering a partially open low point drain valve as the problem. When a valve is open it leaks full time as long as there is water pressure. Using water for flushing the toilet would not start and stop water flow from a open low point drain.

I think there is either a pressure regulator or possibly a back flow preventer that is being activated by the drop in water pressure when the toilet valve is used. I do not know enough about the piping layout in your trailer to say which it is, but I am 100% sure an open low point drain would not cause this problem.

I would call Airstream in Jackson Center and ask to speak with someone in engineering who knows how the plumbing is put together.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Streaminfree

Ok, finally getting back to the post, so it sounds like the 1st answer is no, this is not normal.

2nd... The issue is a low point drain that is partially or completely open.

3rd the valve is a yellow valve likely under the dinette seat. I'll check it out later when everyone is awake as it is currently 4:30 am and I'm only awake because my AC was defrosting and waking up my wife. So I had to figure out how to solve that one.

Gonna be an airstream master before long! I'll be sure to come back and post the conclusion, possibly with some pictures.

Headed to some other posts to see if I can fix the AC defrosting issue.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

I think you should stop considering a partially open low point drain valve as the problem.
. . .

Have you looked at the photo in Post #2? This is not a problem?

Originally Posted by Streaminfree

Attachment 269700 this is photo of what I'm talking about.

The discussion in the thread linked in Post #7 here, and the various sources linked in that other thread, clearly suggest that this low point valve can and definitely should be closed.

Originally Posted by OTRA15

I think this is it. There was a recent thread on this but the OP never confirmed the prognosis. Thread here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f446...ue-153992.html

I will see if I can get the OP's attention with a quote.

Moreover, theroux2104 just stated in Post #18 that he had solved the problem per the salesman at Colonial, who is yet to be identified:

Originally Posted by thoreau2104

. . .
. . . the gentleman that did my walk through originally was able to locate for me.
. . .

Clearly - - - the photo in Post #2 shows a problem.

And just as clearly, the problem is very simple to solve with the twist of a shut-off valve for that low point drain.

Pretty simple stuff really . . .

[A W Warn]

Simple? Please explain how a drain valve can be partially open all of the time, but let a substantial flow of water out at various times?
I'm to simple minded to understand.

I agree that it is a problem. I agree that the photos shows a low point drain pipe. What I disagree on is that it is being cause by a drain valve as shown in the photo above in post #15. I think it is a drain for another purpose. (maybe it lets water out of the exterior shower, which could use a pressure relief valve to drain the shower faucet/riser when pressure is released, or in this case of flushing the toilet, reduced enough to activate the valve)

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Have you looked at the photo in Post #2? This is not a problem?






The discussion in the thread linked in Post #7 here, and the various sources linked in that other thread, clearly suggest that this low point valve can and definitely should be closed.




Moreover, theroux2104 just stated in Post #18 that he had solved the problem per the salesman at Colonial, who is yet to be identified:

Clearly - - - the photo in Post #2 shows a problem.

And just as clearly, the problem is very simple to solve with the twist of a shut-off valve for that low point drain.

Pretty simple stuff really . . .

[OTRA15]

My recollection is that, in that the other thread, and the sources linked therein, the conundrum is explained, or at least the possibilities narrowed quite a bit. I don't have time to re-read all of that material right now. I only know that thoreau2104 just seemed to say that a simple turn of a valve solved the problem (assuming his model is the same as the OP here).

If you have the time to read all of the other threads, and the owner's manuals linked therein, perhaps you can clarify this independently, but the solution is indeed fairly simple IMO, and does not involve the possibilities you suggest.

Let's see what the OP Streaminfree posts before speculating any further.

Have a good Labor Day weekend.

Peter

PS -- Sorry thoreau2104 for misspelling your name before.

PS2 -- The drain valve shown in Post #15 is by a different poster, and involves a different model than the OP here. Clearly not that relevant IMO. Again, as mentioned above, the low point drain here is special to the OP's and thoreau2104's particular model, and unique floor plan configuration, and does involve the toilet somehow. Again, no time to re-digest all the earlier material now.

[lsbrodsky]

On my trailer there is a similar drain and a special valve. It is there to drain a piece of pipe that apparently the low point drains will not drain. My explanation would be that there is a piece of pipe on that trailer that is really not pressurized until you flush the toilet and it needs its own drain. Beats me why they have to do that stuff, but it probably worked out that way because sometime in the past they just ran pipe and heard from owners that it was freeze breaking even though the owners had the low point drains open.
Larry

[OTRA15]

Thanks Larry, could you describe the location of that special valve, relative to the foot pedal for the toilet, and the water discharge inside the toilet? Is the special valve actually inline between the foot pedal and the discharge?

Normally, the valve is part of the toilet, and there would be little if any pipe between it and the discharge. Maybe there are exceptions, which require a short run of pipe downstream from the foot pedal, and a special valve at the low point of the run?

Thanks for any further thoughts.

Peter

[lsbrodsky]

No, my trailer does not have the configuration of the OP. Mine is a FB 25 and the white valve is in the front outside stbd locker. The pipe penetrates the floor of that locker. The pipe that my trailer drains with that valve is next to the water heater. But it is Airstream's style to do a similar thing for a different trailer layout if they conclude they need a drain in addition to the low points under the trailer.
Larry

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the clarification.

[thoreau2104]

First, with it open and spilling water with every flush it took a lot of water to operate your toliet properly.

Second, I was told it was open as part of the winterizing of the unit that Colonial told me that it does little to nothing in winterizing your unit and not to bother going forward. So I got that going for me.

And someone asked who it was who Helped me at colonial. And I don't know his name unfortunately. My sales person was Lauren (she was great). 2 service reps had no idea. It was the guy who does the new owner orientation. He is very thorough but didn't cover this little valve in the orientation. But when we asked him he knew exactly where to go. Apparently it's inky with the 30foot clouds I was told.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by thoreau2104

First, with it open and spilling water with every flush it took a lot of water to operate your toliet properly.
. . .
Apparently it's inky with the 30foot clouds I was told.

Thanks. Can you give us an idea where this valve is located, relative to the foot pedal flush, and the water discharge inside the toilet? Is there a pipe between these two locations, which has its own unique low point particular to your model?

If you blow out your lines with an air compressor, you should be fine for winterization IMO, as long as you press on the foot pedal flush, and wait until just air comes out inside the toilet bowl. There are plenty of winterization threads to read, when we get to that time of year. Plenty!

Happy Trails, and thanks again for the update.

Peter

[thoreau2104]

No pedal to flush on my unit. I believe >25ft FC have a macerator toliet. 1 Side of button fills and the other half flushes. Another button allows for a dry flush before you start your departure for a dry toliet.

As I said before the valve is behind the vent located under the kitchen drawers.

You would think the valve would be near the toilet but it is not. The toliet has a valve but that is a water turn off/on for bowl itself I believe.

[OTRA15]

Thanks, the plot thickens!

[Streaminfree]

Originally Posted by thoreau2104

Called Colonial, dealer where I purchased new, and they tried to walk me though of how to find this white valve. I was unsuccessful after three calls, 1 service call when they never addressed that issue but completed the other repairs and finally I brought the trailer in and the gentleman that did my walk through originally was able to locate for me. Which is quite easy when you know where it is and the toliet bowl works 10x better once you close it.



It's located by popping off the ducted vent under the kitchen drawers. I was told back to the left but it is indeed to the right and located directly under the duct that you will need to push aside. You will need a flashlight as it is difficult to see and maneuver.



You shouldn't need to remove any drawers. But to give yourself some more space and more light you may want to work the bottom drawer free. Getting the drawers off easy. Back on is a little tricky. Good luck.

Ok thorough, so I think I found what you refer to, see pics but it looks like it is open. Should it be shut? That is what I am going to do. Did you shut yours all the way or just partially?

Thanks for the help. And would I assume that when I winterize I will want to reopen?

[Streaminfree]

Ok so once again air forum saves the day, thank you all. So, final results were just as Thorough explained.

My toilet doesn't require me to stand there for 3 minutes filling the toilet up now. And I imagine my fresh water tank will last a bit longer when boondocking. Plush the extra bit of power seems to clean up the toilet a little better during the flush.

What I have learned...

It appears one of the consistencies between mine and Thorough's situation is this macerator toilet with the push button toilet fills and flushes. So, if you have water leaking out a white conduit and you have a macerator toilet on an airstream flying cloud 30fb you may need this solution.

2nd, if you have a hunch something is wrong, you are likely right even if the dealer says otherwise.

3rd this forum is great for all sorts of crazy issues! Thanks again.

I made a video of the solution and will be posting on our YouTube site later once I get it edited. Feel free to follow out adventures at

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...f3_pGiSKRTyxHi

Thanks again for the help.

[Streaminfree]

Whoops, just checked and I spelled thoreau2104 name wrong in all the posts.

Forgive me!

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the photos and additional details. I thought it might be pretty simple once you found it.

The question seems to remain, however, what is the function of this plumbing line, and why did it discharge only when the toilet was flushed? Seems like it may indeed be some kind of overflow or pressure relief line for the macerator toilet's flush system? [See A. W. Warn's educated guesses in Post #24]

thoreau2104, if you feel like it maybe you could call Colonial back and talk with the person who helped you locate the valve? Maybe he can clarify the function of this plumbing line under the flexible heating duct.

Also, in terms of winterizing the trailer, if this is some kind of discharge line downstream of the macerator toilet, and a true low point, it does seem important to open the valve before freezing weather IMO.

Thanks,

Peter

PS -- A second question is -- where is the actual drop where the water line penetrates down through the floor, to discharge the water? Is it to the left or right of the shut-off valve pictured in the top photo in Post #34?

Originally Posted by thoreau2104

. . .
It was the guy who does the new owner orientation. He is very thorough but didn't cover this little valve in the orientation. But when we asked him he knew exactly where to go. Apparently it's inky with the 30foot clouds I was told.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Streaminfree

Whoops, just checked and I spelled thoreau2104 name wrong in all the posts.

Forgive me!

FYi within a brief time window after you post, you can Edit posts.

[thoreau2104]

I was told by Colonial service dept that this particular valve is not part of the winterization process. Because when it is opened it does not just drain like a water heater or freshwater tank valve.

Why the valve exists they told me "we don't know." Maybe a technician at service does know but the service department does not. So it's closed and I am never touching it again. ��

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by thoreau2104

I was told by Colonial service dept that this particular valve is not part of the winterization process. Because when it is opened it does not just drain like a water heater or freshwater tank valve.

Why the valve exists they told me "we don't know." Maybe a technician at service does know but the service department does not. So it's closed and I am never touching it again. ��

Thanks for the update. Personally I would ask them to put this in writing. I would also consider emailing Patrick Botticelli, one of the main salespeople, for confirmation that you can skip this valve when you winterize. [edit -- also the user "Colonial Airstream" here.]

This does not make sense to me.

Is there a separate instruction manual for the macerator toilet which sheds any light on this?

Good luck!

Peter