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01-02-2020, 04:08 AM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2018 27' Flying Cloud
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 375
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Issues and fixes for the table
Seems my initial post got eaten. grrr...
Anyhow, for the past 6-9 months, or more precisely after our last warranty repair to get the subwoofer fixed, I've run into an issue where the screws on the table that attach to the brackets came loose.
Fix 1: fill with wood filler epoxy. This worked for exactly one trip.
Fix 2: fill with hollow wall anchors and epoxy in place. This worked for exactly one trip.
On our last trip I opened the door to find the table partly pulled away from the wall and the table leg broken (more later on that). FYI... this is on a 2018 27FB Flying Cloud.
Final fix: cut two metal pieces of metal and place along the back edge of the table. Secure in place in multiple locations and attach brackets using metal screws that secure into the metal and not the wood. This has made the table very secure and I'm not exactly sure why Airstream isn't doing this from the factory. The fact that you put a lot of stress on screws that are only ⅝-in. long and go into wood seems pretty silly to me. It would cost them less than $1.00 to do this at the factory and provide a much more secure platform.
To the table leg... the leg itself is fine, but when the table pulled away from the wall, it broke the mechanism that keeps the leg from swinging down. You can still lock it upright, but it won't stay folded under.
I looked at replacing the mechanism, but in the end, I decided to fix the table properly and get rid of the swinging leg and ditch the brackets attached to the wall all together. Instead, I'm stealing a page from Airstream by using pedestal (what I think is the same pedestal they use on special edition models and the 26U). I ordered a Springfield Marine 1660230 table pedestal which should be here next week. I really feel that while a bit pricey, it's the proper way to have a stable table.
Here's a question though. Anybody know what I'm dealing with on the floor? When I attach the pedestal to the floor, I want to ensure I don't put in anchors that are too long. But I have no idea the depth of the wood under the flooring. Anybody done any work on their recent Airstream and have any idea if it's just ¾ ply or is there a bit more to it?
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01-02-2020, 04:45 AM
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#2
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GLCMRANGER - Sue
2016 25' International
Littlestown
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 334
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I installed the same pedestal to the floor... don't go more than 3/4 below the floor plus the height of the pedestal flooring base. I also used Sikaflex 221 to "glue" the base to the floor since I didn't want to totally rely on those screws in the plywood.... good luck.
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01-02-2020, 05:16 AM
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#3
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4 Rivet Member
2011 27 FB International
East Coast
, Newfoundland
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 383
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They have one in the scratch and dent section at a 50% discount. Apparently only used at trade shows.
http://www.springfieldmarinescratcha...just-14-to-28/
__________________
[AIR# 55762 TAC# NFL-1
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01-02-2020, 07:34 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Issues and fixes for the table
Had similar concerns but table never came loose or stripped any screws. Did have a lot of rattling and scratching on the interior near the brackets, and a bad scuff in the vinyl floor under the leg. Used a carpet scrap under the leg to stop the rubbing. Really hated putting the table up and down on trips. Got tired of that and went looking for a better answer.
Replacing with a very sturdy 12 volt DC power-operated table pedestal I found online and a guide channel on the wall to keep it perfectly aligned. My 2007 has no tanks under the dinette area so I used some 2 inch long #14 stainless steel sheet metal screws in the six holes base to tie it down. Still a project in progress as I need to find a spot to mount the switch. So far it looks nice and is very convenient way to adjust the table height. We’ll see how durable it is on the next trip.
No, I don’t have data on the pedestal. It was a clearance item I grabbed a couple years ago. Looked at marine supply stores online to find one. Critical item is the dimension when totally collapsed. It needs to be equal or less than the height of the table when down to make up the bed. Mine is a couple inches too high, but we don’t use the dinettes sleeping area as a rule. We travel with the table fully up most of the time anyway.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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01-02-2020, 07:57 AM
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#5
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1 Rivet Member
2018 27' International
Glen Allen
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
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I did the same thing shortly after purchasing our 2018 27FB. it gets transitioned every night we camp for the kids to sleep on and the hinged setup on the wall was a pain, especially for my wife.
I purchased the same springfield table pedestal (it's identical to the Airstream part and is a fraction of the cost.) I believe my local dealer wanted 1k for the part from Airstream. It comes with the stainless screws to attach it to the floor. Out of precaution as not to shoot a screw into a gas line or what not, I pulled the back section of belly pan aluminum down to see what was below the table. There wasn't anything for a screw to hit. I did add some wood spacers on top of the pedestal to increase the height of the table a little bit because it wasn't as tall as it was in the factory position. It has been a great upgrade for us and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. We leave the table in the up position going down the road without any issues. I just put the screws back into the holes on the back wall where the brackets are. It hasn't bothered me to look at it. I suppose i could put rivets in.....
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01-02-2020, 08:29 AM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
2018 27' Flying Cloud
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMT
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That's a great price! About $100 less than I paid!
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01-02-2020, 10:05 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1972 25' Tradewind
1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
Denver
, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMT
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Just clicked "buy" on this, and there's another still listed, so I assume they have multiples from the trade show circuit. I'm tempted to buy another for the next build.
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01-02-2020, 10:07 AM
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#9
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2 Rivet Member
2021 25' Globetrotter
Poulsbo
, Washington
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 31
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Same issue and concern!
The dinette table and leg design was one of the first issues that we encountered when we purchased our 2017 FC 25RTB. The leg latching mechanism broke and the leg would not fold and lock correctly, and I had to dismantle the whole thing and re-secure it with better screws and washers (a painful exercise). It works fine now, but I dislike the design of the clamps that slip into the front panel. I have had to bend those back a few times to pull the table closer to the front wall. All in all, it is a cheap and unsteady design and I have considered adding a pedestal as described in these posts. It is a shame that Airstream continues with this configuration, especially since they have switched to a pedestal in many newer and more expensive models. They must certainly understand the problem. Otherwise, we love our Airstream and have no other issues!
Many thanks to everyone for their posts and links on this issue. I am going to take another hard look at doing this upgrade soon, and any other feedback and ideas are encouraged!
==================
2017 FC 25 RTB
2019 F150 Platinum
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01-02-2020, 10:51 AM
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#10
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Journeyman
2016 25' International
Amherst
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 956
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Made my table a drop leaf so I don't have to remove cushions to lower it.
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01-02-2020, 10:51 AM
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#11
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Journeyman
2016 25' International
Amherst
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thiel
Made my table a drop leaf so I don't have to remove cushions to lower it.
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Also, mounted it to the ceiling so it's outta the way!
(Sorry about the rotation...)
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01-02-2020, 10:57 AM
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#12
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.-. -...
2017 25' International
Niagara-on-the-Lake
, ON Canada
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,837
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What tire pressure are you running in the trailer tires? It sounds like your trailer is riding a bit too stiffly.
__________________
Ray B.
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01-02-2020, 01:56 PM
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#13
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3 Rivet Member
2018 27' Flying Cloud
Easton
, PA
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 169
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I have also been considering ditching the current dinette table setup in my 2018 FC27 and going to the pedestal mentioned above! Love that others have done the same and are happy with it. Curious to know if 1) there is any loss of "sturdiness" versus the original setup with 2 connection points on the wall and the leg on the other end, and 2) would two pedestals be overkill?
Thanks!
__________________
VeloBuckeye
2018 Flying Cloud 27FB - "The Shoe"
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01-02-2020, 03:28 PM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
2017 25' Flying Cloud
Woodway
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 155
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Might also try drilling out the existing hole with a 3/8" bit then fill the hole with a piece of 3/8" oak dowel secured with yellow carpenter's glue. In a couple of hours, drill to fit your 5/8" screws.
We've done similar repairs on the curved kitchen cabinet hinges but using longer screws than the originals which are still OK a little over a year later.
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01-02-2020, 03:33 PM
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#15
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emelaich01
Might also try drilling out the existing hole with a 3/8" bit then fill the hole with a piece of 3/8" oak dowel secured with yellow carpenter's glue. In a couple of hours, drill to fit your 5/8" screws.
We've done similar repairs on the curved kitchen cabinet hinges but using longer screws than the originals which are still OK a little over a year later.
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This is what I did for the attachment points of the clamps that hold the 2 halves of my 26U's dining table together. I have about 8k miles on the trailer since the upgrade, with no loosening of the clamps since then.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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01-02-2020, 03:41 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2016 28' International
Trois-Rivieres
, Quebec
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 701
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Replace screws with Olympic rivets
Similarly, in our trailer, two table wall bracket screws would come loose and extend, which would prevent the lowering of the table.
Finally decided to replace the screws with Olympic rivets, which once shaved and polished with a Dremel, look just like an original buck rivet and solidly hold the table brackets in place, no matter the road vibration.
__________________
2016 International Signature CCD, RBQ, Dual A/C, 28'
2018 GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD, 4x4, Crew Cab, Duramax Diesel, Leer cap
Lift kit, 16" wheels, Michelin Agilis CC LT
DIY Solar: 500W Renogy panels, AM Solar hdw, Blue Sky MPPT controller, 470ah Rolls battery bank, 2000W Renogy inverter.
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01-02-2020, 05:02 PM
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#17
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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RV dinette tables I have seen are usually the same cheap setup Airstream uses. We found our table flipped over a few tines because we always traveled with it up. Because it is an annoyance to drop the table down, I expect few people do it. The first time I used larger screws in the top of the leg where it attaches to the table. Eventually the leg would not fold and I just locked it upright with a bolt through it and a nut. And in our next RV I put a hook under each seat and attached a bungee cord over the table to each hook. The table stays more stable that way and as less like to tear away from anything. Depending which way the table faces, it is either subject to a lot of force when turning or stopping (I doubt anyone accelerates that fast to make a difference). Stabilizing as best you can may prevent the other problems.
Another way to secure the table to the brackets or leg is to glue a piece of wood underneath the table to increase the thickness a screw has to hold to. Drilling a pilot hole into the table risks drilling through the other side (ask me another time for creative solutions to that problem). The thicker the table, the less likely to drill through plus you get thicker wood. You can use a slightly larger diameter screw plus Locktite, but a longer one certainly helps. If you use a 1/4-1/2 piece of wood underneath the brackets, do the leg to keep the table level. Use a very strong glue like Titebond 3—it is stringer than most woods, so you'll not every want to try to separate the two pieces of wood. Tp prevent drilling too deep, there are things that attach to drill bits as stops—but I never can find them when I need them, so I just make a line on the bit with a grease pencil. I assure you that doesn't always work when you make the hole a little deeper than you should have, but it helps.
So, bigger, longer screws plus Locktite for wood screws (there are different types of Locktite) to prevent them from tearing out and making the table less likely to move much while driving should fix the problem.
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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01-03-2020, 02:44 AM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
2018 27' Flying Cloud
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emelaich01
Might also try drilling out the existing hole with a 3/8" bit then fill the hole with a piece of 3/8" oak dowel secured with yellow carpenter's glue. In a couple of hours, drill to fit your 5/8" screws.
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Actually, putting the metal plates on, and then using sheet metal screws which dig into the metal work great. The beauty of doing this is you're never relying on the bracket screws to be held in by wood, that's now done by screws at several different points which helps to off-set the stress. I considered using a dowel as well, but in the end I had just had enough of trying to put stress on that area of the table with screws and wood.
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01-03-2020, 02:49 AM
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#19
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4 Rivet Member
2018 27' Flying Cloud
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene
To prevent drilling too deep, there are things that attach to drill bits as stops—but I never can find them when I need them, so I just make a line on the bit with a grease pencil. I assure you that doesn't always work when you make the hole a little deeper than you should have, but it helps.
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One quick and easy way to help prevent this is to use a piece of masking tape or painter's tape. Wrap that around the bit indicating the depth you want to go and just drill until you come to the tape line. Much easier to see than a line on the drill bit.
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01-03-2020, 10:10 AM
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#20
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Journeyman
2016 25' International
Amherst
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloBuckeye
I have also been considering ditching the current dinette table setup in my 2018 FC27 and going to the pedestal mentioned above! Love that others have done the same and are happy with it. Curious to know if 1) there is any loss of "sturdiness" versus the original setup with 2 connection points on the wall and the leg on the other end, and 2) would two pedestals be overkill?
Thanks!
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I would say it's similarly (un)stable, but in a different way. You will find that you don't want to push on the corners of it to get up.... but I have two teenagers in my trailer and they haven't broken it yet. One of them (6 feet, 200 pounds) sleeps on the dinette at night too and I don't see any real looseness emerging.
The cylinder can be tightened pretty easily and the base is quite large, so it does not feel like you are going to rip it out of the floor. I did attach an extra piece of 3/4 ply to the bottom of my tabletop to give the screws a little more meat.
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