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Old 01-02-2020, 05:08 AM   #1
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2018 27' Flying Cloud
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Issues and fixes for the table

Seems my initial post got eaten. grrr...

Anyhow, for the past 6-9 months, or more precisely after our last warranty repair to get the subwoofer fixed, I've run into an issue where the screws on the table that attach to the brackets came loose.

Fix 1: fill with wood filler epoxy. This worked for exactly one trip.
Fix 2: fill with hollow wall anchors and epoxy in place. This worked for exactly one trip.

On our last trip I opened the door to find the table partly pulled away from the wall and the table leg broken (more later on that). FYI... this is on a 2018 27FB Flying Cloud.

Final fix: cut two metal pieces of metal and place along the back edge of the table. Secure in place in multiple locations and attach brackets using metal screws that secure into the metal and not the wood. This has made the table very secure and I'm not exactly sure why Airstream isn't doing this from the factory. The fact that you put a lot of stress on screws that are only ⅝-in. long and go into wood seems pretty silly to me. It would cost them less than $1.00 to do this at the factory and provide a much more secure platform.

To the table leg... the leg itself is fine, but when the table pulled away from the wall, it broke the mechanism that keeps the leg from swinging down. You can still lock it upright, but it won't stay folded under.

I looked at replacing the mechanism, but in the end, I decided to fix the table properly and get rid of the swinging leg and ditch the brackets attached to the wall all together. Instead, I'm stealing a page from Airstream by using pedestal (what I think is the same pedestal they use on special edition models and the 26U). I ordered a Springfield Marine 1660230 table pedestal which should be here next week. I really feel that while a bit pricey, it's the proper way to have a stable table.

Here's a question though. Anybody know what I'm dealing with on the floor? When I attach the pedestal to the floor, I want to ensure I don't put in anchors that are too long. But I have no idea the depth of the wood under the flooring. Anybody done any work on their recent Airstream and have any idea if it's just ¾ ply or is there a bit more to it?
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Old 01-02-2020, 05:45 AM   #2
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2016 25' International
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I installed the same pedestal to the floor... don't go more than 3/4 below the floor plus the height of the pedestal flooring base. I also used Sikaflex 221 to "glue" the base to the floor since I didn't want to totally rely on those screws in the plywood.... good luck.
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:16 AM   #3
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They have one in the scratch and dent section at a 50% discount. Apparently only used at trade shows.


http://www.springfieldmarinescratcha...just-14-to-28/
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:34 AM   #4
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Issues and fixes for the table

Had similar concerns but table never came loose or stripped any screws. Did have a lot of rattling and scratching on the interior near the brackets, and a bad scuff in the vinyl floor under the leg. Used a carpet scrap under the leg to stop the rubbing. Really hated putting the table up and down on trips. Got tired of that and went looking for a better answer.

Replacing with a very sturdy 12 volt DC power-operated table pedestal I found online and a guide channel on the wall to keep it perfectly aligned. My 2007 has no tanks under the dinette area so I used some 2 inch long #14 stainless steel sheet metal screws in the six holes base to tie it down. Still a project in progress as I need to find a spot to mount the switch. So far it looks nice and is very convenient way to adjust the table height. We’ll see how durable it is on the next trip.

No, I don’t have data on the pedestal. It was a clearance item I grabbed a couple years ago. Looked at marine supply stores online to find one. Critical item is the dimension when totally collapsed. It needs to be equal or less than the height of the table when down to make up the bed. Mine is a couple inches too high, but we don’t use the dinettes sleeping area as a rule. We travel with the table fully up most of the time anyway.
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Old 01-02-2020, 08:57 AM   #5
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I did the same thing shortly after purchasing our 2018 27FB. it gets transitioned every night we camp for the kids to sleep on and the hinged setup on the wall was a pain, especially for my wife.
I purchased the same springfield table pedestal (it's identical to the Airstream part and is a fraction of the cost.) I believe my local dealer wanted 1k for the part from Airstream. It comes with the stainless screws to attach it to the floor. Out of precaution as not to shoot a screw into a gas line or what not, I pulled the back section of belly pan aluminum down to see what was below the table. There wasn't anything for a screw to hit. I did add some wood spacers on top of the pedestal to increase the height of the table a little bit because it wasn't as tall as it was in the factory position. It has been a great upgrade for us and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. We leave the table in the up position going down the road without any issues. I just put the screws back into the holes on the back wall where the brackets are. It hasn't bothered me to look at it. I suppose i could put rivets in.....
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Old 01-02-2020, 09:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMT View Post
They have one in the scratch and dent section at a 50% discount. Apparently only used at trade shows.


http://www.springfieldmarinescratcha...just-14-to-28/
That's a great price! About $100 less than I paid!
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:14 AM   #7
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Best place I've found for the pedestal is here:
https://www.llebroc.com/product-p/spr-1660230.htm

If you're looking for a closeup view of it, I did a quick YouTube look at it here:
https://youtu.be/kq8f_dU8HGk

I hope that helps!
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMT View Post
They have one in the scratch and dent section at a 50% discount. Apparently only used at trade shows.

http://www.springfieldmarinescratcha...just-14-to-28/
Just clicked "buy" on this, and there's another still listed, so I assume they have multiples from the trade show circuit. I'm tempted to buy another for the next build.
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:07 AM   #9
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Thumbs up Same issue and concern!

The dinette table and leg design was one of the first issues that we encountered when we purchased our 2017 FC 25RTB. The leg latching mechanism broke and the leg would not fold and lock correctly, and I had to dismantle the whole thing and re-secure it with better screws and washers (a painful exercise). It works fine now, but I dislike the design of the clamps that slip into the front panel. I have had to bend those back a few times to pull the table closer to the front wall. All in all, it is a cheap and unsteady design and I have considered adding a pedestal as described in these posts. It is a shame that Airstream continues with this configuration, especially since they have switched to a pedestal in many newer and more expensive models. They must certainly understand the problem. Otherwise, we love our Airstream and have no other issues!

Many thanks to everyone for their posts and links on this issue. I am going to take another hard look at doing this upgrade soon, and any other feedback and ideas are encouraged!

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Old 01-02-2020, 11:51 AM   #10
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Made my table a drop leaf so I don't have to remove cushions to lower it.
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by thiel View Post
Made my table a drop leaf so I don't have to remove cushions to lower it.
Also, mounted it to the ceiling so it's outta the way!





(Sorry about the rotation...)
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:57 AM   #12
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What tire pressure are you running in the trailer tires? It sounds like your trailer is riding a bit too stiffly.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:56 PM   #13
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I have also been considering ditching the current dinette table setup in my 2018 FC27 and going to the pedestal mentioned above! Love that others have done the same and are happy with it. Curious to know if 1) there is any loss of "sturdiness" versus the original setup with 2 connection points on the wall and the leg on the other end, and 2) would two pedestals be overkill?

Thanks!
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:28 PM   #14
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Might also try drilling out the existing hole with a 3/8" bit then fill the hole with a piece of 3/8" oak dowel secured with yellow carpenter's glue. In a couple of hours, drill to fit your 5/8" screws.

We've done similar repairs on the curved kitchen cabinet hinges but using longer screws than the originals which are still OK a little over a year later.
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by emelaich01 View Post
Might also try drilling out the existing hole with a 3/8" bit then fill the hole with a piece of 3/8" oak dowel secured with yellow carpenter's glue. In a couple of hours, drill to fit your 5/8" screws.

We've done similar repairs on the curved kitchen cabinet hinges but using longer screws than the originals which are still OK a little over a year later.
This is what I did for the attachment points of the clamps that hold the 2 halves of my 26U's dining table together. I have about 8k miles on the trailer since the upgrade, with no loosening of the clamps since then.
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:41 PM   #16
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Replace screws with Olympic rivets

Similarly, in our trailer, two table wall bracket screws would come loose and extend, which would prevent the lowering of the table.

Finally decided to replace the screws with Olympic rivets, which once shaved and polished with a Dremel, look just like an original buck rivet and solidly hold the table brackets in place, no matter the road vibration.
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:02 PM   #17
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RV dinette tables I have seen are usually the same cheap setup Airstream uses. We found our table flipped over a few tines because we always traveled with it up. Because it is an annoyance to drop the table down, I expect few people do it. The first time I used larger screws in the top of the leg where it attaches to the table. Eventually the leg would not fold and I just locked it upright with a bolt through it and a nut. And in our next RV I put a hook under each seat and attached a bungee cord over the table to each hook. The table stays more stable that way and as less like to tear away from anything. Depending which way the table faces, it is either subject to a lot of force when turning or stopping (I doubt anyone accelerates that fast to make a difference). Stabilizing as best you can may prevent the other problems.

Another way to secure the table to the brackets or leg is to glue a piece of wood underneath the table to increase the thickness a screw has to hold to. Drilling a pilot hole into the table risks drilling through the other side (ask me another time for creative solutions to that problem). The thicker the table, the less likely to drill through plus you get thicker wood. You can use a slightly larger diameter screw plus Locktite, but a longer one certainly helps. If you use a 1/4-1/2 piece of wood underneath the brackets, do the leg to keep the table level. Use a very strong glue like Titebond 3—it is stringer than most woods, so you'll not every want to try to separate the two pieces of wood. Tp prevent drilling too deep, there are things that attach to drill bits as stops—but I never can find them when I need them, so I just make a line on the bit with a grease pencil. I assure you that doesn't always work when you make the hole a little deeper than you should have, but it helps.

So, bigger, longer screws plus Locktite for wood screws (there are different types of Locktite) to prevent them from tearing out and making the table less likely to move much while driving should fix the problem.
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:44 AM   #18
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Might also try drilling out the existing hole with a 3/8" bit then fill the hole with a piece of 3/8" oak dowel secured with yellow carpenter's glue. In a couple of hours, drill to fit your 5/8" screws.
Actually, putting the metal plates on, and then using sheet metal screws which dig into the metal work great. The beauty of doing this is you're never relying on the bracket screws to be held in by wood, that's now done by screws at several different points which helps to off-set the stress. I considered using a dowel as well, but in the end I had just had enough of trying to put stress on that area of the table with screws and wood.
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:49 AM   #19
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To prevent drilling too deep, there are things that attach to drill bits as stops—but I never can find them when I need them, so I just make a line on the bit with a grease pencil. I assure you that doesn't always work when you make the hole a little deeper than you should have, but it helps.
One quick and easy way to help prevent this is to use a piece of masking tape or painter's tape. Wrap that around the bit indicating the depth you want to go and just drill until you come to the tape line. Much easier to see than a line on the drill bit.
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:10 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by VeloBuckeye View Post
I have also been considering ditching the current dinette table setup in my 2018 FC27 and going to the pedestal mentioned above! Love that others have done the same and are happy with it. Curious to know if 1) there is any loss of "sturdiness" versus the original setup with 2 connection points on the wall and the leg on the other end, and 2) would two pedestals be overkill?

Thanks!
I would say it's similarly (un)stable, but in a different way. You will find that you don't want to push on the corners of it to get up.... but I have two teenagers in my trailer and they haven't broken it yet. One of them (6 feet, 200 pounds) sleeps on the dinette at night too and I don't see any real looseness emerging.

The cylinder can be tightened pretty easily and the base is quite large, so it does not feel like you are going to rip it out of the floor. I did attach an extra piece of 3/4 ply to the bottom of my tabletop to give the screws a little more meat.
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