Hitch weight on 25FB VS 25RB

[Bob662]

My FC 25'FB-T, loaded with all camping equipment but no fluids (other than full propane), weighed at the hitch using a Sherline, is 920 pounds.

There seems to be considerable variation among same models, assuming the scales are the same, measured at the hitch and are accurate -- a big assumption.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by cru-in

The only way to really way to know how much weight the trailer is imparting to the truck is on a CAT scale. That takes into account the weight, and effect, of the WDH. It will show you if the truck is approaching its' GVWR and what each axle is loaded to.

Maybe...For the CAT's, the heavier the load the more accurate they are.
A 50lb difference in TW for an AS can make a considerable difference in towability. The CAT may not see that at all.

Bob
🇺🇸

Examples....look carefully, notice the variations in the totals.

[cru-in]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Maybe...For the CAT's, the heavier the load the more accurate they are.
A 50lb difference in TW for an AS can make a considerable difference in towability. The CAT may not see that at all.

Bob
����

Examples....look carefully, notice the variations in the totals.

Interesting , thinking about it, These scales are probably +/- 50 pounds accurate....at best

thanks tons for posting your three CAT Scale numbers. No WD, Max WD, and WD Set. Shows, in your configuration, the "max WD" transfers about 250 pounds off the TV to the AS axles.

[Belbein]

Dayleocum, I want to send you a pm if I may--late today, say in the PM--about a couple of things you said. May I?

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by Bob662

FC 25'FB-T, loaded with all camping equipment but no fluids (other than full propane), weighed at the hitch using a Sherline, is 920 pounds.

I'm actually referring to ALL of the our-measured-weight-is-higher-than-Airstream's-published-weight e-mail. Thank you. I appreciate your time and sweat doing the empircal research.

I'll have more to say about all this and how it affected my buying decision and indecision. But not quite yet.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by cru-in

Interesting , thinking about it, These scales are probably +/- 50 pounds accurate....at best

thanks tons for posting your three CAT Scale numbers. No WD, Max WD, and WD Set. Shows, in your configuration, the "max WD" transfers about 250 pounds off the TV to the AS axles.

No problem...

The ticket not posted was the loaded TV alone.
Illustrating the TV front axle weight, it is the baseline target number I use to set the WD.
No ill effects at 160lb light for that load, the numbers do change as the total weight varies.

Bob
🇺🇸

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by cru-in

Interesting , thinking about it, These scales are probably +/- 50 pounds accurate....at best

thanks tons for posting your three CAT Scale numbers. No WD, Max WD, and WD Set. Shows, in your configuration, the "max WD" transfers about 250 pounds off the TV to the AS axles.

Is that "accurate" what you said?? Where did you get that "+-50lbs accurate"? I would be surprised if they were off that much...maybe 5 or 10lbs...interesting to see the scale weights on the tow vehicle match the specs on GVW but the AS is way over specs it seems on the TW...
Anyone out there know if the CAT scales are that far out of whack?
(+-50lbs?)

[cru-in]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Is that "accurate" what you said?? Where did you get that "+-50lbs accurate"? I would be surprised if they were off that much...maybe 5 or 10lbs...interesting to see the scale weights on the tow vehicle match the specs on GVW but the AS is way over specs it seems on the TW...
Anyone out there know if the CAT scales are that far out of whack?
(+-50lbs?)

I was simply offering an opinion. hence the use of "probably" .

However, it is not to hard to find what the legal accuracy requirement is (just use google). Click on the link below and scroll down to the table Titled: "Legal-for-Trade Allowable Error" .

It is a function of the weight. At 10K, the allowable error is +/-40 pounds and 20K it is +/-80 pounds.

So my opinion of +/- 50 pounds is not too far off for the legal allowable error. Consider the typical AS and TV is around 15K pounds. The legally allowed error is more like +/- 60 pounds..

https://www.bradysystems.com/truck-scale-accuracy/

A given truck scale may be better. However this shows the legal minimum accuracy.

[ROBERT CROSS]

snip////QUOTE .... Click on the link below and scroll down to the table Titled: "Legal-for-Trade Allowable Error" .



Or just look at our CAT tickets...60lb difference in gross weight, same rig same load, same CAT.

Bob
🇺🇸

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by Belbein

Dayleocum, I want to send you a pm if I may--late today, say in the PM--about a couple of things you said. May I?

Of course. Sent you a PM.

[AbuFarley]

test

[AbuFarley]

I have been following this. I want to reply, but it's not about 25 Flying Clouds specifically. It's about Airstream corporate. I'll start a new thread in the "Towing & Hitches/Hitches, Couplers, & Balls"

[garylind]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

No problem...



The ticket not posted was the loaded TV alone.

Illustrating the TV front axle weight, it is the baseline target number I use to set the WD.

No ill effects at 160lb light for that load, the numbers do change as the total weight varies.



Bob

[emoji631]

Have a 2016 Airstream FC RBT and 2017 Ford F150 Lariat and Just weighed at CAT scale for first time and results are: Steer Axle 3260;Drive Axle 3540 and trailer axle 5520. for a total of 12,320 pounds. Truck has a CVWR of 7,000; front GAWR of 3525, rear GAWR of 3,800. Airstream has weight rating of 7,300 pounds and 850 pound tongue weight. Truck available payload is 1709 pounds set up with an Equalizer hitch and tows very well.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by garylind

Have a 2016 Airstream FC RBT and 2017 Ford F150 Lariat and Just weighed at CAT scale for first time and results are: Steer Axle 3260;Drive Axle 3540 and trailer axle 5520. for a total of 12,320 pounds. Truck has a CVWR of 7,000; front GAWR of 3525, rear GAWR of 3,800. Airstream has weight rating of 7,300 pounds and 850 pound tongue weight. Truck available payload is 1709 pounds set up with an Equalizer hitch and tows very well.

Did you "weigh" your tongue or are you trusting the AS specs? Important to weigh on the scales to verify (also helps with knowing what pressure you want to run in your tires, assuming you follow the load PSI charts).

If in doubt take to a different scale to verify/compare your weights if in doubt of the scales.

[cru-in]

Originally Posted by garylind

Have a 2016 Airstream FC RBT and 2017 Ford F150 Lariat and Just weighed at CAT scale for first time and results are: Steer Axle 3260;Drive Axle 3540 and trailer axle 5520. for a total of 12,320 pounds. Truck has a CVWR of 7,000; front GAWR of 3525, rear GAWR of 3,800. Airstream has weight rating of 7,300 pounds and 850 pound tongue weight. Truck available payload is 1709 pounds set up with an Equalizer hitch and tows very well.

Rough numbers:

GCVW- Allowed Payload = Truck Curb Weight.
7000-1700 = 5300 pounds is about your truck's Curb Weight when new

(Steer Axle weight+ Drive axle weight)-Truck Curb weight = Actual Payload on Truck
(3260 + 3540)-5300 = 1500 pounds of actual payload.

So you are using up about 1500 pounds of the 1700 allowed

Not sure how much of that is stuff (you, tools, generator, tonneau, etc.) in the truck and how much is imparted from the TT.

What all was in the truck when you measured this?

Most folks report a loaded AS 25RBT, after application of WD, to impart about 800 to 875 pounds to TV. So it would seam you have about 600 to 700 pounds of stuff in the truck.

I think I have that right.

[cru-in]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Did you "weigh" your tongue or are you trusting the AS specs? Important to weigh on the scales to verify (also helps with knowing what pressure you want to run in your tires, assuming you follow the load PSI charts).

If in doubt take to a different scale to verify/compare your weights if in doubt of the scales.

IMHO, what he did is better. Much more than dry TW, I care about the weight imparted to the AS, with WD engaged and AS loaded for travel.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by cru-in

IMHO, what he did is better. Much more than dry TW, I care about the weight imparted to the AS, with WD engaged and AS loaded for travel.

Think it's important to know your actual TW. Helps to understand /know what the load is on both TV and TT; both loaded and unloaded; Always good to know where you are vs the actual Mfg. specs on your TV. IMHO.. No guessing..(except for faulty scales I suppose...)

[Big Thunder]

No offence, but I just don't understand why some people have the lightest pick-up truck on the market, then go shopping for one of the most expensive trailers
they can find. Then tear their hair out trying to make the numbers work which
usually wind up right at the limit line. My advice people, get at least a 3/4 ton
pick up with a strong engine! Driving, road, weather and load conditions can drastically effect towing any trailer. Why wouldn't you want a safety margin of error! You put your life and the life of others at risk just to save a buck towing with a marginally capable vehicle. It's just baffling to see people buy a 1/2 ton truck, then spend countless hours (and money) trying to make it perform what a 3/4 ton truck will do easily, and safely.

[Gsmblue]

Originally Posted by Big Thunder

No offence, but I just don't understand why some people have the lightest pick-up truck on the market, then go shopping for one of the most expensive trailers
they can find. Then tear their hair out trying to make the numbers work which
usually wind up right at the limit line. My advice people, get at least a 3/4 ton
pick up with a strong engine! Driving, road, weather and load conditions can drastically effect towing any trailer. Why wouldn't you want a safety margin of error! You put your life and the life of others at risk just to save a buck towing with a marginally capable vehicle. It's just baffling to see people buy a 1/2 ton truck, then spend countless hours (and money) trying to make it perform what a 3/4 ton truck will do easily, and safely.

I understand your perspective, but i do not align with it. For example - A 3/4 ton truck is a big step up from a 1/2 ton in every way, including size. If it is to be a daily driver there is a huge compromise here.

The 1/2 ton class SUV works well for me. A little more payload would be nice but is not essential. The newer ones seem to have more capacity and are on the list for the next vehicle.

We all do things a little different!

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by Big Thunder

offence, ... lightest pick-up truck on the market ... most expensive trailers

I'm sure you're NOT trying to be offensive, but perhaps you don't remember what things were like when you were less experienced. Put yourself back in the place where you were just starting out trailering. Unless you were already a professional truck driver, you didn't know anything about the engineering requirements of the truck or the trailer. And it's not like it's easy to figure them out. This very string of messages is a good indication of how difficult it is.

Here's what happened to me. I bought what I thought was a good solid (if, in retrospect, light duty) tow vehicle for my pop up and my boat. I knew enough about towing mathematics to check towing capacity, axle ratings, etc. When we bought an Airstream, it supposedly fit within my capacity. But it was clear that the Tacoma wasn't happy towing my 22 Sport. In trying to figure out why, I discovered all kinds of things ... like torque. Which is why I bought an F150 to tow my 22' Sport.

When I bought the F150, I carefully studied all of the specs of both truck and trailer. I dug into every number. I not only challenged the salesman with my data, but I educated him ... and his sales manager! And we all called Ford's technical department to clarify what the numbers actually meant. In the end, the F150 was perfect for my 22.

But cometh the day when my wife and I decided it was too small. We'd already bought the F150, with all of the extra capacity we could buy; we weren't going to trade it in for a 250. From all of the printed specs, we would easily be able to tow a 23, 25, 26, 27. But then all of you engineering experts here started publishing real world, on the street numbers, which I trust. And all of a sudden my "easily" tow became "barely" tow, at least at the top end of that length range. (Though every one of the salesmen all kept telling me that the truck or the trailer or both had "plenty of capacity" without even looking at the numbers.)


If I'd listened to any of the salesmen, to Airstream's specs, to lots of people here, I would have bought a 27. Then I would have been under-trucked, or maybe the word is "truly trucked." And because I wouldn't be able to turn back around and trade in the new 27 or trade my relativley newly purchased F150 ... what would my choices be but to do my best with an inadequate truck?


So, "how in the world"? Because unless you're rolling in money, you can't exchange vehicles and trailers like they're Tonka toys. You end up with what you end up with. To the extent that you meant by your question: why don't people with only 1000 lbs of tongue weight buy only a trailer that falls within that ... well, on this we agree: they should. But if they rely on a salesman--who's supposed to be an expert on the vehicle they're selling--they're bound to be send down the wrong path by someone who mostly doesn't know and doesn't bother to find out, if they don't outright lie.

That's how it happens.