Confused again

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by whitegs

So I look at the bottom of the fridge and that's where the converter and fuses and circuit breakers are. I'm told by AS that maybe it's under the hall wardrobe and I do see a pipe coming up from there but there is no panel that's easily removed but there is a board screwed in in front of where it might be. Do I have to unscrew 8 small phillips screws to be able to remove that board and get to the water pump?
. . .

Have you read your hard copy of your owners manual, and seen the illustration of the filter at the pump, referred to earlier in Post #2?

Did you read the thread linked in Post #5, which suggests that access to your water pump may be very difficult, as the user DeltaRon described? You may have to take the time to absorb the information you are receiving here. My impression, sorry if I am wrong, is that you are in a bit of a panic about this. Again, sorry if I am wrong, but good clear communication will not be possible if so.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by aftermath

. . .
Once finished with that I run the pump to clear out the water from the filter and the pump itself.
. . .

You have been lucky IMO if you haven't accessed the pump and removed both the intake and outlet hoses. The compressed air does not reach any water trapped before and after the pump, at possible hidden low points. What works in your AS may not work in all others.

The owners manual for the OP's trailer, linked in Post #2, says on PDF p. 80/112:

"Disconnect the water pump inlet connection and turn the pump on until all the water is expelled.This water, about 1/2 cup, can be caught in a towel or rag."

The additional step I suggested in Post #2, of blowing by mouth into the pump's intake water line from the water tank [not crawling under the trailer, as it seems was referred to below], is one acquired from years of dealing with these matters, and is a small point of refinement intended to cover all possible weak links in the chain.

Assuming the following quote is referring to my suggestion, it does not accurately state what was suggested.

Originally Posted by aftermath

. . .
No need, in my opinion, to crawl under the trailer and use your lips to blow out these valves.
. . .

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

There is another thread on winterizing as well.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f458...wn-157188.html

An excellent reference, as the thread involves another FC28, albeit from a different model year.

It appears that the 28' AS have pumps in various locations, depending on model year, floor plan, and so forth.

Very frustrating if you own one, like Richard is finding!

Good luck.

Peter

[whitegs]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

You have been lucky IMO if you haven't accessed the pump and removed both the intake and outlet hoses. The compressed air does not reach any water trapped before and after the pump, at possible hidden low points. What works in your AS may not work in all others.

The owners manual for the OP's trailer, linked in Post #2, says on PDF p. 80/112:

"Disconnect the water pump inlet connection and turn the pump on until all the water is expelled.This water, about 1/2 cup, can be caught in a towel or rag."

The additional step I suggested in Post #2, of blowing by mouth into the pump's intake water line from the water tank [not crawling under the trailer, as it seems was referred to below], is one acquired from years of dealing with these matters, and is a small point of refinement intended to cover all possible weak links in the chain.

Assuming the following quote is referring to my suggestion, it does not accurately state what was suggested.

Freezing temps are probably a month away so I'm not that panicked. I am actually frustrated at my apparent inability to complete this simple task. In summary, my problems have been:
1. Reading the user manual for my trailer and not finding the pump in any of the locations mentioned.
2. Turning on the water pump switch and not hearing anything so it doesn't seem as if that would eliminate the residual water. Not sure why the pump is inoperative now as it was working just a week ago on our last boondocking trip. Of course I emptied the fresh water tank by opening that drain so maybe it won't turn on if there is no water in the tank.
3. Despite opening the fresh water drain, the monitor still reads 13%.
4. Tomorrow is another day when I will close all the drains and faucets and try once again to pressurize the system and open the faucets one at a time. I still don't know about the water pump, even if I find the air pressure actually working.
5. If I wanted to use antifreeze in the system, not being able to locate the pump intake hose to suck up the antifreeze makes that a non-starter.

I suppose after all this I can tow the beast to Jackson Center if I can get an appointment before the middle of winter.

[HowieE]

It is time you step back and start over.

To winterize a trailer you need an adapter to the city water connection and a length of suction hose to go into the antifreeze. You can make or buy the adapter.

After draining the hot water heater, setting the hot water heater bypass valve, and drained the fresh water tank.

Attach the adapter to the city connection and while someone is inside have them open the cold side of the closest faucet to the city connection and you apply PULSES of air to the city connection. Do not pressurize the system. Don't pay any attention to the water line drains Airstream installed. They are more problems than they are worth. Do this until your helper says it is only droplets and air coming out and close the faucet. Do the hot water side of that faucet. Move to the next faucet, shower, toilet, kitchen sink and filtered water faucet if equipped.

You have now purged the system as best you can.

Disconnect the inlet side of the water pump, before and filter that is there, and connect the hose to the line. The floor of the closet should just lift to access the pump. Make sure it is an air tight connection, clamp if necessary. Again have someone open the closest cold water faucet to the pump and turn on the pump till antifreeze come out of that faucet. Turn pump off as not to waste antifreeze. Then do the hot water side and move until all faucets have flowed antifreeze. Reconnect the input side of the pump and go have a drink. This should take less than a gallon of antifreeze and less than 15 minutes.

Come spring fill the fresh water tank, turn on the pump and draw water from each faucet till clear. Turn he hot water heater bypass valve and while the pump is on and a hot water faucet is open fill till a steady stream of water comes out.

We carry a few gallons of water from home for the first trip and use that for cooking and drinking. That first trip should clean things of any residual antifreeze .

[lsbrodsky]

You are getting a lot of help here, unfortunately some of it conflicting, the downside of the forum. However, there is no getting around the fact that if you want to do this yourself, you need to locate your water pump. It has no low pressure or low water cutoff; it will run and make noise empty. Check the fuse.

Larry

[OTRA15]

Richard please read DeltaRon's experience in the thread linked in Post #5 here, before you try to locate your pump, or attempt to get antifreeze into its intake.

I will bow out here, as we are not communicating very well in my personal opinion.

Good luck.

Peter

[whitegs]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Richard please read DeltaRon's experience in the thread linked in Post #5 here, before you try to locate your pump, or attempt to get antifreeze into its intake.

I will bow out here, as we are not communicating very well in my personal opinion.

Good luck.

Peter

I did read DeltaRon's experience as you suggested and realize my problem is that at age 81, even with hearing aids, I couldn't hear the faint hum of the pump. So I asked my ever loving who has such good hearing I'm convinced she hears things that aren't there to listen when I turned on the pump and she heard it and found it was clearly under the wardrobe. So tomorrow I will remove the six (not 4) phillips screws on the panel under the wardrobe shelf and see if the pump is there and accessible.

I think everyone has been communicating very clearly albeit with somewhat different advice. I'm sure everyone's methods would work. I just am so compulsive about everything I want to follow the manual's procedure exactly.

I know everyone is probably entirely sick of me by now, but I will make a final post tomorrow after I've followed the various suggestions.

Again, sorry if I've aggravated you all, but it's comforting to have someone to ventilate to. Thanks for your patience.

[Philip Jones]

Originally Posted by HowieE

It is time you step back and start over.

<snip>

...Do not pressurize the system. Don't pay any attention to the water line drains Airstream installed. They are more problems than they are worth....

<snip>

What does this mean? Low point drains?

[polarlyse]

Sticking out below the belly of your Airstream you should see two small valves. One is the hot water line and one for the cold. These are, theoretically speaking, the lowest point in the plumbing line run and, again theoretically, should allow you to drain the system without using compressed air. I use compressed air and as a final detail I open each of them making sure only air comes out. If you blow the lines and do a thorough job of it I think you can omit this step and ignore them. I just do both.

[Tyvekcat]

Shoot, I was in Point Pleasent WVA at the MothMan festival, back in September. I could have run up to 'The Plains and installed the Camco Pump Winterizing kit, in twenty minutes and you could have winterized when ever you felt like it.

You just install the Camco kit on the intake of your water pump. It has a brass valve you flick to bypass and stick the hose in a gallon of RV anti-freeze. Bypass the hot water heater , turn on the pump open the valve on the galley sink, bathroom sink, commode and shower, run just a little anti-freeze through the lines, you are good to go. maybe a gallon of fluid,
Learned my lesson, had to replace the commode foot valve and water pump. So I made sure I had it in there this year.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-36543-P...terization+kit

yeah yours is a 28 so the pump should be under the fridge. Remove that panel that has the atwood propane leak detector. You may have to remove a forced-air, heater hose, the pumps right there in the middle of the sawdust and rats nest of wires.
Not a bad spot to get to, just need a flash light. I think I am going to add lighting under there. I can get power from the 12 volt lines to the fridge.
I am always in there doing something.
I'll try to take a pic and post it. The AS is over at the storage facility.
My pump froze last year, so I don't mess with the air anymore.
Safe travels

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by whitegs

. . .
So tomorrow I will remove the six (not 4) phillips screws on the panel under the wardrobe shelf and see if the pump is there and accessible.
. . .

Good morning Richard, just wondering if you found the pump and were able to winterize your pipes? Hoping no news is good news.

Cheers,

Peter

[whitegs]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Good morning Richard, just wondering if you found the pump and were able to winterize your pipes? Hoping no news is good news.

Cheers,

Peter

I got four off but the bottom two are behind a wood piece that is nailed and screwed in. I just couldn't get a screwdriver up in there. These are really small Phillips screws so I just couldn't get the driver to bite and turn them.
So I gave up. I have a hole in the banana wrap (just love those narrow campsites bordered with large rocks) so I'll be going to JC in the Spring and while there I'll have them show me how to get to the pump.

[JPAS]

Whitegs, you shouldn't need to take off any screws to access your water pump. There is a false panel at the bottom your refrigerator, it will just pop off. The water pump is behind this access panel. You should be able to get your fingers behind the edge slightly and pop it off.

[Tyvekcat]

Originally Posted by whitegs

I got four off but the bottom two are behind a wood piece that is nailed and screwed in. I just couldn't get a screwdriver up in there. These are really small Phillips screws so I just couldn't get the driver to bite and turn them.
So I gave up. I have a hole in the banana wrap (just love those narrow campsites bordered with large rocks) so I'll be going to JC in the Spring and while there I'll have them show me how to get to the pump.

The only thing behind that access panel in the wardrobe are the water lines that go down through the floor at that point, and the drain pipes to access the tanks. Your pump will be to the right, you can't see it from this panel. Your hot and cold lines will go under the floor at this point to go to the bathroom.
Like 'Jpas' said it is behind the panel under the refrigerator. LP gas detector is there on mine. I added additional length to the power wires on the LP gas detector, so I can pull that panel and set it to the side easily.

I'll see if I can get a pic of when the pump is one my AS.
safe travels !

[OTRA15]

Please re-read this entire thread including the linked earlier threads which disclose that the pump in Richard's model MAY be very difficult to access, and that your advice may be inaccurate. In particular the member DeltaRon here had a bear of a time accessing his pump, as referenced in Post #5 here.

Thank you for this courtesy.

Peter

Originally Posted by JPAS

Whitegs, you shouldn't need to take off any screws to access your water pump. There is a false panel at the bottom your refrigerator, it will just pop off. The water pump is behind this access panel. You should be able to get your fingers behind the edge slightly and pop it off.

Originally Posted by Tyvekcat

The only thing behind that access panel in the wardrobe are the water lines that go down through the floor at that point, and the drain pipes to access the tanks. Your pump will be to the right, you can't see it from this panel. Your hot and cold lines will go under the floor at this point to go to the bathroom.
Like 'Jpas' said it is behind the panel under the refrigerator. LP gas detector is there on mine. I added additional length to the power wires on the LP gas detector, so I can pull that panel and set it to the side easily.

I'll see if I can get a pic of when the pump is one my AS.
safe travels !

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by whitegs

I got four off but the bottom two are behind a wood piece that is nailed and screwed in. I just couldn't get a screwdriver up in there. These are really small Phillips screws so I just couldn't get the driver to bite and turn them.
So I gave up. I have a hole in the banana wrap (just love those narrow campsites bordered with large rocks) so I'll be going to JC in the Spring and while there I'll have them show me how to get to the pump.

Thank you for the follow-up, Richard. Drats!

You probably realize this, but you will be running a small risk that there may still be a small amount of water left in the pump, filter, and/or supply line coming from the tank. You have the option of putting a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze into the fresh water tank and turning the pump on, to suck it up if it can get a prime. Maybe more than two gallons?

I support your avoidance of antifreeze however!

Good luck,

Peter

[Tyvekcat]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Please re-read this entire thread including the linked earlier threads which disclose that the pump in Richard's model MAY be very difficult to access, and that your advice may be inaccurate. In particular the member DeltaRon here had a bear of a time accessing his pump, as referenced in Post #5 here.

Thank you for this courtesy.

Peter

Awesome moderation Peter. I did see previous post #6 and #7 where 'Artic Fox' and 'Ian Poulin' confirmed the pump's location, ' under the fridge' , and your acknowledgement in post 8.

Feel free to continue your crusade against RV anti-freeze.
I was just trying to help 'whitegs' .

whatever,

[OTRA15]

Yes, they thought they knew where Richard's pump is, but in my opinion, they weren't looking at his trailer, and did not fully read Delta Ron's thread, which detailed the difficulties he had finding his pump.

Here is Delta Ron's older thread which was linked in Post #5:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f445...ss-140909.html

Please take the time to read it, and appreciate that Richard's pump may be in a difficult location. 46 posts detailing DeltaRon's laborious process to locate his actual pump! It was under the fridge, but buried way in the back, so access via the front bottom panel was no good. You have to read the thread to appreciate it, so I won't go on.

No moderating going on, just attempting to be factually very accurate. My acknowledgement in Post #8 was incorrect, as it turned out later, when we learned how complicated the pump location might actually be.

Thanks,

Peter

[whitegs]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Yes, they thought they knew where Richard's pump is, but in my opinion, they weren't looking at his trailer, and did not fully read Delta Ron's thread, which detailed the difficulties he had finding his pump.

Here is Delta Ron's older thread which was linked in Post #5:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f445...ss-140909.html

Please take the time to read it, and appreciate that Richard's pump may be in a difficult location. 46 posts detailing DeltaRon's laborious process to locate his actual pump! It was under the fridge, but buried way in the back, so access via the front bottom panel was no good. You have to read the thread to appreciate it, so I won't go on.


No moderating going on, just attempting to be factually very accurate. My acknowledgement in Post #8 was incorrect, as it turned out later, when we learned how complicated the pump location might actually be.

Thanks,

Peter

Just ike the referenced thread, the converter and fuses are under the frig. I can hear the water pump under the hall closet but I just can't get to it.