25 or 28, That is the question

[NC Camper]

Originally Posted by switz

In an airline to Phoenix as I type this having left the UK this morning. Our Monday departure got changed to Wednesday due to the snow.

The initial off the cuff plan for the 23D was to serve as a sacrificial anode going to Alaska this summer. However, Murphy stepped up to the plate and all the plans changed from outside issues and the trip was also cancelled. It's mission is now for the smaller state and national parks in the SouthWest where our 31' is known to be too long from experience.

Note that when a park says they can handle a 25' trailer, they are talking about the measurement of the box of the SOBs. Airstream publishes overall length, which would be about three feet shorter if just measuring the structure. Thus a 28' Airstream becomes a 25' for park length purposes.

Oh my, sounds like a whopping case of jet lag! Been there, don't miss it...much.

Great point on the length measurement. I think I knew that, but had forgotten it.

Take care!

[IAMGLG]

25 too small. 28.

[Echelon73]

I have found this thread interesting. Our local dealer (the one close to where the OP lives) does not like to stock the 28 because they have such a difficult time selling them. They had a 28 International Serenity there last year which we seriously looked at, but it was the only 28 they had at the time. They had several 25's and a few 27's. Based on this thread I wonder if buyers are starting to move more towards the longer 28 instead of the 25 though. I can't add much to this conversation because we decided to buy a used 30 (for the larger bathroom, wardrobe, and the recliners), but I think it is interesting to see how many people have moved from a 25 to a 28.

[ModernVista]

We had a 20 for 2.5 years and loved it, however after doing 2 weeks last Summer and thinking about month long trips this year, we decided we wanted a walk around bed and more room for our greyhound and occasional trips with the teenage son.

So on a whim we went to airstream and looked at the 25, 26U and 27FB International and decided on either the 26 or 27. One can only hit their head getting out of bed so many times! (25)

After doing a tone of research at home we were 90% sure we wanted the 27 but as I was discussing towing with Andy, he suggested I check out the 28.

We went back to our dealer and spent over 4 hours going through drawers and cupboards, lying in the beds and just plain sitting in the trailer and eventually decided the 28 was the one!

Main reasons: it felt it had much more light overall from all the windows especially the dinette in the middle.

Counter space is extended as dinette is across from kitchen and even when traveling with son, dinette can remain setup.

We often have family or friends in camping ground and 28 has best view so we can keep an eye out and while my wife is cooking she can easily feel like part of the group.

Better bedroom storage!

Gorgeous view to back of trailer through master window, even from front of trailer (as compared to 20)

The huge exterior storage in rear helps reduce tongue weight. I have been told that a loaded 27 has more tongue weight than loaded 28, and in our 20 we use the bed for dog gate and chairs etc, so thrilled about keeping that outside. In order to put them in 27 I would have to remove propane bottles each time.

The huge downside is the kitchen pantry storage, but my wife has a plan!

Some of these upgrades are really based on our experience in the 20 and similar to the downgrade of the kitchen.. The FC20 has one of the best kitchen layouts, but we are thrilled to pick up our 28 tomorrow!

Cheers

Chris

[dkottum]

The 25, 26, 27, and 28 are all within 300# maximum weight and 2' overall length. Tow vehicle being the same, you would barely notice the difference towing or parking.

The most significant difference is not size, but interior arrangement. There the differences are dramatic and where the buyer's attention should be directed, not only as offered but also how you might customize it to your own preferences.

They are also offered in a variety of trim levels. As well as decor choices. And optional equipment that can have a great affect on the comfort and use of your Airstream.

For most of us there are price differences that we must consider. A Flying Cloud 25 is a beautiful and durable Airstream, smallest of the large models; we loaded it with all factory options and customized the living space to an entirely different arrangement for the cost of a basic upscale model. It's a comfortable and spacious traveler for the two of us, we spend many months traveling in it every year. If money matters, spend it wisely on your own specific travel and camping needs.

[tsunami]

Been staying here in Florida since we picked up our new FC 28 footer at Foley RV, January 2nd 2016. It's been very comfortable and we love the interior sightline (feels very open). Ours is the rear queen with the closets on each side of the bed. As we prepare to head home in a couple day, looking forward to seeing how well it tows and the fuel economy difference from our old 23 footer. We would really like to hear/see what plan your wife has for the kitchen storage. Congrats and enjoy your new AS!

[dkottum]

Speaking of pantry space, when we took out our unused long side seating on our 25, we replaced part of it with a storage cabinet that she immediately seized for a second pantry. A similar custom cabinet could be added to any 25 or 27 with the long bench seat.

[sb55]

I have a 25' Safari SS. So we have the gaucho and dinette. We really like the choice of 3 distinct areas, and the dinette table makes up for lack of counter space. The only downside is the corner bed. It is fine when you're in it, but a pain to make and get out of. When I upgrade, it will be the 28' rather than the 27' any time. I always lurk the classifieds and when I see a 28 without the dinette, I click right past it.

[NC Camper]

Originally Posted by Echelon73

I have found this thread interesting. Our local dealer (the one close to where the OP lives) does not like to stock the 28 because they have such a difficult time selling them. They had a 28 International Serenity there last year which we seriously looked at, but it was the only 28 they had at the time. They had several 25's and a few 27's. Based on this thread I wonder if buyers are starting to move more towards the longer 28 instead of the 25 though. I can't add much to this conversation because we decided to buy a used 30 (for the larger bathroom, wardrobe, and the recliners), but I think it is interesting to see how many people have moved from a 25 to a 28.

Echelon, we looked at the same 28', but at the time thought it was too big (not any more ). Also, while I like the Serenity, my DH says the International decor doesn't feel like he is camping and is very happy with the FC.

While I'm very big on buying local, we have been out to the dealership a couple of times and also seen them at RV shows and they just have very limited inventory (as of Jan 8th they had three). When we went up to Colonial I picked up a tidbit of information that was new to me. I don't know if this is usual for Airstream this time of year, but we were told all dealerships are on "allocation" and will only be receiving units based on the number they sold last year. They had a list of all the units they were expecting into May and some of them were already sold. Since we were thinking about ordering we were advised to just let them know what options we want and they can put in a change order to a unit that is already on their list. Nothing like getting a made to order unit from their "regular" inventory. I am going to give our local folks one more try to see if they can do something for us along the same lines. Is this "business as usual" for Airstream?

[NC Camper]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Speaking of pantry space, when we took out our unused long side seating on our 25, we replaced part of it with a storage cabinet that she immediately seized for a second pantry. A similar custom cabinet could be added to any 25 or 27 with the long bench seat.

Doug, your mods are what really sold me on the flexibility of the 25'. Very creative...and functional!

[switz]

Upon careful reading of the 2016 Airstream catalog, the 28' model has the highest tongue weight off all the Airstream models at 976 pounds. Adding a Hensley or ProPride weight distribution hitch adds over a 100 pounds of steel on the front of the trailer. The new 26U model comes in at 906 pounds while the 30' Bunk has 885 pounds (880 pounds for the 30' standard).

Thus the future owner has to find a tow vehicle where the hitch receiver is rated at least 1,100 pounds before adding anything inside the trailer.

Note that the static tongue weight does not consider the stress imposed on the receiver situation when the weight distribution hitch is connected and bending forces are imposed to transfer weight forward to the front axle.

[BAB]

Some local advice. I have bought my last two Airstreams at ODM. Back in 2011 I was "sold" on a new 2012 25 Intl CCD. I heeded the advice on AirForums and changed my mind and ordered a 28. Great and smart move -- the extra size made the trailer much more comfortable. BUT, the L seat sofa, while it looks nice was just not comfortable. I ended up removing it and installing two recliners. Great trailer, and the major reason I went for a new 30 Classic was ducted air and the gorgeous cherry interior. While I am on NOBODY'S payroll, I have been very satisfied with ODM -- both in the sale and pricing of my two trailers, but more importantly for their parts and service departments. I have nothing against Colonial, but they do nothing for our local NC economy. I would bet that Joel has a new trailer allocation that can be applied to whatever you're looking for. And, there is so much experience here on AF -- I really appreciate all the great advice over the years that's helped me enjoy and appreciate the Airstream life.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by NC Camper

Doug, your mods are what really sold me on the flexibility of the 25'. Very creative...and functional!

This is our second Airstream. This time we shopped specifically for a model that would meet our preference for a mid-size tow vehicle, while still providing enough space and comfort in a modest size Airstream for extensive travel.

The 2012 Airstream 25 Rear Bed model was the only mid-size Airstream where we could essentially take out all the dinette bench seating (that we did not need), and convert it easily to a comfortable and practical trailer-for-two. We took out the built-ins and stored them, and took the Airstream to Jackson Center Service Center where they charged us $4,000 to customize it, a two day job nicely done with a factory appearance.

If customization is in your plans, look carefully to ensure there is no appliances such as furnace, water heater, electrical converter/charger underneath the built-ins you would need to remove.

For example, our 2012 Rear Bed had the converter/charger right next to the fridge, we could put a folding table under the window and build a cabinet over the converter. A couple of years later Airstream moved the converter forward where our street side recliner now sits. That be a little more difficult and more expensive conversion, the converter would have to be moved to duplicate our project.

As you shop, think about how you might best use your Airstream in it's factory form, and also look ahead to any modifications you may wish to make. There are appliances, wiring, plumbing hidden under everything built in, possibly making difficult and expensive alterations.

[dkottum]

If the hitch weight of a model you choose is excessive, that is not necessarily a deal killer. You need at least 10% trailer weight at the hitch coupler. Our 25 FC factory hitch weight is listed 835 lbs, the trailer maximum weight is 7300#, so we need 730# hitch weight.

After interior alterations, all of our storage is on or aft of the trailer's axles. Our bicycles are on the Airstream bike rack at the rear bumper. The batteries can be moved aft or replaced by lightweight, more powerful lithium models. The spare tire can be carried in the tow vehicle, or not carried all. Tandem axle Airstreams are designed to travel limited distance and speed with one wheel removed, in case of a flat. A change to high-quality Michelin tires will make that possibility very unlikely.

Our Airstream Owners manual limits our tongue weight to 1,000 lbs maximum, perhaps for sway stability, perhaps structural limitations. It must be at least 730#. These are the parameters to work with. Our ProPride hitch weighs about 100# more than a conventional hitch. But when hitched to the truck, most of the ProPride weight is carried by the truck receiver. I see the ProPride's weight only as an issue with tow vehicle carrying capacity. Perhaps because I want it to work, and perhaps because our considerable towing has shown us it does work.

[NC Camper]

Originally Posted by BAB

Some local advice. I have bought my last two Airstreams at ODM. Back in 2011 I was "sold" on a new 2012 25 Intl CCD. I heeded the advice on AirForums and changed my mind and ordered a 28. Great and smart move -- the extra size made the trailer much more comfortable. BUT, the L seat sofa, while it looks nice was just not comfortable. I ended up removing it and installing two recliners. Great trailer, and the major reason I went for a new 30 Classic was ducted air and the gorgeous cherry interior. While I am on NOBODY'S payroll, I have been very satisfied with ODM -- both in the sale and pricing of my two trailers, but more importantly for their parts and service departments. I have nothing against Colonial, but they do nothing for our local NC economy. I would bet that Joel has a new trailer allocation that can be applied to whatever you're looking for. And, there is so much experience here on AF -- I really appreciate all the great advice over the years that's helped me enjoy and appreciate the Airstream life.

Thanks BAB. I was hoping someone would speak up about our local dealer. I have also heard good things about them from another forum member who I recently found out is a neighbor. As nice as the folks were at Colonial, I would much prefer to purchase local because they are they folks I would be going to for service. Right or wrong, I think any vehicle dealership gives some preference/priority to their previous customers. Although this gets some folks knickers in a knot, I can understand how a dealer's priority would be to keep their original customers happy. Safe travels!

[NC Camper]

Originally Posted by switz

Upon careful reading of the 2016 Airstream catalog, the 28' model has the highest tongue weight off all the Airstream models at 976 pounds. Adding a Hensley or ProPride weight distribution hitch adds over a 100 pounds of steel on the front of the trailer. The new 26U model comes in at 906 pounds while the 30' Bunk has 885 pounds (880 pounds for the 30' standard).

Thus the future owner has to find a tow vehicle where the hitch receiver is rated at least 1,100 pounds before adding anything inside the trailer.

Note that the static tongue weight does not consider the stress imposed on the receiver situation when the weight distribution hitch is connected and bending forces are imposed to transfer weight forward to the front axle.

Originally Posted by dkottum

If the hitch weight of a model you choose is excessive, that is not necessarily a deal killer. You need at least 10% trailer weight at the hitch coupler. Our 25 FC factory hitch weight is listed 835 lbs, the trailer maximum weight is 7300#, so we need 730# hitch weight.

After interior alterations, all of our storage is on or aft of the trailer's axles. Our bicycles are on the Airstream bike rack at the rear bumper. The batteries can be moved aft or replaced by lightweight, more powerful lithium models. The spare tire can be carried in the tow vehicle, or not carried all. Tandem axle Airstreams are designed to travel limited distance and speed with one wheel removed, in case of a flat. A change to high-quality Michelin tires will make that possibility very unlikely.

Our Airstream Owners manual limits our tongue weight to 1,000 lbs maximum, perhaps for sway stability, perhaps structural limitations. It must be at least 730#. These are the parameters to work with. Our ProPride hitch weighs about 100# more than a conventional hitch. But when hitched to the truck, most of the ProPride weight is carried by the truck receiver. I see the ProPride's weight only as an issue with tow vehicle carrying capacity. Perhaps because I want it to work, and perhaps because our considerable towing has shown us it does work.

switz and Doug, you make good points about the tongue weight of the 28'. This was something we're a bit concerned about, but according to Ford our max trailer towing weight is 11,600# and they say, "Trailer tongue load weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight." With the 28' having a GVWR of 7600#, a worst case scenario of 15% tongue weight (1140#) doesn't even put us at 10% of the max trailer tongue weight for our TV.

Our bigger concern is payload and that is why we plan to go with a RB model in whichever length we get. If I understand things correctly we can maintain stability while minimizing impact on TV payload if we balance our load to keep the tongue weight closer to 10% of the actual trailer weight. At this point, I have crunched so many numbers and read so many posts that I may not have this straight. Please speak up if I'm not figuring this correctly.

Thanks!

[dkottum]

The advantages to traveling lightly should be evident. Many have no interest in it and simply write it off and buy a heavy duty pickup. Some of us came from travel backgrounds where it was the only way, our 35 years touring the country with VW Camper vans gave us no other choice. So we learned some things; the most important being how little gear you actually need, and more than that is simply a burden.

Here's a simple strategy.

The 25 through 28 Airstreams are so close in weight, choose the one you like the most. A vehicle that can tow a 25 can also tow a 28 as easily. Then decide on the needed gear. And then the tow vehicle with the load capacities you need. Be smart and realistic.

Don't discount the importance of the weight distribution/sway control or sway elimination hitch and its proper setup. It's fully one third of a successful towing combination.

A note on weight distribution and truck load capacity. Although the trailer tongue weight is 1,000 lbs, after hitching and the weight distribution hitch lift is applied, 200 lbs (as a rule of thumb) will be distributed to the trailer axles. So figure 800 lbs of the 1,000 lbs tongue weight will be added to the truck load.

[m.hony]

Another thought:
If a 1/2 ton pickup an tow a 28', the same pickup can pull a 30'.

[silverlabs]

Originally Posted by NC Camper

Chuck, thanks for sharing your experience. Your comments really reinforce our thinking. I had not even considered a Hensley or PP hitch because I had read so many comments on the forums about how heavy they are. The last thing I wanted to do was add any more tongue weight. Is this not a problem for you?

I worried about the same thing that you are for quite awhile. After talking with many others I pulled the trigger on the 28 even with the higher tongue weight. I had a Equalizer hitch initially on the trailer and did not like it. Mainly from an adjustment ease standpoint. After speaking with others with Hensley/PP hitches and Sean at ProPride I purchased the ProPride. With proper adjustment you are moving weight to the truck axle and it has been no issue at all. All weight figures from scales come up good and as mentioned, pulls like a champ. The beauty again of a Hensley/PP is that if your weight in truck bed changes, adjustment is with the W/D jacks, not having to change hitch bolt positions/washers/tilt.

As others have said, choose what fits your needs and lifestyle. The weight issue works out fine with proper packing. I have been one of those with the mindset that you figure out what you really must have on trips, and carry that. Not what you think you need as storage is at premium on these things. We have the 28FC Rear Twin and love the fact of the three accessible storage bins. That keeps a bunch of stuff out of my truck bed. With that minimalist mindset, we have had know issues.

Again, best of luck with your decision. I am happy to answer any other questions you may have about a 28.

Chuck

[BAB]

Agree completely with Chuck. I pulled my 28 Intl CCD with a ProPride, and have the same hitch on the 30 Classic. While $ is always an issue, and a PPP is expensive, I've towed with the hitch on two Airstreams -- probably around 75,000 miles in every kind of terrain you can imagine and even the blast of a huge semi or a sidewind doesn't induce any kind of sway. While weights are always a consideration, I wouldn't get too locked up over it. BTW, the guys at Out-of-Doors Mart know how to install a ProPride. They've done both of mine. If you do go out there and talk with the sales guys, you can tell Jason that you've been following Barry's posts on AirForums. He'll probably tell you some funny stories!