20-footers

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by jpons

. . .
I plan on working on the toilet removal early next week. First order of business is getting that black water tank as clean as possible before I go messing around with it.
. .
-J

Wondering how the tank removal is going?

Thanks,

Peter

[subfan1]

You're welcome Peter, have a great trip. How long will you be on the road? Have fun

[CruizinDux]

Originally Posted by subfan1

Yes I replaced ours with a stainless steel. I've replaced almost all exterior plastics with SS

Subfan1, thanks. I looked at he AS website...pretty spendy, but nice SS quality. I couldn't tell about he locking tabs, but would have to presume SS too.

This is the post I was thinking #512from TC of http://www.airforums.com/forums/f516...127845-37.html (

Good to know that at one vendor or another that we can upgrade from the nice AS plastic.

Bob

...as for the long weekend at the beach....fond memories of Crystal Cove. Next time it will be San Clemente SB...maybe San Elijio ?) for some variety.


W just got back from Beachside SP a couple of weeks ago from Beachside SP for 4 days. North or south, you gotta love the calming sound of the waves lapping the shore.

[CruizinDux]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Thanks Jose for the clarifications. We hope to do all the same upgrades, but right now we want to get on the road again! All our OEM equipment including batteries is working fine, thus under the KISS theory -- if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Thanks again for leading the way on the water leak possibilities in the wheel wells. I doubt if I ever would have discovered that exposed plywood subfloor which was a distinctly weak link in the chain. The spray-on bed liner was not a pretty fix but it is probably watertight.

Turning on the fridge and water heater today.

OTRA2016!

Thanks again,

Peter

subfan1, Ditto. Discovery much appreciated.

After a closer inspection turns out I had two gaps, one about .375" and the other .5"+. I dropped it off at the dealer for the tongue jack issue ...so I showed them the gaps. This small a scrap of SM overlay and/or caulk should be fine.


Interesting on the jack, they also could not raise/lower with the hand crank. They were to call JC on Monday. No word yet.

Bob

[CruizinDux]

[QUOTE=OTRA15;1792704]I seem to have the same cleats as you Bob. No surprise I guess. After removing the wood bungs over the screw heads, I will use longer screws or through-bolts. The wood cleat behind the dinette base top edge, in the storage area, is kind of overkill IMO (hard to remember but I think the interior 1X is to support the plywood supporting the cushion. May have to sister up another 1X since it's only backing and not support. WE don't use the dinette bed...yet....future for TV, but I would never sit on the edge. Maybe keep 1 or two of those 4X4's handy for jack etc....coincidentally cut to the FF/MICA bottom length,) and may be in the way of getting nuts/washers on the new bolts. Both cleats could be wider and as you noted Bob the cleats under the table could be longer (and not stick out so far IMO). [ Edit -- Plus add 1-2 through-bolts per Steve's excellent suggestion. ]

To be noted also -- the dropped table is probably not supposed to be sat on without the "mattress" in place, which distributes the load. An adult seated on the 'mica table top right over the cleats could easily shear off or tear out short screws. Sorry to devolve into another QC comment but this little corner of the AS looks pretty hoakey IMO. Like an afterthought.

The attached photo is the first without using the laptop, sorry I can't get it to rotate 90. Try standing on your head like you suggested for the p &p drawer tab locking : )))

Attachment 262688





Interesting you should mention #516. Jalama is the only stop where we filled/used FW as opposed to CW. We carried a nominal amount for weight distribution filled at he dealer. When we hooked up at Moro Bay (next stop), the inline filter was plugged and all taps at a dribble. Checked filter pressure on a gauge at home hooked up to a hose. Pressure OK...flow double.

Jalama is a great location but I would not be surprised if their water, while clean and safe, may contain some sediments that managed to get past the filter...assuming that was working correctly. I think I'm going to check the kit filter too. Bought a filter 2 pack and all was fine at BS. I think FW has only been filled by the dealer, at Jalama and our home.

When summerizing and flushing I noticed the FW petcock, while of at 90 closed as normal, and on 0 (wide open) ...but at 180 off with a slow drip. this should be open. The dealer is looking in to this as well. Can't believe the any significant sediment got past the filter. They're going to attach air to the PC and flush and we'll go from there.

For the record, Jalama was great and we'll be back. Just with a full tank of FW and some bottled water.
bob

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the posts Bob. On the campground water, we have a regular domestic canister filter rigged up to go in-line at the CG hose bib, to catch most local sediment, like this one:

https://jet.com/product/detail/5dc39...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

which takes the standard spun-polyester (?) filters you can get everywhere. It also has an integral On/Off to facilitate filter replacement, not that this is really needed for our CG intermittent use. This filter gets used both for CG water tank fills, as well as city water hook-ups direct to the trailer. [Edit -- Bob do you have a filter like this inside your trailer, guessing from your last post, or is it also in-line in the hose?]

As a general strategy, since we don't drink or cook with the tank's water, I have always tried to use the tank water actively on each and every trip, to keep it fresh and available as back-up, even if we are hooked up to city water. That plumbing leak we had back in SD in the 90's, while hooked up to pressurized city water, taught me a lesson about the perils of leaving the hose bib on overnight, or while away from the trailer. A little pump noise during the night is OK for toilet use IMO. Plus you always have a good supply of water in the tank, ready to go as insurance.

I never thought about sediment clogging the drain for the fresh water tank, but that makes perfect sense. Hope you don't have to drop the tank, or is the drain removable as a replaceable unit? Thinking the trailer's bottom pan under the tank might also have to come off? Won't speculate further -- there are threads on this here -- good luck!

Peter

PS -- Weird about the tongue jack manual ops being NG for the dealer too. Also, headstand photo viewing noted, but actually lying down might have done the trick?

PS2 -- Jose, no trip imminent, but the road is calling . . . recent health issues have anchored us home . . . hopefully resolving.

[OTRA15]

teagues, I just happened to notice your post on another thread, and am wondering if you have discovered any other reason for your A/C leak? Could the drain line be crimped somewhere in a wall maybe, as was suggested in yet another thread? [See Posts #862-864 here] [Edit -- see second quote below also -- to save you finding the earlier posts here]

Thanks,

Peter

Originally Posted by teagues

Hopefully this is not a waste of your time, but last month we experienced a similar sounding problem in our 20'. When the AC ran continuously for long periods (due to high temps and/or humidity), water would begin to drip in through the filter area. I investigated and found that water had collected in the U channel, as you described, and also in the inside drain pan under the evaporator.

Checking the outside drain outlet, I could see some dripping there, but less than I would have seen in the past. So I concluded that the drain pan was not draining well enough.

Some condensation on the U channel seems plausible, but in my case I think that the drain pan was overflowing into the u channel and then into the coach from there.

Since we were on the road, I was limited in what I could do to fix any drain blockages. Over a couple of days tried a couple of things and saw some improvement, but still did not 100% fix the problem. But along the way I noticed 2 interesting things:

1. While the AC and its fan were running, the outside drain would drip just a little. Right after the AC fan cut off, a gush of water would drain out. My theory is that the fan creates just enough of a vacuum in the area of the drain that it inhibits draining (along with any remaining crud or pinched section in the drain line).

2. When the trailer is just slightly nose-up, level-wise, the AC was much less likely to drip in the cabin. From the little that I could see of it, it looked like the forward edge of the drain pan is lower than the aft edge.

By making sure that we parked slightly nose-up, and setting the thermostat so that the AC would occasionally shut down, we avoided any additional problems for the rest of the trip. And that would have been over two weeks with some very hot and humid days in there.

Originally Posted by CanonFan

My wife and I are sooo disappointed. We've been looking at travel trailers for quite some time now. Kept coming back to Airstream as the brand we need, primarily due to the lowest VOCs of any of them on the market. Then, we kept trying to decide which size. Changed our minds several times. Finally decided the Flying Cloud 20 was just the right size for the two of us. So, we went in to our dealer this morning for the walk-through. We had a great gentleman providing the orientation and provided some very helpful tips. Things were looking and feeling great. About 1 1/2 hours into the orientation we experienced a flood of water pouring out of one of the A/C air in-take registers. There must have been about 1/2 gallon of water pour out before the technician turned off the A/C. Water also oozed out of one of the panel seams - so we are certain water got into the sidewall and soaked the insulation. As a result, we decided to NOT take delivery and are now trying to decide what we should do. Right now we are terribly disappointed and disillusioned.

[teagues]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

teagues, I just happened to notice your post on another thread, and am wondering if you have discovered any other reason for your A/C leak? Could the drain line be crimped somewhere in a wall maybe, as was suggested in yet another thread? [See Posts #862-864 here] [Edit -- see second quote below also -- to save you finding the earlier posts here]

Thanks,

Peter

I never found any other reason for the backup, really. Setting the thermostat so that the A/C would occasionally cycle off, plus parking slightly nose-up, seems to have done the trick. We have not had a problem since, either later on that trip 2 years ago, or on more recent trips. Our log shows 26 nights in the trailer after dealing with the leak, and all but 7 of those would have required significant use of the air conditioner.

I did try a couple of things when we were on the road that trip:

1. Rigged up a vacuum to the drain tube out at the street side wheel.
2. Pushed a narrower gauge vinyl tube up the drain line as far up as I could. I recall that I was able to get it pretty far up, but cannot remember if I made it to the condensation pan.

Neither fixed the problem, but I would not rule out that one or both helped.

Since that trip, I've occasionally added a condensate drain pan tablet, on the theory that keeping the line as clean as possible wouldn't hurt.

EDIT: Look at that, 100 posts! Only took me 9 years!

[OTRA15]

Thanks, guess I will remove the bottom cover of the AC to see if our drain hose is clamped right. Don't have 30 amps available right now.

[teagues]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Thanks, guess I will remove the bottom cover of the AC to see if our drain hose is clamped right. Don't have 30 amps available right now.

Good luck! Mine looked like it was more caulked than clamped.

For what it's worth: so far, no one has objected to my assertion that you can run the A/C on 20 amps.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post1793504

If I was being a bit indirect there, I personally would flip off the other breakers so that only the A/C is powered, flip the use/store switch to use so that the thermostat runs off the house battery, and monitor voltage inside the trailer to make sure that the power supplied to the trailer is good.

[OTRA15]

Yes I saw your post and agree with you. A clean 20 amp dedicated circuit using the proper extension cord should be fine for our small A/C units. You will know as soon as you start it up. Both your trailer and house/shop 20 amp circuit breakers must not trip, and the line voltage should stay good. The house here has some 20 amp circuits, but I have to run a 50' #12 extension to the trailer, which is marginal IMO. A shorter #10 might do it? Gonna wait until I find a 30 amp circuit or bring the Honda 3000 from the shop.

[OTRA15]

Update teagues -- the #12 extension cord did the job, although the voltage on my cheap voltage meter dropped to 115 +/- when both the compressor and blower fan were running. Ran the A/C for about 5 minutes and turned it off, as a #10 ext. cord is probably needed to keep the voltage constant. Air temp around 70. Will wait for better electrical service before running A/C long enough to let condensate build up.

PS shop gen is Honda 3500 which is due for an exercise anyway, so up she comes next week for an A/C test run.

[teagues]

I wouldn't panic about the voltage dropping to 115 if it held steady there, but then I wouldn't argue against waiting until you are more comfortable with the power supply either. For me, that would absolutely require me to make a trip to Harbor Freight, just to be safe you know.

Good luck getting to the bottom of this. I'm guessing you'd rather figure it out up there when it's 70, than down here when it's 90 and dripping on the dinette seat cushion.

[teagues]

OK -- not to talk you out of a trip to the hardware store -- but I just ran out to the trailer to look up into the AC. Pull one of the air filters, and I'm betting that you could rig up a squeeze bottle to just pump water up into the condensate pan, eliminating the need to use the compressor at all. I was initially thinking about one of those bottles with the right-angle straw like the boxers, but you could probably come up with something better.

[jpons]

I used to have a little honda 1000 generator and always had trouble charging with the Progressive converter. It would constantly overload when first plugging it in as the charger was trying to do a bulk charge. Very frustrating.

I sold it and got a yamaha 2000 and things are MUCH better.

-J

Originally Posted by OTRA15

subfan1, I ordered a Yamaha 1000 generator with the propane conversion, and would appreciate a clarification of how you used your Schumacher charger.

Did you feel that the 1000 was too small to connect directly to the trailer to power the battery charger? The amperages are close, but it seemed to me this would work, without using the intermediate Schumacher charger.

Did you hook up all three at the same time? [gen -- Schmacher charger -- trailer batteries]

Thanks,

Peter

PS -- Sorry if I missed an earlier reply on this!

[jpons]

Events conspired against me and I was not able to work on this. However My plan is to work on it this coming week.

Will update here on what I end up doing.

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Wondering how the tank removal is going?

Thanks,

Peter

[OTRA15]

Thanks jpons on the 1000 vs. Progressive converter, which we touched base on a week or two ago. For now -- with the OEM charger -- the 1000 should be OK IMO. We are doing our best to Keep It Simple Stu and start traveling.

If and when we do an upgrade to include solar, converter/charger, 16' wheels/ires, etc., then a new genny may be needed. The 1000 is so attractively light and portable, however, that it seems like a good tool to have around in general.

Yeah, that same old conspiracy got me recently too . . .

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by teagues

OK -- not to talk you out of a trip to the hardware store -- but I just ran out to the trailer to look up into the AC. Pull one of the air filters, and I'm betting that you could rig up a squeeze bottle to just pump water up into the condensate pan, eliminating the need to use the compressor at all. I was initially thinking about one of those bottles with the right-angle straw like the boxers, but you could probably come up with something better.

Thanks.

I'll do you one better -- A/C brain surgery!

Attached is a photo of the drain tubing above the lower case which I removed. There is no clamp on the single drain tube, like there is on the two tubes feeding it. The user "CanonFan" on that other thread [see quote below] said that the AS mechanics reported a missing clamp also. In theory the drain tube should not really need a clamp if it is all gravity-drained, but suppose there is a back-up or kink down the line? Plus when the interior temp up at the A/C is something like 100 F, that vinyl tubing is going to be pretty weak and limp IMO.

My PA dealer went out of business but their service dept. mechanics -- great guys with lots of AS experience -- are now working for a trailer company in the same location. I will regroup on this and contact them. CanonFan says below that he saw the missing clamp, when he decided not to buy the FC20 recently. Indeed his drain hose was not even connected with a pressure/friction fit!

May I ditch and moan a bit about the soft steel Phillips screws holding the lower case on? The factory assembly person almost stripped the head of one of them, such that I could not remove it. Finally got the "sharpest" Phillips screwdriver I have and manged to remove it. Argghhh! Gonna get harder screws in the morning. Why why why JC?

Think I will pass on squeezing small amounts of water in the drip pans. Want to run the thing hard under real life conditions and see what happens.





Here is CanonFan's post about the missing clamp:

Originally Posted by CanonFan

Walk away from it we did. The tech showed us what happened. It seems there are two condensation drip pans (one on either side of the A/C). There is a drain tube leading from each drain pan that connects to a single drain tube via a "T" or "Y" connector. Well, this connector is situated directly above one of the Return air vents. What happened was that the drain hoses from each drain pan were fastened to the connector via a clamps. Unfortunately, the tube that then carries the water to the wheel well was NOT clamped (or not even connected?). I was amazed by how much water poured out of the vent. The tech explained that the water from the drain pan doesn't just constantly drip down the hose; he said the pan fills partially ans then forced water down the tube. Not sure I understand that or how it works, but that's what he said.
. . .

[subfan1]

Originally Posted by teagues

I wouldn't panic about the voltage dropping to 115 if it held steady there, but then I wouldn't argue against waiting until you are more comfortable with the power supply either. For me, that would absolutely require me to make a trip to Harbor Freight, just to be safe you know.



Good luck getting to the bottom of this. I'm guessing you'd rather figure it out up there when it's 70, than down here when it's 90 and dripping on the dinette seat cushion.

Hi, in terms of the 115 volts shore power; while it might be fine running the AC I would be more concerned what the voltage sag would be as soon as the compressor kicks in. In other words as it cycles off and on. That is when you'll need the extra current to assure the compressor does not get damaged. Just my opinion though.

[OTRA15]

The 115 volts was with both the compressor and fan running. I watched the meter drop as they kicked in.