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TCwheels · 01-25-2016, 05:58 AM

Bob - Glad that you got it worked out. Sounds like your diagnosis was spot on. It's a wonder what "reset" will do.

Are you taking pics on your trip that you could post here? Your itinerary is inspiring!

TCwheels · 01-25-2016, 06:02 AM

Peter -

Can you repost or link to your pics of water heater bypass valve settings? I kick myself for not labeling the valves - which would be a small valve-added step they could do at the factory IMO - for both positions. I'm fairly confident that I got it right, but would prefer not to mess around with the valves too much when I get south and dewinterize. Thanks!

Darrell

OTRA15 · 01-25-2016, 06:08 AM

Thanks for the good news all around Bob.

"Operator Error" -- hmm pretty familiar with that diagnosis here on the east coast as well. As we always reminded ourselves in construction, the measure of a good carpenter is not necessarily perfect work the first time, but perfect work after fixing one's boo-boos. Glad you have heat!

Sounds like the music and OB decal cosmicity (word?) helped usher in a good mood for the rest of the trip. Will check out the music later.

"Expect The Cosmic" !!!

Peter

PS -- Have you considered starting a new topic for your trip at the On The Road forum?

On The Road... - Airstream Forums

PS2 -- edit -- Ditto to TCwheels' suggestion about posting photos, Bob. In the interest of not cluttering up this thread (said the pot to the black kettle?), a new topic in the OTR forum would work great, and give you your first project for what will hopefully be the first of many trips!

OTRA15 · 01-25-2016, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCwheels

Peter -

Can you repost or link to your pics of water heater bypass valve settings? I kick myself for not labeling the valves - which would be a small valve-added step they could do at the factory IMO - for both positions. I'm fairly confident that I got it right, but would prefer not to mess around with the valves too much when I get south and dewinterize. Thanks!

Darrell

Yes, factory labels would be a good "valve-added" step to be done at assembly!

I have not used my water heater bypass valve at all, as I did not want to introduce antifreeze into my plumbing system. Do you mean the low point hot and cold drain valves which are behind the water heater, and under the front dinette seat? Bob actually was the first to post about the awkward location of those valves, and I will look for the relevant posts and photos.

Stand by . . . Edit -- Bob's Post 423 started off the conversation about winterizing I think with photos. My Post 428 etc. followed with photos.

PS -- The good news about turning the plumbing back on, compared to winterizing, is that if you get a valve turned the wrong way, you will know immediately from a leak somewhere, or a lack of water coming out of a faucet, shower head, etc.. Amusing perhaps, but no damage to the trailer from a freeze-up.

OTRA15 · 01-25-2016, 11:38 AM

PS Darrell, Correction -- I just noticed the first photos start at Post 408.

OTRA15 · 01-29-2016, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CruizinDux

[snip]
Tomorrow we're heading for Crystal Cove (Laguna Beach) ...may not need the heat but good to know we'll be ready.
[snip]
Be well everyone and enjoy the snow on the east coast.

Bob

Hoping you can post some photos . . .

Have fun!

Peter

CruizinDux · 01-30-2016, 11:14 AM

[Peter - Can you repost or link to your pics of water heater bypass valve settings? I kick myself for not labeling the valves - which would be a small valve-added step they could do at the factory IMO - for both positions. I'm fairly confident that I got it right, but would prefer not to mess around with the valves too much when I get south and dewinterize. Thanks!

Darrell]

just (almost) getting caught up. I had laptop issues before we left and the bandwidth in at Mission Bay RV is also inconsistent.

In my 408 pictures the white is the supply. It is the inboard line/LP valve. The outboard or curbside line in ours is red...it is the the one the dealer will replace with the thumb style like Peter's. Our mfd date 10-31-13 and we have the older style valves.

This red/white is also consistent with normal WH plumbing...supply enters lower than hot return. In the pic it shows enough of the winterization sticker to get the idea the closed is perpendicular. The image shows open (inline)

When I had the AS at the dealer to check my plumbing and swap out the two LP drains (under warranty since I couldn't operate the curbside valve easily) I also talked abut the low point in the supply line just before the WH connection....the discussion of 408...they agreed and not only swung the arm up to just short of level but at the other end...tilted is slight so it really was below the other end.

I forgot (both) my camera connections at home so will follow up with images then. I'll also look at the on the road area suggested by Peter and post some text ...pics to follow.

So far it's been, Pismo(1), Crysta Cove (2), Mission Bay RV resort (5). Next stop Jamala Beach just west of Lompoc.

I need to go back thru the thread as it seems I may have a bit le leakage at the bypass valve at the pump) as the fresh water seems to be filling up ever so slightly...presumable from the city water. I'm even using a 55-55 regulator.

Thanks again Peter and TC for the heater feedback. Heat is operational, refer with ice and beer sub 40 degrees. Tunes and the TV are also dialed in. Huston, all systems are go!

: )))

Bob

OTRA15 · 01-30-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CruizinDux

[snip]
. . . Mission Bay RV resort . . .
[snip]
Houston, all systems are go!

: )))

Bob

Great news, and what a spot to spend the weekend! Amazing sunsets, right?

. . . [cue the Twilight Zone music] . . .

in January of 1996, 20 years ago, we spent a week across Mission Bay from you in our 25' AS during a 7-week round trip from NY to San Diego then Napa, and back. This was the PB campground I think.

http://www.campland.com/maps/technical-map.php

The NE had had a huge blizzard right after Christmas, which we missed and watched on the large TV screen of the mega-RV parked next to us in PB.

As we came west, which I described on another thread, we hit a blizzard in Amarillo TX and ended up cracking (during a hasty on-the-road winterization) a 90 elbow right at the bottom of the water heater. We did not discover this until turning on the water in PB. The slow leak flooded the carpet in the rear bedroom, and required removing the bed platform, carpet, and plumbing the next morning.

Fortunately there was a great hardware store open early -- on a Sunday as I recall -- which had the elbow AND the right size tap to clean out the female threads in the aluminum water heater, from which I had to carve out the cracked elbow, after it broke totally as I tried to back it out whole from the heater.

The hardware store was on or just south of Grand Ave., just north of our CG, in case you need one and it is still there. BTW is there an Orange Julius near you and I-5? Perhaps up near Garnet?

Oh, the telling takes me back . . . so many good times . . .

Have fun!

Peter

PS -- Are you going to catch some waves? PB has lots of local shore breaks, and Windansea is just north a bit, as you know, but most of the breaks are probably really crowded? Pretty cold water too this time of year.

Or Swami's?

http://www.surfline.com/surf-report/...lifornia_4789/

PS edit -- Ace Hardware is the only one I see now, but the location is right.

1544 Grand Ave, San Diego, CA 92109

Sreet View:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ho...a92ffd!6m1!1e1

Kittyfeet · 02-02-2016, 05:38 AM

I read through a lot of the posts, so sorry if someone has already answered this, but, any regrets about a single axle vs a tandem? Also, what is the consensus on the best WD and SC system for the FC 20?

Kittyfeet · 02-02-2016, 05:52 AM

Forgot to ask, anyone gone to 16" wheels and tires?

OTRA15 · 02-02-2016, 08:11 AM

Welcome to the forum, and this 20-footer thread, Kittyfeet!

TCWheels put 16" Sendel wheels and Michelin tires on. See Post 72, and later ones.

If I might make a couple of suggestions --

In general you can "Search this Thread" via the bar at the top of this thread. Also the site's search functions at the upper right work well, especially the Google option in the middle of the new frame which pops up IMO.

You will find tons of discussions about single vs. double axles by searching. Personally I went from a 25' 2-axle to a 20' single and am happy with the choice. The main disadvantage IMO is in the case of a tire blowing out obviously.

I have a Reese WD set up with 800 bars for my FC20 mainly because the dealer recommended it, and because I had Reese on the 25' back in the 90's, with sway control. My new tow vehicle has built-in sway control so the new Reese WD does not have sway control. There are also tons of threads on WD!

Lastly, did you know there is also a thread for 23FB owners? Bounce up a level at the top left to Flying Cloud link, and see the following thread listed there:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f516...rs-145910.html

Kittyfeet · 02-02-2016, 09:33 AM

Thank you so very much.

Kittyfeet · 02-02-2016, 10:24 AM

I really appreciate all the helpful comments people give on this website. It is so very helpful to use experiences others have had, to make our AS ventures more fun and safer. This one is especially important to me. My Granddaughter, who has camped with us for a long time, wants her own AS. She likes the FC 20. I just bought her a new F-150, Eco Boost, Platinum, fully tricked out with all towing options. Going to get the trailer for her when she decides for sure but had some areas of uncertainty that I want defined before I get it all rigged up for her. All your help is so important because we are talking about one load of very precious cargo.

OTRA15 · 02-02-2016, 10:30 AM

Kittyfeet, I hope you will be able to have your granddaughter check out the various models in person at a dealer. This really brings it all home. When the missus and I saw the 20-footer, with the corner galley and stall shower, we said almost in unison, "This is it!"

Much better than a picture worth a thousand words IMO . . .

The smaller wet bath models may also appeal to her for their ease of towing and maintenance, albeit with less of a full kitchen feel.

What a great gift you are giving!

Cheers,

Peter

Kittyfeet · 02-02-2016, 10:38 AM

Thanks. She has visited a number of dealers, just looking, and keeps going back to the FC 20. The choice is hers, but I am trying to encourage her to look at the 19s, 20s, 22s, and 23s, just for the size. Guess I should be glad she is not finding the Land Yacht to her liking. I am new myself to this website, so still learning how to navigate but realize there is a wealth of knowledge here from real experience. Looking forward to following her down the highway to a camping adventure.

TCwheels · 02-02-2016, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittyfeet

I really appreciate all the helpful comments people give on this website. It is so very helpful to use experiences others have had, to make our AS ventures more fun and safer. This one is especially important to me. My Granddaughter, who has camped with us for a long time, wants her own AS. She likes the FC 20. I just bought her a new F-150, Eco Boost, Platinum, fully tricked out with all towing options. Going to get the trailer for her when she decides for sure but had some areas of uncertainty that I want defined before I get it all rigged up for her. All your help is so important because we are talking about one load of very precious cargo.

Kittyfeet -

I'm doing genealogical research as we speak to see if I'm possibly related to you so that I might also benefit from your incredible generosity! Seriously, I echo Peter, what a fantastic gift! Having two grand-daughters myself, I very much appreciate the impact this will have on her life.

If you have any questions about my wheel/tire upgrade that isn't covered in the thread, just PM me.

I DID have a concern about single vs tandem axle before buying our 20. Curiously, my father did not buy an Airstream in 1968 for precisely that reason. He could not get a 22 or 23 foot trailer with tandem axles. Well, we had the most catastrophic failure possible relative to tires and wheels when we lost a complete wheel and tire assembly on the interstate in March of 2015! Our hitch and sway control system worked flawlessly and I remained in complete control of the rig at all times and was able to get off the highway safely and calmly. The failure occurred due to over torqued lug nuts that broke three of six studs sometime before we bought the Airstream. It may sound strange to say after that experience, but I would still buy another single axle trailer. I love the much better maneuverability as we are often camping in state and national forest campgrounds with tight spaces. That, coupled with the unique layout, fits our needs perfectly.

The only other trailer that we considered was the front bedroom 23 - that's a great unit, especially the International version - but there have been lots of times since we got the 20 that I've commented, while parking in tight spots, that we definitely made the right choice! And the rear bed 23 is, to me, a much inferior layout to the 20.

Good luck and welcome!

Kittyfeet · 02-02-2016, 11:58 AM

Thanks, let me know if we are "kin". I am as well impressed with the FC 20 layout. She will be traveling much of the time by herself, so a lot of additional room is not really important to her. We have pulled many horse trailers, all tandem, for many years and she can drive, pull, back and maneuver every bit as well as I can. I want to put on the 16" wheels and the best tire money can buy, still wondering about the WD and SC, but looking at the Propride. We will not have to take a lot of weight off the hitch and I wonder if that small amount would provide the necessary friction for SC of an Equal-I-zer. Still playing around.
Glad you handled the failure you had.

renderit · 02-03-2016, 01:50 AM

We have the Fastway E2 on ours. If you go with a bar setup versus a chain you have the sway built in. They each have their unique problems though. Read up on them and go to the vendors sites and watch their videos. If you go with bars many suggest round bars so they are easier on the trailer. The sizing is also counterintuitive so ask a lot of questions. The 20 was "in between" bar sizes on ours. We went up in size (800) because of the tongue weight possibly being over 600#.

The 20 is a fantastic trailer. We always wanted one. We had a 16 for a year and had the opportunity to move up to the 20. We love it. The bed could be bigger and the toilet could be lower but other than that we think it is just about perfect. It is so nice to have counter space and a usable bathroom. We bought a nice little stainless Steel microwave we carry in the shower while traveling to complete the kitchen. The oven is nice for sticky buns on a chilly morning. There is so much storage under the bed we empty it out into the garage at the end of the season so we have to reevaluate whether to put something back in. It's easy to forget stuff is there! Lots of large nooks and crannies under there to store fishing gear and poles, chairs, stoves for outside, griddles, grills, etc. as well as the tubs that come with it.

Joe Palmieri · 02-03-2016, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittyfeet

Thanks. She has visited a number of dealers, just looking, and keeps going back to the FC 20. The choice is hers, but I am trying to encourage her to look at the 19s, 20s, 22s, and 23s, just for the size. Guess I should be glad she is not finding the Land Yacht to her liking. I am new myself to this website, so still learning how to navigate but realize there is a wealth of knowledge here from real experience. Looking forward to following her down the highway to a camping adventure.

I have a 2013, FC 20 for sale. Less than 1000 miles, garage kept since new with 160 watts of solar panels and controller dealer installed. Send me a PM if you are interested.

Cucciolo · 02-03-2016, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittyfeet

I read through a lot of the posts, so sorry if someone has already answered this, but, any regrets about a single axle vs a tandem? Also, what is the consensus on the best WD and SC system for the FC 20?

Hi Kittyfeet! I bought the 20 foot because it was "just right" in Goldilocks terms. However, after some real life experiences with it I came to realize that the single axel on a coach this size leaves a smaller amount of weight for all your personal gear including fresh water! The limit is 740 lbs. Pretty slim IMO. A 23 footer with 2 axles would start you at the low end for the weight to axel ratio where the 20 foot is already at the top end.

I know that sounds like plenty of room but if you need to carry some water, food and gear it gets used up pretty fast. I weighed myself on CAT scales and was pleased to find that the WD system moves the weight I was over to the tow vehicle!

I use a Reese Duel Cam anti sway round bar system which does what it is designed to do. It took lots of noodling to dial in and you are supposed to adjust it regularly based on your loads using the lock bolts on the cams. I find all this way too fussy. I also experienced a bolt failure on one cam arm bracket in the middle of a long trip. Was a PITA to find someone to drill out the stripped holes and I had to have the parts shipped from eTrailer (it tells you something that they sell a repair kit for this exact issue). I also find the Reese makes a lot of noise at times. Straight down the hwy is fine but on city streets and campgrounds people turn their heads when I am coming!

As soon as I have an extra $700 I want to switch out the Reese to an Equalizer brand. But like I said the Reese does its job and I had used one with a different TV and coach and was fine with it. My current configuration just does not seem to be ideal.

Sorry for the long answer! No regrets for me on the 20 foot AS or my Jeep GC diesel.