20-footers

[knunut]

Beautiful camp site. Had the Side Awning installed ,one of best thing's we have done.
Main reason was privacy from large tall 5th wheel or class A looking down and watching us eat. Also keeps it much cooler. We had Zip Dee install,however recent post said they no longer do it. (Shame as we are a couple miles from them)

[CruizinDux]

Subfan1, thanks for the pics. I can see why tCrystal Cove and an AS was on the cover of Sunset Mag.



Otra15, I second that, as I went to college at SDSU and surfed much of this coast. There is much access and it looks like great camping has been developed.



Bob

[OTRA15]

OT -- Swami's, Windansea, Baja just north of Ensenada (forget the name). . . ?

A long time ago!

PS -- This cam is dark now, but it looks like it is working:

http://www.surfline.com/surf-report/...lifornia_4789/

[subfan1]

Hi everyone, we're home now. Sorry about not getting sunset shot but, my 2 week old iPhone 6s just froze Friday night. I'll see what the Apple people can do to make this right. Using iPad now


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[StanandLynn]

Just purchased a 2012 20 footer. We really like it so far, looking for mod ideas and possible problems. Gone from a 25 Sleep Six, 2009 28 footer, '96 34 footer, 2012 27FB and, lastly, a 396 MoHo. Just cut our footage in half. Tagging to stay with the thread.

[TCwheels]

Originally Posted by StanandLynn

Just purchased a 2012 20 footer. We really like it so far, looking for mod ideas and possible problems. Gone from a 25 Sleep Six, 2009 28 footer, '96 34 footer, 2012 27FB and, lastly, a 396 MoHo. Just cut our footage in half. Tagging to stay with the thread.

Welcome aboard the 20 thread!

I'm in the process of adding an accumulator tank. Via testing I can tell it's going to make a big difference in cycling and smooth flow. 'In the process of' because I've got a pesky leaker that I haven't fixed yet. Just needed to take a break from standing on my head to do plumbing under the pot drawer under the stove!

[CruizinDux]

subfan1, thanks for the daylight pic. It look like a great park. I'm hoping to see the sunsets in person in a few months.

Otra15, I'll send you a PM soon....that will be San Miguel 10 Kilometers N of Hussong's Cantina., many moons ago


StanandLynn. Welcome to the 20's thread!

I inadvertently unsubscribed this thread, so I hope the comments reinstates the subscribed thread status

[OTRA15]

TCWheels, you have taken that bottom drawer off its slides I assume? They are awkward to release, and even more difficult to reinstall (at least in my model year), but having that big drawer out of the way helps with access to the pump area under the Atwood range/oven. I plan to replace the pump with a quieter one at some point, as others on the forum have done in other models (if memory serves). There is plenty of room down there . . .

Sounds good, Bob, guessin' we might have spent time in similar haunts a while ago . . .

subfan1 -- bummer about the new iPhone 6s. Curious to hear more, as I almost upgraded to that model recently, but instead got a better iPad Mini. With an Otter outer skin and base, it fits perfectly in the bottom of my steering wheel in landscape mode (while parked that is!). Perfect for typing during coffee break.

And welcome Stan and Lynn!

PS -- I have received the 2 Silenx replacement fans for the fridge cooling, but have not felt the need to install the first one, as the problem has gone away in the cooler weather. [See Post 263 here]

[CruizinDux]

TCWheels, you have taken that bottom drawer off its slides I assume? They are awkward to release, and even more difficult to reinstall (at least in my model year), but having that big drawer out of the way helps with access to the pump area under the Atwood range/oven.

Interesting, the AS is in to the dealer to install the bike rack and a few other warranty items including that drawer glide. I pulled out the drawer to get a pump visual as I'm considering installing a weatherization kit for the antifreeze. I pulled on the drawer and is hit the floor. Seems the factory or the dealer prep crew had a bit of a problem too. Aside from the release underneath being broken and the oven door hitting the drawer top when opening it I was unable to get the glide on one side to connect/stay connected.


I'm getting ready to do our first weatherization run through as it sometimes gets into the low 30's/high 20's in December in Eugene. I'm not sure if we'll get our planned weekend in before then. I attended a weatherization 101 class last weekend at another dealership and they indicated that for this area, they only empty tanks and blow out the lines, add AF to the traps/toilet, but not do an "east coast" weatherization with the anti-freeze. I'd love to hear other's experiences.


I'd prefer not to add the AF to the lines as we contemplate some winter use and prefer not to go through the flush out that the AF entails. Remember I'm a newbie with one summer tip under our belt, so I'll still trying to understand the systems and locate all the low point etc. drain valves. Comments and advice appreciated.

Bob

[OTRA15]

Yup, same thing happened with my bottom drawer after I left the dealer to come home. I found the drawer on the floor during a rest stop. Turns out the plywood of the drawer's face piece had delaminated, and the short screws for the drawer slide base plate had pulled out a couple of veneers of the plywood. I had to glue it all up again, and use longer screws. The dealer offered to do this, but a 500' mile trip was not worth it, obviously.

[edit -- ditto on the difficulty of reconnecting the drawer slide hardware to its drawer part. It was helpful to lie and the floor, and watch how the top drawer under the counter worked, as doing the bottom drawer only by feel is not at all intuitive. I have never seen this brand of slide before, but there is probably SOME benefit to them in a vehicle in motion. Standard slides could be problematic on the road IMO>]
____

I never used anti-freeze in my old Airstream, and did fine. I was careful to be redundant about:

1.1 doing a gravity drain of all stopcocks, and drains at the bottoms of things like the water heater;

1.2 replace/close all drain plugs and stopcocks;

2. blow out all lines (one at a time) @ 20 PSI, including toilet sprayer/valve, outdoor shower H&C, kitchen sink sprayer, etc.;

3. repeat 1. and 2;

4. open stopcocks and remove drain plugs and store carefully or re-insert just finger tight.

5. Add AF to all traps (kit. sinks/shower/toilet/etc) being generous so that an extra gallon or so would end up spending the winter in the grey and black water tanks;

[edit] 6. disconnect fresh water supply from tank to pump, at the pump, and blow into it to force any misc. water back into the tank (because the air pressure blowing out of the lines does not affect this short run).

Notes attached to the fresh water fill, and to the city water and black water tank hose connections were insurance for relatives and friends in case yours truly was not around to "summerize" things. Tape the terlit lid down with a note in case curiosity gets the best of a winter visitor.

The owner's manual is good to check too.

"Measure twice, remain thawed once . . . "

After you do this once, it becomes easier, and as you say Bob, helps you learn your systems first-hand, which helped me once, as a rushed drain-down in Texas cost us a split plastic elbow buried deep under the bed, behind the hot water heater, in San Diego. No fun, but at least I had the tools and a great Pacific Beach hardware store open early on a Sunday morning. DIY is a great way to go when OTRA -- On The Road Again!

[TCwheels]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

TCWheels, you have taken that bottom drawer off its slides I assume? They are awkward to release, and even more difficult to reinstall (at least in my model year), but having that big drawer out of the way helps with access to the pump area under the Atwood range/oven. I plan to replace the pump with a quieter one at some point, as others on the forum have done in other models (if memory serves). There is plenty of room down there . . .

Yes, I removed the bottom drawer off its slides. I didn't have trouble putting it back, because I had similar systems in my house before I replaced everything with full extension slides so I know the trick!

[CruizinDux]

OTRA15 & TCwheels, Thanks comments appreciated on the drawer and recommended posture. It’s repaired and seems to be operational. I’ll take your advice as I’d like a better view & understanding of the glides, their release and what keeps them from gliding when in transit.
OTRA15, thanks too for the winterization punch list. That confirmed what I suspected. I saw the 2 low point drains protruding under the WH, so knew, contrary to my initial snapshot and visual search which only revealed the one LP drain plus the diverter, that both LP’s valves were truly there. It appears ours is underneath the black box/WH, behind and to the left of the visible valve. The black box seems to rest almost on top of the valve so it was with much difficulty that I finally reached and turned the ¼ turn to open status and back closed again. The dealer said the valve will loosen up with use and it does seem that after a few open/closes, that may be true. Time will tell. However I’m thinking that buried under the bed may be an easier location.
Bob

[TCwheels]

I completed the accumulator tank install, fixed the leak, and it works great. Didn't quiet the pump much - I'll probably replace it soon - but definitely helps with the cycling and creates smoother flow. I actually thought I'd turned the pump off because it didn't come on when I ran the galley faucet for a bit. Nice mod, glad I did it...

[subfan1]

Very nice TC, where did you install the accumulator tank? Any install pictures?
I put some carpet and installed hoses on both pump ends and the pump quieted down some. I'm going to find small size noodles on the hoses and tie wrap them down. I think that will make the difference I'm looking or hearing for.


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[OTRA15]

Thanks guys.

Ditto to subfan1 -- looking forward to seeing photos and tank specs, if you have time TCWheels. My impression is that a quieter pump swap-out will be my first project. The forums are full of threads which touch on this, but this one suggests a couple of Shurflo options which look good to these eyes: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...mp-139285.html

These two pumps are both bypass pumps, which are supposed to be quieter under low flow demand apparently by sending excess water back to the intake ("bypass"):

The 4048 High Flow is 4 GPM: SHURFLO® 4048 High Flow Pump

The 4008 is 3 GPM: SHURFLO® REVOLUTION™ Pump 12 VDC 3.0 GPM | REVOLUTION™ 4008 Pumps

The data sheets for these two pumps do not have any stated decibel levels, but both claim to be quiet.

Not sure what our OEM pumps are, but I will check mine out when I have time. I have a feeling the 4008's lower flow rate will be OK and better for water conservation when not hooked up to city water. My only showers have been with city water. The 4008 draws only 7.5 amps vs. 10 for the 4048. Both are just under 5" high, is there room for this under the drawer? Our FC model years span 2011 to 2014, so I am curious if we have the same OEM pump and available space.

If a quieter pump does not do the trick on its own, some vibration dampening isolation foot pads will be the next step. Is there enough clear vertical height under the large drawer for this? TBD

With the right quieter pump, I think an accumulator may not be needed. One downside -- a new pump will not include the AS warranty. TBD

PS -- If we do not have the vertical height available for a Shurflo pump, maybe there is room for isolation foot pads for our OEM pumps? Thank you for any thoughts and new ideas.

[OTRA15]

PS2 after edit window -- TCWheels, by any chance did you use one of these accumulators?

Accumulators

They have a silencing kit also: http://shurflo.com/rv-products/rv-ac...-silencing-kit

Plus they make a 2.3 GPM model which draws 5 amps. With the right shower head, this may suffice and would be better for boondocking? The size is similar.

http://shurflo.com/rv-products/rv-pu...12-vdc-2-3-gpm

Thanks

[OTRA15]

Following up on the new pump idea --

For better access the 1x4-ish vertical kick valance under the drawer is held in place by four blind screws toe-screwed into the adjoining casework, so it should be easy to remove, thereby giving clear access from the floor up.

The bottom of the drawer is over 6" AFF (above finish floor), so there is plenty of room for a new pump. The high point of the plumbing down there, however, is actually the check valve (and/or vacuum breaker) on the right between the pump and I assume the potable water tank. The drawer clears this valve but not by much, so raising the pump for vibration dampeners may create a new problem. [see below]

Now the bad news. My 2014 FC20 already has the Shurflow 4048 pump, in theory a quieter pump. Hah !!!

As I was on the floor checking this all out, and running the water at different flows, I could feel the floor vibrating both inside the pump area, as well as at the main floor between the pump and bathroom door. Also the offensive noise is actually more in the bass range IMO, leading me to surmise that the pump (securely fastened to the floor) is actually working like the pedal and striker pad of a bass drum, and creating a bass resonance under the floor. This sound is trapped between the floor and the lower skin panel on the coach, thus the bass drum effect. Put the palm of your hand on the floor and then run some water. See? As Tommy said, "see me, feel me . . . " [ for the 60's and 70's lads and lassies here ]

The next thing I will do is remove the four (? -- only 2 visible) mounting screws and slip a foam pad between the pump base and the floor. Expecting a quieter pump . . . TBD.

This is an acoustic management problem, as much as anything else IMO.

Next chapter to be about isolation vibration dampeners, and any associated height problems viz a vis the vacuum breaker check valve.

Ain't trailerin' fun Jethro . . . ?

PS in the thread I cited earlier, I think someone actually suspended their pump using shock cord or something like that, and reported good results. Not sure I want such a flimsy low tech solution, but it may prove that noise management is the path to take here through the woods . . .

[teagues]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

For better access the 1x4-ish vertical kick valance under the drawer is held in place by four blind screws toe-screwed into the adjoining casework, so it should be easy to remove, thereby giving clear access from the floor up.

On ours, there were dowels in addition to the pocket screws. Made it a little harder to remove.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by teagues

On ours, there were dowels in addition to the pocket screws. Made it a little harder to remove.

Good to know, thanks. Did you do anything to reduce the pump noise?

Also wondering if you decided to keep the fridge on when you are on the road, as discussed on another thread last year? My old 25' was set up better for this. I guess it is worth a try, as the safety will turn off the gas if there is no ignition.

Thanks.

[subfan1]

We were able to get away for another weekend at the beach, this week at San Clemente SB