20-footers

[eagletoo]

Peter,
We traded in our 23CB for the 23FB. Colonial was a pleasure/fair to make it happen. Just wanted you to know.

[OTRA15]

Thanks Bruce, could you highlight why? The improved bed is pretty obvious, but is the galley acceptable, for instance, and and have you added any flip-up counters etc.?

Peter

[eagletoo]

Peter,
Comparing the FB to the CB...

Pros:
Much more comfortable/safer bath area. Queen bed is delightful as is the under bed storage.
I thought the small galley storage would not work but we have been surprised that it does. We might put in sliding shelves in one of the huge closets but so far there is no need.
Plenty of clothing storage.

Cons:
Less windows than the CB. No skylight. No lounge area but there are only two of us so no problem.
Outside storage space is limited.
Dinette area needs to be used so one can figure out what table position works - since it swivels.

[OTRA15]

Thanks Bruce.

Peter

[CruizinDux]

[QUOTE=subfan1: .... Two axels. We will now be traveling more often and taking longer trips. Safety margin, although Bob just made a long trip without issues. False since of security on my part? Wife really does like the floor plan on the 23 living area does make a difference in a smaller unit especially with bad weather outside....../QUOTE]

jose you're going to love the 23...certainky more real estate. 2 people and 2 dogs is a little close when it's pouring and you're going thru dog towels like TP after some bad chili

Certainly the 20 has less storage and that was pushed to the max recently. Now where did we stash the [...you name it].

The crawl over sucks, in fact we make the dinette up. 1) so one of us doesn't have to make the midnight crawl...but 2) also so the old dog who sleeps in the bed can first make it to the dinette level on the approach to the bed. I get the dinette with the smaller dog. I control the night stereo and also get up sooner anyway.

As for packin for the extended, i'm sure we were tongue heavy and pushing the 5k level too..how do you pack for snow and flip flops anyway. Actually pulled out the down jacket a couple of times and i run warmer than the wife. Does the kit sink include cloths.

The good news is that while in transit, the shower holds a ton of heavy dog food for ballast. This is the first long trip that i did not weigh. When the morning of departure and the refer propane didn't fire, i headed to the dealer instead of the scales. DUH....it's 26 degrees outside...less in the refer. No call for cool! At any rate i suspect we were on the margins, both TT and TV...food, books wine whatever...way to many cloths options. Learned a lot in that respect on this trip. There is a lot to be said about that margin. The 20 has a heavier frame and as a bambi, less margin to play with. Just something to be aware of. Having..looking forward to 2 months and Maine in the fall

Having said that..the 20 is our best fit

Maybe a couple of nights at Twin Fams

Have a great cruise.

B

[Putemback]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

Yes, the Tacoma with a WD hitch and aftermarket brake controller tows the FC20 very well. HP and torque are not an issue, but payload rating of 1175 lbs. might be with the Double Cab.


Quick calculation of the 20 FC tongue weight of 650 lbs. plus hitch weight of 80 lbs. plus driver and passenger roughly 300 lbs. gives you 1030 lbs. That leaves you 145 lbs. for any other passengers, pets, or gear like bikes, kayaks, bar-b-que, etc. that won't pack easily inside the trailer.


The Access Cab which we have gets you another 120 lbs. of payload at the price of the full size back seat. Take the numbers above, add in an 80 lb. dog, two 30 lb. bikes, a 40 lb. rack, and a few other odds and ends and we get within 60 lbs. of the 1295 lbs. GVWR.

Thanks Smithcreek for your comments. We are moving to the AS from a teardrop trailer. We are used to traveling without too much extra "stuff." Wife and I would add ~265lbs (we're not big people) plus 2 dogs with total weight of 65-70lbs. No bikes, no racks, no heavy bbq, no generators. We need the double cab for the 2 dogs and fly rods, dog food, and light weight things. I think we'll be OK with payload weight. I really appreciate your commentary re: payload weight.

I am curious to know if you use some kind of aftermarket clip-on towing mirrors or is that not necessary with a 20 footer. I did not use towing mirrors with our teardrop and had no problems, but it is narrower and shorter, only 17-18 feet, compared to the AS 20.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Putemback

. . .
I am curious to know if you use some kind of aftermarket clip-on towing mirrors or is that not necessary with a 20 footer. I did not use towing mirrors with our teardrop and had no problems, but it is narrower and shorter, only 17-18 feet, compared to the AS 20.

I would recommend extra towing mirrors, because you want to see behind the FC20 as much as possible, which it is wider (as you recognize).

The Tacoma's OEM mirrors are closer together than, say, the ones on a Tundra, so the blind-spot cone is wider aft of the trailer. You may not miss having extra mirrors until your really need them, for instance for a quick evasive maneuver . . . then the song kicks in . . .

"You Don't Miss Your Water 'Til Your Well Runs Dry!

Happy trails,

Peter

[CruizinDux]

Putemback, here is what we use for the Highlander.

http://www.milenco.com/products/mirr...-towing-mirror

not perfect but work. Extended to the max I can see behind the trailer, but more on the DS than the CS. I was originally was going with the standard hand from the door type that extend out but didn't want to deal with the bracket that slips between the window and the door seal, thinking moisture intrusion in weather but also the wear and tear on the window up down.

They do vibrate a somewhat (as I have them fully extended) so the image in the mirror is not perfect, but then again I'm not trying to read a license plate, just see who is there.


bob

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by Putemback

Thanks Smithcreek for your comments. We are moving to the AS from a teardrop trailer. We are used to traveling without too much extra "stuff." Wife and I would add ~265lbs (we're not big people) plus 2 dogs with total weight of 65-70lbs. No bikes, no racks, no heavy bbq, no generators. We need the double cab for the 2 dogs and fly rods, dog food, and light weight things. I think we'll be OK with payload weight. I really appreciate your commentary re: payload weight.

I am curious to know if you use some kind of aftermarket clip-on towing mirrors or is that not necessary with a 20 footer. I did not use towing mirrors with our teardrop and had no problems, but it is narrower and shorter, only 17-18 feet, compared to the AS 20.

You should be fine for payload, and I did not mention we don't come anywhere near GAWR for the trailer itself, so stuff could definitely go in there and would if it had to. Just easier to put in the pickup.

Yes, mirrors are pretty much necessary IMO and in many states legally required. I did the first few trips without them and really did not like to have to ask my wife if I was clear on her side. Typical lane change was: "So, there's no one there? Can you see behind at all? Are you sure? Ok, I'm starting to move over, let me know if anyone suddenly jumps out from behind. I'm still good?


I bought the Dometic Milenco Aero3, they work fine but I can't say any other brands would not work as well or better. Some people have stronger opinions about which ones to get.


edit: I see Otra and Cruzin got you squared away before I answered. Like Cruzin, I extend them all the way out and although they are a bit jittery I just need to keep track of where other vehicles are.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by CruizinDux

. . .
Having said that..the 20 is our best fit.
. . .

Hi Bob, dredging up an old project for completion this year . . . upgrade of the plastic anti-siphon black-water flush valve to the brass replacement unit sent by our dealer. Here is where to start reading from 2017:

[click on orange arrows to go to Post #1601 et seq.]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

We need to remove the rear part of the dinette (at the bath wall), in order to replace the vacuum breaker anti-siphon valve in the black water tank rinse system.
. . .

Originally Posted by TCwheels

Dinette removed!
. . .

Darryll's third photo suggests [IMO] that access to the black-water anti-siphon flush valve is easy for our model year IMO, and maybe to the city water feed as well.



Darryll posted more photos a couple of pages later with his flush valve in a different location, and there is a photo of our valve in Post #1611:


The back of our dinette would be to the right in this photo I think. That yellow ring on the left is the city water feed.

I am hoping to take a look at this during 2019 . . . after some real camping trips soon hopefully.

Peter

[smithcreek]

Peter, FYI the dinette is made of a base and upper. I just removed the upper because I could not reach at least one or two screws for the base which were buried under a large wiring harness. Also had to remove the outside shower box for access. I just replaced my flush tank check valve with the same plastic one a few days ago, wish I had found a brass one.

[CruizinDux]

Thanks SC. This also my summer project. Seems Camano20 removed the vanity top in the br for access instead of the vanity. I need to locate that post as maybe that route might have some other advantages.

Interesting on the 2 part upper/lower unit. I'll have to tale a closer look tomorrow. Any chance you have a pic or two? Not sure i understand why the out side the shower box works into this repair. Mine seems to be just below the vanity top.

B

[CruizinDux]

So here are a few images taken during the trip. Peter is your an AS (Brass) part or just one the dealer shipped to you and available from a BBox or plumbing supply? Assuming it it is reasonable accessible, it looks like reg NPT and a screw off and back on.


If I get the vanity top off, I'm also thinking of opening up the alu around the BW thumb connection but also maybe making a cabinet opening in the adjacent bulkhead of the vanity....both for a better access for a regular turn the thumbscrew touch up, but also for heat circulation.

I also should add I noticed a few lines in this area that should slope down for better and easier winterization that currently slope up. Same issue I had at the WH making it almost impossible to get al the moisture out if the line....just gurgles forever)
B

[CruizinDux]

Peter just found this...Think I'll go by a plumbing supply. Interesting too the vacuum breaker and the check valve are different parts. The plastic OEM seems to be only one part.


thx
b



http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...ml#post1708060



p.s.

is everybody using the whole kit. Seems the vacuum breaker and the check valve are all that are needed.


b

[OTRA15]

You just found the post I was going to look for next! I am going to get in some camping before I do anything about this BTW.

Also your photos in the previous post look like your valve is located in a different spot than mine I think -- more like Darryll's in the 2017 Post #1630:




More later /. . .

PS thanks smithcreek.

[CruizinDux]

I think the location immediately rear of the exterior of the shower box look the same or closets, but the plumbing below the breaker on the outflow side seems diff. Yours has a t and mine dies not, at least at your height.

I'm also learning the terms...your plans show separate check valve and vac breaker, but the pic is one part and utilizes nipple to allow for distance of the vert lines and use of the ell. I have only seen the one part.

I bought a camco wand with the spinning head while otr and it works like a charm until you need to carry it thru the coach to put it away

[CruizinDux]

Ok...confused here.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...ml#post1708060

So we have a new brass vac breaker yet still need a check valve?

I thought the vac breaker prevents back flow? What am a missing?

https://www.bing.com/search?pc=DOWI&...vacuum+breaker

https://www.bing.com/search?pc=DOWI&...of+check+valve

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by CruizinDux

Seems Camano20 removed the vanity top in the br for access instead of the vanity.

D'oh! I didn't even think to see if the top of the vanity might have been removable. That might have been the easier route than the dinette.

[CruizinDux]

SC, well that remains to be seen. I really do remember (not a sr moment) the post, but it's not Jerry (Camino20) as I heard from him.


I'll post a general ? and the link on the 20's thread.


All I remember was discussion about the challenge of the little screws and L Brackets. Of course extreme care must be at hand to not scratch the walls pulling up the top.


I really want to open this up from the top so I can make some cuts and get some better warm air circulation back and into the void.


Granted my damage night in Tehachapi was cold but only about 26 and everything else survived. I think what got me was the connection was to windward. I also had some challenges clearing the line at winterization so there may have been some residual there or a even a failure. If had used one of those foam faucet connections I probably would have been fine. I padded the ext shower with some towels so it seemed fine.


b

[CruizinDux]

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...ml#post2231924




looking to jog someones memory....maybe mine.


Did you replace the BW valve by removing the counter top instead of the traditional path of removing the dinette by the BR/\.


b