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Old 10-06-2018, 06:15 PM   #2341
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2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor , New York
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Welcome to the forum and the 20-footer thread, Rovin Raven! Starting at Post #1600 there are quite a few posts and photos you may find interesting.

Please post photos if you do the work.

Thanks,

Peter

[click on orange arrow to go directly to Post #1600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCwheels View Post
. . .
Speaking of the dinette, I MAY be removing it this weekend!
. . .
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:17 PM   #2342
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Specific question for the 20’ crowd:
Has anyone removed the forward dividing wall and sliding accordion door in their 20’FC?
Well, it isn’t really a “wall”, but basically the wood divider between the bed and th dinette, which has the accordion divider attached to it (I’d take out the rail above of course as well).

My thinking is this:
1) I really never ever close that accordion door.
2) the rail looks just...like a total afterthought
3) the wall breaks up the small space making it smaller and I think it would look a lot better without it.
4) although it probably doesn’t weight that much, but it weighs something (all together) and that would just be less weight forward of the axle in the 20’

What I don’t know:
A) is that wooden part of the wall structurally significant?
B) is the wood part needed for the overhead cabinets?
C) if I removed it, would I find some ugly seam or gap in the aluminum?

Anyway, I wanted to post and see if anyone had done this or maybe even had a picture.

V/R,
Wskcondor
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:22 PM   #2343
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There was a discussion here or in another thread, a couple of years ago, about removing that "door." We happen to like it, but I am guessing that it is fine to remove it. That would probably expose a few screw holes, which can be filled with rivets, or perhaps a seam in the interior skin [is this where the compound-curved end cap transitions to simpler sidewall curved panels?].

I will look at ours in the morning and report back.

Peter

PS -- These search results might help in the investigation:

https://www.google.com/search?q=acco...=airforums.com
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:24 PM   #2344
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I have a question for all you 20FC friends. When you open your trunk and look to the right, there is what appears to be a small tunnel. Does anyone know if that tunnel stops there or is open and is a passageway to the pump and furnace area under the cabinets?
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:29 PM   #2345
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Probably open to the area behind the pump and under the oven. Will look in the morning.

Peter
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:39 AM   #2346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialman View Post
I have a question for all you 20FC friends. When you open your trunk and look to the right, there is what appears to be a small tunnel. Does anyone know if that tunnel stops there or is open and is a passageway to the pump and furnace area under the cabinets?
Yes, it is open for air, and water pipes to the furnace and water pump area.

I use it for 1 of my airflow tunnels when I colder weather camp.

LynnSr
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:02 AM   #2347
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Ditto to Lynn on the tunnel.

Wskcondor, the curved upper track looks easy to remove, but will leave exposed screw holes in the ceiling. The plywood partition between the bed and dinette is definitely helping to hold up the cabinets over the dinette IMO. You could remove it temporarily, and reduce the amount that it projects away from the wall, but a permanent removal would compromise things IMO, and the upper cabinet could tear itself out of the wall during road action.

Peter
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:07 AM   #2348
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Thanks Lynnsr.....I thought that the "tunnel" was probably open. I run a space heater in the winter to keep things warm and imagine that some of it gets back into the trunk as well, since that is an opening
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:45 AM   #2349
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People are strange, right. But you can’t judge a person by their trailer anymore than their car. (What they are using today could be a rental, a quick, cheap purchase, a friend’s rv, and next year they purchase another.) However, it is interesting to travel and meet other rvers and hear what they want in an rv. We’ve traveled across country twice in ours, up to 8 weeks-long. We’ve met folks who can’t wait to get a class A as big as their house, to a couple spending over $160,000 on a new pick up with insert designed for off-road adventures. We love our 20-foot and you gradually learn how to do most maintenance with books, videos and the forum.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:05 AM   #2350
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Did you see my earlier reply about removing the dinette?
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:05 AM   #2351
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LP water heater has failed AGAIN!

So I did a little more research and found this is happening all to frequently with new Atwood water heaters.

If you do a search it is now apparent that Atwood has a significant design flaw and or their circuit board supplier (in China) has a manufacturing flaw.

The system works for a little while, and this time for me it worked for a few months, maybe four camping trips, but only two when I really used the LP for water heat.

Then it stops. It is NOT the thermal cutoff, which I previously had searched and found people to stock up on. (Not I have two extra new ones, but I don’t mind as they weren’t really expensive). It isn’t a fuse either. It is the circuit board where the sparker comes from. I did the ATWOOD troubleshooting previously which led me to the circuit board. Of course the Airstream dealer has to do their own TS (and they are short on those parts because...THEY KEEP FAILING (helo....)).
The found they needed to replace the board (once they got one in stock) and this fixed the issue immediately.

Now I will be on my third water heater circuit board, and will be about a month away from my 1 year warranty expiration. I am confident the new board will work for a few times and then fail when I am camping somewhere cold.

If you happen to search my posts (there aren’t many of them) I have had a ton of issues with this brand new 2018 FC 20’. Eventually I guess you make it your own and take on all the maintenance and “handcraft” it, but a trailer this expensive should not be a project in year ONE.
I returned from the Angeles Forest and went straight to LA Airstream (I am towing with my Tesla MOdel X so...there is some more logistics and planning I usually need to do when towing this 5000 lb trailer). Left it on Sunday and Aaron isn’t in today (Columbus Day) so we will see what he says tomorrow.

A letter to Airstream in Ohio is probably in order. Although they already know about this issue and I think are trying to work with Atwood on it. For now it is...replace failed defective parts with more about-to-fail-defective parts. I cannot imagine this is good financial business for Airstream and their maintenance crews. But in a vicious cycle I guess that is part of what makes it so expensive to begin with.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:14 AM   #2352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Ditto to Lynn on the tunnel.

Wskcondor, the curved upper track looks easy to remove, but will leave exposed screw holes in the ceiling. The plywood partition between the bed and dinette is definitely helping to hold up the cabinets over the dinette IMO. You could remove it temporarily, and reduce the amount that it projects away from the wall, but a permanent removal would compromise things IMO, and the upper cabinet could tear itself out of the wall during road action.

Peter
Thanks for the info, Peter.
My track isn’t curved. I am wondering if we are talking about the same thing. The track that the accordion door slides on in my 2018 FC20’ is straight across and isn’t attached to the ceiling, but is attached to the wardrobe on one side and the dividing wall on the other side. So probably (certainly) there would be screw holes left there, but maybe not on the ceiling.
I read one post that all the structural strength was in the frame and exterior walls. That is to say, you can gut an entire Airstream and it is just as strong and you can build whatever inside. But that was about a very much older model (as you know so many of them DO get gutted and then re-done). So I do not know if they changed the way they do the engineering or not.

I was just hoping to find someone who might have done this mod.

V/R,
Bill
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:30 AM   #2353
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Different tracks for different model years I guess, but yours should be fine to remove, for the structural reasons you state IMO.

Peter
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:17 AM   #2354
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20-footers

On the water heater issue. Get a dinosaur board instead of the current crappy Atwood replacement board.

The Dinosaur boards are made better. Some have reported getting Airstream to pay for one. Search the forums a bit for better details.

The more I read about this, the happier I am that I went to a PrecisionTemp tankless water heater.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:54 AM   #2355
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We retrofitted a German made Truma AquaGo Comfort model instant on propane only water heater into both our 2014 31' Classic and 2015 23D International Serenity our ing 2015. I gained 50 pounds of useful load as there is no six gallon hot water storage necessary and these units are both lighter and slightly smaller than the Atwood units. They are easy to winterize by just opening the hatch and with the water turned off to the trailer, pull down a lever and the small water tank drains in a few seconds. Winterizing done.

Also, this model is capable of turning on intermittently in really cold weather to keep itself from freezing when on the road or camping.

They have a another model that can be used to heat the water for baseboard heating like Airstream is now installing in the Classics.
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:35 AM   #2356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Did you see my earlier reply about removing the dinette?
Yes. But I can’t get TC to answer me. I got a message that they are at the limit of saved messages and can’t receive anymore. (Sounds like voicemail). I also tried commenting on that original post. Do you have any other ideas?
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:38 AM   #2357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
We need to remove the rear part of the dinette (at the bath wall), in order to replace the vacuum breaker anti-siphon valve in the black water tank rinse system, so your experience will be helpful to know. I did a little preliminary R&D last year, and it looks to me like removing a few screws at the top of the back of the dinette, and some inside the bottom into the floor, will do the job.

I think the screws used in assembly are really soft pot metal or aluminum, so it may be challenging to remove them with a screw gun, without stripping them. When I took the A/C shroud off last year, I had a similar problem, and used new screws of a harder black steel. Even SS screws are soft, especially when the angle of the screw gun has to be a bit off, due to the location of the screw.

Look forward to your report, and good luck!

Peter

PS -- FWIW -- not sure how easy it will be to remove the upholstery fabric from the hard surfaces, as it may be glued on with some kind of contact cement IMO, which can be a bear to remove all traces of, in order to put on new laminate. I would recommend starting, say, at the floor where the fabric is least visible, and see if you can get an edge removed, then work your way up. If the fabric does not come off easily, it will be simple to glue/cement the fabric back down out of sight.
I would love some advice on removing the dinette. ( I will be taking it to a reupholstered.)
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:40 AM   #2358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Welcome to the forum and the 20-footer thread, Rovin Raven! Starting at Post #1600 there are quite a few posts and photos you may find interesting.

Please post photos if you do the work.

Thanks,

Peter

[click on orange arrow to go directly to Post #1600]
Thank you!
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:51 AM   #2359
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If you read the posts I referenced it should be fairly clear IMO. I am on the road now and can't go into detail. You may have to read 20-30 posts to find the relevant ones.

Just "Quote" whatever post is confusing, and someone will reply here, even if it is not TCwheels. [ . . . although he is usually quite good -- they may be on a trip IMO.]


Peter
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:17 AM   #2360
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I, too, am very frustrated with the water heater. It hasn't worked correctly since I bought my Airstream new in 2016. I have had it in for repairs numerous times. At one point, Atwood agreed to pay for repairs just before the warranty ran out. The goofball at the RV repair place said it only needed an adjustment. Atwood backed out and I paid $240 for that expensive lesson. This summer, I didn't do any boondocking and was able to use the heater on it's electric option. On my "to do" list is to write Airstream corporate, Atwood and the repair facility.
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