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Old 10-27-2017, 04:25 PM   #21
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Maggie with all due respect you are not contributing to this discussion. If a new owner has chosen to learn how to do this himself, and the provided manual is not comprehensive, and he has asked someone with a lot of experience (me) to help him with it the first time--that is his prerogative. While I'm confident in my abilities, this forum is always the best source of verified information from hand-on owners like Bud, who are happy to help with guidance when needed, so I can confirm I get it right on one of the details that I wasn't 100% familiar with.

If that is confounding to you, that's fine but why clog the thread with argumentative or critical posts?

Have a wonderful day!
And with all due respect, just registering my confusion and opinion at not just this thread but many similar others.

Glad Bud has chimed in to provide detailed help, as he always is so willing to do.


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Old 10-27-2017, 05:12 PM   #22
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I'm with you Maggie! Confuses me too.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:32 PM   #23
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Winterizing a 2018 Classic

Just an 1 additional thing.
When dewinterizing, I like to sanitize the system at the same time. So fill your fresh tank, add the correct amount of bleach and pump it though the system. Allow it to stand for the predetermined amount of time, then flush out.

I also prefer to not blow out the antifreeze upon winterizing. I leave it in the system to do its job. The antifreeze can dry out and leave residue in the water system.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:55 PM   #24
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Just an 1 additional thing.
When dewinterizing, I like to sanitize the system at the same time. So fill your fresh tank, add the correct amount of bleach and pump it though the system. Allow it to stand for the predetermined amount of time, then flush out.

I also prefer to not blow out the antifreeze upon winterizing. I leave it in the system to do its job. The antifreeze can dry out and leave residue in the water system.
Thanks. When I use antifreeze I leave it in too. It doesn't make a difference in the spring time-wise. After filling the fresh tank and pressuring the pump, the faucets are all running clear within just a minute or two anyway, then have to leave them flushing for at least a full tank of water anyway. I learned my lesson one year by not flushing long enough. On my first trip, after a few days my water had a decidely antifreeze odor to it, even though it seemed clear after I flushed at home. Now I flush it super thorougly.) The residue thing I hadn't tought of, though I imagine it would dissolve quickly, why worry about it. One less thing as Forrest Gump would say.
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Old 10-28-2017, 04:26 AM   #25
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I have learned (the hard way) that sometimes the bleach used for sanitizing does not play nice with some brands of RV antifreeze. It will leave behind a really strange tasting and smelling "something" that is really hard to get rid of. Just for that reason, I'd flush out the antifreeze first, then sanitize after thoroughly removing the antifreeze.
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Old 10-28-2017, 04:46 AM   #26
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Thank you all for your info on all this. We did use the dealer's AS technician to do the winterizing. I also had a conversation with Mike from AS customer service. He informed me that I don't want antifreeze in the Alde system and told me to drain the water from it and then bypass the system (valve 4 open) before blowing out the lines or putting the antifreeze into the water pipes. We will see if all is well next spring. As a new owner, I find this forum invaluable for its wealth of information especially when it comes to things that not all dealers understand.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:52 AM   #27
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Thank you all for your info on all this. We did use the dealer's AS technician to do the winterizing. I also had a conversation with Mike from AS customer service. He informed me that I don't want antifreeze in the Alde system and told me to drain the water from it and then bypass the system (valve 4 open) before blowing out the lines or putting the antifreeze into the water pipes. We will see if all is well next spring. As a new owner, I find this forum invaluable for its wealth of information especially when it comes to things that not all dealers understand.

Which is why I put the Anti Freeze in the system, including the hot water jacket and then blow it out. Alde US says to put Anti Freeze in. I actually trust Mike at AS more than Alde, but I know my method as outlined works as I did it last year and as stated no leaks, no residual taste etc.

Good Luck.

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Old 10-28-2017, 08:31 AM   #28
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Where is Airstream.inc. on threads like this, and why are they not distributing written protocols to new owners for such critical areas as winterizing new rigs?

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Old 10-28-2017, 09:52 AM   #29
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Where is Airstream.inc. on threads like this, and why are they not distributing written protocols to new owners for such critical areas as winterizing new rigs?

Maggie
Hi

AS does not do support through forum posts. Their policy is pretty clear - give them a call and they are happy to work with you on the phone.

=====

The issue with anit-freeze in the Alde boiler is fairly simple - *if* it's in there *and* you fire the system up, you *might* exceed the max temperature on the anti-freeze. That's not a problem for the Alde. I might be an issue for the anti-freeze. Depending on how the person you are talking to feels about this (unlikely) combination of events .... you get different advice.

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Old 10-28-2017, 03:21 PM   #30
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Where is Airstream.inc. on threads like this, and why are they not distributing written protocols to new owners for such critical areas as winterizing new rigs?

Maggie
As I found out last year and again recently the learning process for Airstream is on a curve as well. In my opinion as one who had the opportunity to be on the Alde side at one company and on the Airstream side of another company - Alde has failed in it's communication and it's training. The Airstream manual only touches on the Alde system and no one "gives out" the Alde manual, we had to find it on line and it as stated is poorly written and at times very confusing. So, some have done the job on our own and now share what we know with others.

As to Uncle Bob's statement about the Alde and RV Anti-Freeze - agree 100%, it's not the Alde it's the Anti-freeze that is an issue or could be an issue at high temperatures and this system can get quite hot. I've had ours up to 169F on both sides, Glycol and Water.

Also to Bob's point, Airstream does not comment on Forums or anyplace else - I am sure the legal department has stipulated as such. They do post here at times and ASK the person having issues to please call them. I have utilized the Customer Service department several times over the past year of owning this Classic and they have been an extremely valuable resource. At first we even worked some issues out together on the phone as the system was brand new to them and again Alde failed in proper training, in my opinion.

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Old 10-29-2017, 12:46 PM   #31
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Update. Helped my neighbor winterize his 2018 Classic 30 RB (Queen): Steps:

1. Drained fresh tank and opened low points (1 located in outside compartment near dump valves; 2 located under coach behind front streetside tire. Opened all faucets at fixtures, including outside shower to allow system to fully vent. Then closed all faucets and low points.

2. Drained Alde Hot Water heater by opening two valves (Flipping up the yellow one, and opening rotational valve on the left of that on the same pipe. This provides a path from the hot water jacket to the drain under the coach. Opened a hot water faucet to eliminate vacuum. Tank drained from hose under the coach. Once drained, there are two more valves to turn to put in 'by-pass' mode according to the Airstream manual, but based on advice here, especially Overlander63's statement that an Alde manual that he has recommends putting RV Antifreeze into the tank--the owner and I chose to empty the tank, then put back in service mode and run antifreeze through it. So we did not turn all the valves into 'bypass' mode. Just opened the two mentioned in order to drain the tank.

3. Blow out as much water as possible using compressed air, opening various faucets one at a time, including the two Alde valves open as one of the steps to blow air through the hot water tank. This continually blew 'spurts' of water out of the drain hose under the coach when air pressure was applied and then removed several times...which seems to confirm that this tank does not fully drain just from gravity. I wouldn't have been comfortable just draining this tank and then bypassing it like I do on my standard Atwood setup on my 2014 FC.

4. Close all low points and valves, installed permanent winterizing kit valve/hose on suction side of water pump. During that process, removed strainer from suction side of pump and made sure it was emptied of water. Activated pump and began pulling antifreeze into the system. With a hot water faucet on to release air pressure, Alde tank began to fill, it took probably 3 gallons + before fluid began sputtering from the kitchen faucet hot side.

5. Continued drawing anti-freeze into system until all hot/cold water locations produced a steady stream of antifreeze with no sputtering, including toilet.

6. Once all water outlets were solid pink streams, kept drawing antifreeze into system and opened each of the three low points one at a time for a few seconds till they ran pink as well.

7. We used 6+ gallons of anti-freeze! For a moment I wondered if a low point was open! This amount was due to my wanting to see a solid stream of antifreeze at each water outlet. The hot sides sputtered much longer than I expected. Could have used much less I'm sure, but I wanted to be very sure that it wasn't a mixture of antifreeze and residual water from the Alde jacket coming out and was just antifreeze.

8. Hit the black tank flush with a shot of compressed air to insure that the backflow valve didn't have any water trapped in it.

9. The Classic has waterless drain traps, which wound up of course with plenty of antifreeze run through them in the whole process so they are safe as well, whether they really need it or not.

I am quite confident their new trailer is safe for the cold winter coming up. They do plan to dry camp in southern Utah this winter staying winterized, and could tow in very cold temps. So they will use portable heater for the coach (not using the Alde system obviously) as they will be at camp sites with 30 amp service.

If anyone thinks I missed anything, please chime in! Thanks!
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Old 10-29-2017, 03:21 PM   #32
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pcskier sounds good to me, nice job and write up.

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Old 10-30-2017, 10:26 AM   #33
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Hi

If you are going to blow the anti-freeze out, there is no real need for a massive amount of the stuff. You need enough to do this or that leg of the process through the blow out. Put another way, you need enough to run this or that faucet to the steady stream point. You can then blow that part out and re-use it.

Do you run the risk of diluting the material? Maybe. If you get the "mix it up" version from Camco, don't use quite as much water as they call for. Also check the minimum temperature rating. Do you live someplace where it will ever get to -50F? I know I do not live someplace like that. Unless you consider wind chill (which you very much should not), there are very few places in the lower 48 states that it gets below -30F.

Keep in mind that when you go to Mr Google to dispute that, his records include a lot of places you are not going to be storing an AS trailer (or likely living in the winter). To save you looking it up, record low here was -22F. That was a single night event with it being much warmer on the adjacent nights (and much warmer during the day). I doubt that a trailer in storage on that night made it much below -10F.

Bob
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:39 AM   #34
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I am in the process of writing an article dealing with both the Alde and Truma systems, including winterizing, but it will not be printed until it's too late this season.
So, the most effective method is to drain the fresh water using the low point drains, close them, then run RV antifreeze through the entire system using the onboard water pump. Blowing out is optional, though it won't hurt anything if you do. The antifreeze will displace the water. There is a bypass for the Alde boiler, but you really want the antifreeze to go through the boiler and displace all the water. Again, there are bypass valves, but don't use them--you want the water out of there, and closing those valves will trap the water in the boiler.
This is from the Alde service manual I am in possession of.
Overlander, where do you get a copy of the Alde service manual? Or can you share a link?
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:11 AM   #35
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Overlander, where do you get a copy of the Alde service manual? Or can you share a link?


http://www.alde.se/usa/support/manua...loads/manuals/
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:34 AM   #36
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Thanks, but I already have these. I thought they meant a service manual which would be a little different.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:36 AM   #37
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Hi

Yes, this *is* a winterizing thread. How about de-winterizing? Or more specifically the point where the two intersect.

When doing the two master drain valves behind the front tire, I was lying there in the street with nothing else to do but watch the water come out Hmmmm.... that's odd .... the first water to come out has some pink/red-ish stuff in it. I wonder what that could be? I didn't slurp it up off the asphalt to taste it I'd bet it was anti freeze. Stupid dealer didn't flush the low points ....

But ... the brass valves are hanging out in the wind. Bumping down the road, they *will* get cold ahead of anything else. Late in the year (like right now) I have not winterized the trailer. Brass does not take well to having water freeze inside it. Outside temperatures do go below freezing from time to time in the fall. Having anti-freeze by the valves *might* be a really smart move.

So, this does get back to winterizing a bit. Is there a good reason to have a little anti freeze down by the valves for next fall? If so, you want to leave a bit above the valves rather than blowing it all out.

Bob
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:57 AM   #38
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I don't see any mention of putting antifreeze in the fresh water tank or am I missing that?
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:11 AM   #39
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I don't see any mention of putting antifreeze in the fresh water tank or am I missing that?
Some (many?) don't like to put anti-freeze in the fresh water tank because it's hard to get it flushed out. That wasn't my experience.

I drained the hot water heater, blew everything out with air, bypassed the heater, and put two gallons of anti-freeze in my fresh water tank, mainly because the water pump is so inaccessible in my 25FC. Then I turned the water pump on and ran every faucet, the outside shower and the commode until pink appeared. I then drained the residual anti-freeze from the fresh water tank.

In the Spring, I flush the fresh water tank and faucets, then add a Clorox mix to sanitize everything, then flush the third time to get the Clorox out. I've found this process does a good job of getting the anti-freeze (and Clorox solution) out of the water system. I could probably get by safely with just blowing out everything, but will continue the above because it's easy and not very time-consuming.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:38 AM   #40
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I read somewhere to top off toilet with (?) vegetable oil or olive oil instead of glycol to protect the toilet flush seal.
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