Much Ado About ALDE

[ajwbarnard]

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j

I hope I can help you out a little. The temperature that is posted on the Alde panel is the room temperature and has nothing to do with temperature happening at the boiler. Trying to increase the room temp while trying to get the water temperature up is counterproductive. The Alde can only do one thing at a time. So, what you want to do is hit the shower icon about 10 minuets or so before you step in. This will shunt the heating away from the radiant heat for the trailer and direct all the heat and energy to the boiler. Since your Alde panel is under the sink I won’t bother you with this, but on my 17 the panel is really easy to watch. When I hit the shower boost icon, I can scroll down a couple of screens and watch to see what the boiler is doing. When the sanitary (I have no idea why they choose to call it that) water temperature hits 151 or so I know the boiler is just about at its maximum temperature ability and it’s shower time. If it’s actually cold outside I will intentionally drop the room temperature down a few degrees so the Radiant heat part of the system won’t come on at all until I am done with the shower. There have been a couple of times when I needed to hit the shower booster more than once. If it is below freezing it does take longer for the hot water to get really hot, if I got busy with something else and didn’t get into the shower right at the peak time I had to hit it again, but most of the time one push of the shower booster worked well.
I hope this helps.

This is all good information, but I guess my question was not clear. I am trying to get my Alde heating system to raise the temperature in the AS above 68 degrees. If the air temperature outside is lower than 68 and I want it warmer than 68 in the trailer, I can not get it above 68. Even if I set the thermostat setting on the Firefly to 85, the Alde heat shuts off at 68 as evidence by no heat in radiant heaters. It works great, albeit slow, getting to and maintaining 68. I am wondering why.

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard

This is all good information, but I guess my question was not clear. I am trying to get my Alde heating system to raise the temperature in the AS above 68 degrees. If the air temperature outside is lower than 68 and I want it warmer than 68 in the trailer, I can not get it above 68. Even if I set the thermostat setting on the Firefly to 85, the Alde heat shuts off at 68 as evidence by no heat in radiant heaters. It works great, albeit slow, getting to and maintaining 68. I am wondering why.

Couple of points on this system. When one pushes the Alde panel "Shower Boost" it turns the hearing aspect of the Alde system off. The boiler directs all it's ability to heating the water on either electric or propane or both.

If you are camping and it's cold the Alde on Electric only can only do so much, the boiler to get the glycol mixture up needs propane as well as the electric. If you have not had both on, or just propane then I would suggest trying that.

Next, on the Alde control panel, in your unit the one under the sink in the menu area there is the ability to change the readings on the inside of the trailer temperature. One can adjust the reading, + or -. I have several stand alone thermometers in our trailer and have adjusted the inside temperature readings on the Alde a number of times to get the trailer where we want it comfort wise and then have that reflected on the Alde panel to more closely match the inside temperature readings on the stand alone thermometers.

If the temperature on the Alde panel will not exceed 68f, and you have sufficient fluid, the pump is circulating properly I'd give the above a shot. I'd also make sure that all the air is out of the system, there are six easily accessible bleed points as outlined several places in this thread and three additional that are difficult to get to so I have not bothered.

Bud

[ajwbarnard]

Originally Posted by paiceman

Couple of points on this system. When one pushes the Alde panel "Shower Boost" it turns the hearing aspect of the Alde system off. The boiler directs all it's ability to heating the water on either electric or propane or both.



If you are camping and it's cold the Alde on Electric only can only do so much, the boiler to get the glycol mixture up needs propane as well as the electric. If you have not had both on, or just propane then I would suggest trying that.



Next, on the Alde control panel, in your unit the one under the sink in the menu area there is the ability to change the readings on the inside of the trailer temperature. One can adjust the reading, + or -. I have several stand alone thermometers in our trailer and have adjusted the inside temperature readings on the Alde a number of times to get the trailer where we want it comfort wise and then have that reflected on the Alde panel to more closely match the inside temperature readings on the stand alone thermometers.



If the temperature on the Alde panel will not exceed 68f, and you have sufficient fluid, the pump is circulating properly I'd give the above a shot. I'd also make sure that all the air is out of the system, there are six easily accessible bleed points as outlined several places in this thread and three additional that are difficult to get to so I have not bothered.



Bud

When it is running, the Alde appears to be working fine. Every part of the trailer is getting sufficient heat. But then at 68 degrees, it “shuts off” and the radiators no longer produce heat as if it reached the desired temperature and is no longer needed. And any attempts on the Firefly to get it to come back on seemed to be ignored. It does not, however, ignore the water heater or shower boost and I have sufficient hot water at my desired temperature. And if is not below 68 in the trailer, I can’t test whether or not it will come back on below 68.

[Sparr]

I would check the Alde panel under settings and see if the automatic nighttime mode (quarter moon icon) is on. If it is set to off.

[kendrick.l.j]

I know it’s a rather big PITA but skimming through the entire thread may be helpful to you. As you said, it’s been a while since you have had a chance to use the AS and since this is a relatively new system to all of us it is easy to forget about one step or so. I can tell you that even in outside temps in 40’s I can get the inside up to 80 if I wanted to. I am mentioning this only to let you know that the Alde is very capable of reaching of much higher than 68. Your unit is slightly different than mine because of the firefly interface but you should be able to manipulate the Alde panel on its own.
The 2 things I would try first have already been mentioned. 1. Make sure you have all timers turned off. (At least until you cab get the system going). 2. Make sure your panel is giving you accurate readings and then you can go into the panel and under the menu function select the little wrench icon, then select the icon that looks like a thermometer, from there you can adjust the setting plus or minus 10 degrees. 3. Make sure you have gas and both electric elements on. Once you get everything running right you can come back later and turn off the propane option off.
Give all that a shot and see what happens. Give the system a couple of hours to see if anything worked and let us know.

[ajwbarnard]

The setting for nighttime sound promising. It certainly is acting as if there is something telling it to shut off at a certain temp. I have used the propane on to get the temperature up more quickly, but I haven't had the need this camping season. I wasn't even expecting the heat to be working the first night and woke up hot because it had warmed the trailer without touching the system. I will get down under the sink again.

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard

The setting for nighttime sound promising. It certainly is acting as if there is something telling it to shut off at a certain temp. I have used the propane on to get the temperature up more quickly, but I haven't had the need this camping season. I wasn't even expecting the heat to be working the first night and woke up hot because it had warmed the trailer without touching the system. I will get down under the sink again.

I've not really looked at a 2018 unit, except at the factory and then I was checking to see the pipe routing on the twins in production. You might have a timer function different from the 2017s, or you might have a faulty temperature sensor, but to shut off, after working fine leads me to believe it's more temperature than it is a time thing. If nothing fixes the problem I'd suggest a call to the factory and press #2. Jon or someone will probably be able to walk you thru some checks to see what is up.

[james.mileur]

Just discovered while working on the trailer in storage, the Alde circ pump runs, with Alde panel off, if the last programmed temp setting is above the ambient temperature. I plugged in the trailer, and heard the gurgling in the tank. Learned something new.

BTW, I listed the trailer for sale on Classified page. Works great, in great shape, just don't need anymore.

[steverino]

Having been in the market for a Classic for nearly a year, I've read with great interest this and other ALDE-related threads. Thanks to all of you pioneers and beta testers who have worked with the factory and dealer network to help them become able to deliver these systems.

We picked up our 2018 Classic 30 Queen last week from the Salt Lake City dealership. During a brief shakedown cruise, we found that the ALDE system is performing very well. I attribute this to a carefully performed pre-delivery inspection, where the service staff performed 3 separate bleed operations, and insured that the FireFly wiring correction was performed.

We're getting 120* sanitary water at the bathroom tap, and sufficient hot water in the shower, provided we let the boost run for 15 minutes prior to jumping in.

The dealership received two nearly identical Classic 30's with build dates in December 2017. Ours has the 3010 boiler, and the ALDE panel underneath the sink. The other, with a higher serial number, apparently had the 3020 boiler and the ALDE panel mounted in an accessible location.

The current edition of the Classic parts book indicates a cutover to the 3020 in December 2017. So these two units apparently straddled the cutover. Based on our experience so far, I have no regrets that we got the earlier version. In fact, I kind of like that the heating function is integrated into Firefly. One less panel to mess with.

It does appear, that Firefly does not provide access to some advanced ALDE features, such as hot water temp indication or evening temperature setback. I suppose I'll have to dink with the panel under the sink if I want to see that.

There's still a lot to learn I'm sure. Although I've read that the shower boost turns off automatically after 30 minutes, that was not my experience so far. Unless my timekeeping was off.

In any case, thanks again to those who have poured blood, sweat and tears into getting this ALDE system working. I am pleasantly surprised how well it is doing now.

[steverino]

Still learning about the ALDE system. I’m finding that if I turn on Shower boost from the main firefly panel, I get good hot water- the ALDE panel under the sink indicates 160 degree sanitary water within 15 minutes. The boost mode shuts off automatically after a total of 30 minutes.

If I turn on shower boost from the bathroom firefly panel, sanitary water temp stays at 120 degrees, same as when shower boost is off.
Thus shower boost, although is indicated to be on, is not truly activated via the bathroom firefly panel.

This is on a 2018 Classic, early December build, with the 3010 ALDE plus Flow, and ALDE panel under the kitchen sink. Firefly version 3.3.

Anyone else seeing this behavior? Looks like a Firefly software bug.

[kendrick.l.j]

Steverino, it is a bug. One of several that Alde and Firefly we’re not able to get fixed permanently. That is why they went back to the original design of the Alde panel by itself and not under firefly control.

[kendrick.l.j]

Steverino, you are correct in your observation that the sanitary water temp should be at or around 160 about 15 minuets after hitting the shower booster and the booster will shut off by itself after 30 minuets. Your Classic should have 9 bleed points and not just three. A hot water temperature reading of 120 is good enough to wash at the kitchen or bathroom sink but won’t be hot enough to work in the shower. Remember, you only have about 2.5 gallons of hot water to work with so it’s all about managing those few gallons.
Some of the 2018 Classic’s worked fine under Firefly control but a majority did not.

[ajwbarnard]

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j

Steverino, it is a bug. One of several that Alde and Firefly we’re not able to get fixed permanently. That is why they went back to the original design of the Alde panel by itself and not under firefly control.

Do you know what JC is doing to remedy the issue? We have some of these Alde/Firefly issues and headed to JC for warranty work in July. Are they moving the Alde panel to a useable location and disabling Firefly control?

[kendrick.l.j]

I am fairly certain that JC will have an update or two for you when you get there in July, I don’t know if they will move the panel from under the sink to a more reasonable place. I do know that the Classics I saw being built back in March had two panels, one firefly and one Alde. The miscommunication between the Firefly and the Alde is between those two suppliers and there is little, if any, that Airstream can do except to separate the two systems. The Firefly panels in the 2017 Classic were never a problem. The Alde system, once understood, is not a problem and is actually a very good product. They just interact with each other very well.

[sbowman]

Thinking out loud and not wanting and/or meaning to offend. Typically 1st year of new product has teething issues that are addressed w/falling years productions, however it appears 2017 may be the most trouble free w/ALDE Fire Fly systems?



I have often wondered why AS it appears does not perfect a new system prior to adding another system change and or mixing systems. Do they not try these systems prior to selling to the public?


From what I have seen and experienced, the dealers are left in the dark to figure out the whys, hows, and adjustments for the buyers. It also appears there are buyers that have more self thought knowledge solving these issues than the MFG. or the dealers.



Not trying to start a war, just seems to me the monies we pay for these AS's one would reasonably expect to get what we pay for. Guess not.


Best regards and safe travels

[kendrick.l.j]

Scott, I completely agree with you. When I first got my 2017 Classic twin, the dealers were pretty much in the dark about the Alde system and it wasn’t just me that was having major problems getting the bugs worked out. This entire thread was started because there was zero support from Airstream to the customers.
Some dealers are doing a fantastic job of getting the Classics prepped for the buyer but certainly not all so the rest of us are the test group.
I feel really bad for the new owners of these Airstreams that don’t know about the forum. A few times I have pulled up Airstream Addicts on FB and way too many are having big problems and don’t know where to turn to for help. I least I had the support of forum members when I got mine.

[BigSxyWhtGuy]

My Alde system stopped running on electric. Still works fine on propane but I’m hooked to shore power and would love to not use propane. Any thoughts before I call JC tomorrow? 2018 classic

Noticed that my propane usage is high right now (ran through about 1/2 tank in 2 weeks). I turned off propane last night and just ran electric and unfortunately the alde didn’t heat the trailer. Turned propane back on this morning and everything is fine and back working. Figured this is electric not working, right?

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by BigSxyWhtGuy

My Alde system stopped running on electric. Still works fine on propane but I’m hooked to shore power and would love to not use propane. Any thoughts before I call JC tomorrow? 2018 classic

Noticed that my propane usage is high right now (ran through about 1/2 tank in 2 weeks). I turned off propane last night and just ran electric and unfortunately the alde didn’t heat the trailer. Turned propane back on this morning and everything is fine and back working. Figured this is electric not working, right?

Outside temp? If cold electric can’t do the job alone, use both. Make sure breakers are all ok. I think the 2018 is wired to a normal 20amp. Was originally a gfi but Alde and AS figured the gif was no necessary

[BigSxyWhtGuy]

Originally Posted by paiceman

Outside temp? If cold electric can’t do the job alone, use both. Make sure breakers are all ok. I think the 2018 is wired to a normal 20amp. Was originally a gfi but Alde and AS figured the gif was no necessary

Outside temp only 50 degrees. Any other breakers I should be checking besides the set under the closet?

[kendrick.l.j]

Hi Big, as I recall you are one of the few 18’s that has not had communication issues between the Alde and the Firefly. Just thinking out loud and wondering if the Alde just isn’t getting the signal from the Firefly that you want to use electric instead of propane. Did you try going under your sink to see what the Alde panel is using? Maybe make adjustments at the Alde panel to see what happens? Like I said, just thinking....I’m sure you have tried this already.