Angry About Smart Control Technology

[turk123]

if you look at the functions it performs, they are basic. Heat, awning and lights. Being computerized, it’s probably either net connections and possibly quite simple. One of the benefits is reducing the amount of wiring throughout.

it actually my be simpler!

[rmkrum]

It’s real hard to get simpler and more reliable than a single pole, single throw rocker switch that positively turns a device on or off when I put my finger on it. No computer, no fancy devices or interface to do it.
Yeah, I’m the “worlds oldest computer geek”, a ham radio operator, and a lover of voice-activated gadgets of all sort at home. But not on the road when I only have simple hand tools to fix anything that might go wrong.
Besides, when I’m out camping, I’m going to look at the view, not fiddle with high tech complications.

[mayco]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Just so I'm straight here..........

You're pissed with the technology that exists in your Airstream......and now you're even more pissed by the fact that you can't remotely monitor the broken technology in your Airstream.

You have serious issues my friend.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

PS This is why I have a 35 year old Airstream.......no technology.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Ooooooooooh Tony! Seriously though, with as much techno "STUFF" they are cramming into the trailers and oh my god the Interstates these days I don't know how owners do it. I can't imagine the time and effort people have to put forth to TRY and learn how all these new and "improved" systems operate......but that's just me. Give me as much manual operations as possible so at least you have a chance at troubleshooting. Good luck!

VIVA my 1982 310 turbo diesel Classic Motorhome! M

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

It’s real hard to get simpler and more reliable than a single pole, single throw rocker switch that positively turns a device on or off when I put my finger on it. No computer, no fancy devices or interface to do it.
Yeah, I’m the “worlds oldest computer geek”, a ham radio operator, and a lover of voice-activated gadgets of all sort at home. But not on the road when I only have simple hand tools to fix anything that might go wrong.
Besides, when I’m out camping, I’m going to look at the view, not fiddle with high tech complications.

Lets be real, at the most, the interior of a new Airstream is going to be less than thirty feet long, who really needs integrated control of everything via smartphone? #JustSayin

(That’s just my take, don’t hate me for it. [emoji4] )

Addendum; last week a lightning hit my truck scale that’s less than 20 feet from my airstream doing about $10,000 damage. Everything in my Airstream still works perfectly..... it’s built very simple, nothing is automatic, very rudimentary.... just simple and reliable.....

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Sometimes very simple tech goes wrong. Take a look at the fridge issues in the Basecamp. It's all "many decades old" tech.

I have no doubt that the system on the 2019's *will* get running eventually. The big questions revolve around just when ( December, March, July ....) and in what configuration. The way it's gone in the past suggests that it will take a while.

Properly done, there's nothing at all wrong with doing it "with smarts". The key word there is "properly". One would think that AS is a bit unique in fielding something and then letting the firmware catch up once it's in the field. They are in no way unique in that respect. Everybody (including the DOD) does it the way AS is doing it.

You also would think that these systems get decided on months and months in advance. That also is not a common thing anymore. Decision processes *can* run right up to the release date .... so they do. The whole "what's going in the 2019" decision may not have been made until late May.

Usually vendor change (which this was) decisions involve an internal fight. People take sides and go around in circles. Meetings go on and on, trying to reach a consensus decision. Trying to get information out of a company while that's going on .... good luck.

So yes, it's a bit of a mess. Welcome to the real world.

Bob

[Al and Missy]

One reason for the technology could be to reduce manufacturing costs. Instead of running several dozen wires from switches to devices, a single buss can be run to all. This necessitates a master control unit and multiple slaves at the devices. Cheaper to install, simpler (for the dealer) to maintain - just check the output from the master and replace the defective slave.

Did Airstream change from Firefly because they wanted to, or because they had to? In my career as an engineer I am familiar with situations where major subcontractors informed us that they were discontinuing a product within a year or two of our incorporating it into a system. Even a contractual obligation can't protect a manufacturer if the supplier goes out of business.

Al

[skyguyscott]

As an old Boy Scout, I can't honestly call doing anything in an Airstream "camping" Mine is a 1969, and even it has a propane stove, a microwave oven, an Air Conditioner, a television (HD, no less!) running water (with a water heater even!) and two independent electrical systems.

So for all the folks that yearn for a simple, uncomplicated, true camping experience without all the complex bells and whistles, let me heartily recommend a tent, a blanket, a backpack, a scout knife, a canteen and a hatchet. Go forth into the untrodden wilderness and camp!

But it seems to me, that if you enjoy the many amenities afforded by your Airstream, you can't begrudge those who would like a few more. The youngin's are all into their smartphones and that is the future of the market. My grandma never saw the need to buy a color TV when her trusty B&W Zenith worked fine for watching "As the World Turns." It's a generational thing. Welcome to being old. Enjoy it. Let the kids get what they want.

I don't have any expectations that AS, which can't even source reliable ammonia fridges, A/V systems, electric window shades, power awnings, etc. will suddenly push out working internet-connected smart technology. We know that, the kids will figure it out.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

One reason for the technology could be to reduce manufacturing costs. Instead of running several dozen wires from switches to devices, a single buss can be run to all. This necessitates a master control unit and multiple slaves at the devices. Cheaper to install, simpler (for the dealer) to maintain - just check the output from the master and replace the defective slave.

Did Airstream change from Firefly because they wanted to, or because they had to? In my career as an engineer I am familiar with situations where major subcontractors informed us that they were discontinuing a product within a year or two of our incorporating it into a system. Even a contractual obligation can't protect a manufacturer if the supplier goes out of business.

Al

Hi

I get the impression from the various posts that this was an AS decision and not something they were forced to do. If I had to bet a bottle of beer, I'd bet it on Firefly not coming through on various commitments to get this and that integrated into their system ( at least not to the degree AS expected).

Cost wise, they will spend a ton of development money re-doing all the integration that was already done on the Firefly. I'd bet they also will have to put up with a bunch of support issues as part of the debug cycle. Not anything you would randomly dive into. AS normally keeps suppliers onboard for quite a while, pretty much for all those reasons.

Bob

[zapper]

Interesting thread. Technology evolution woe's. Electronic applications are changing the way we live at an ever increasing rate. Not all of it good. I had wanted to buy a Classic but the wife liked the interior of the FC better so that's what we bought.

Now that I see this discussion regarding the technology sophistication of the Classic and it's attendant learning curve of the buyer and the manufacturer I am glad we did. Not that our FC didn't have problems, it did, but not to the electronic extent that seems to be happening with the Classic.

Too bad as I tend to like all the whistles and bells. But they must work as advertised and above all must be reliable and have a back-up system in case of failure. (all of which seems to be missing from the newer AS, including ours) Not sure there is a solution to the pain other than keeping what you have and not buying new. A shame really.

[DSteed]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Just so I'm straight here..........



You're pissed with the technology that exists in your Airstream......and now you're even more pissed by the fact that you can't remotely monitor the broken technology in your Airstream.



You have serious issues my friend.



Cheers

Sidekick Tony



PS This is why I have a 35 year old Airstream.......no technology.

Oh boy I am so glad my 2008 doesn’t have any electric blinds and electric awning and electric stabilizers, manual stuff does take a minute to do but:::: it works !

[slowmover]

My Silver Streak is a 1990 model, built late 1989.

The only changes I’d like to have in the thirty years since are a twin-unit ducted AC system, and the Alde heating system.

Those are genuine upgrades. (To it I’ll add LED lighting, especially for the exterior).

The rest are headaches. To echo some others, I dread the day some of my American made appliances and/or other components need replacement.

Things aren’t “better” in this little RV corner we are in. Not in comparison to what came before. A tech overlay (remote and/or overly complex controls) aren’t desirable, much less needed. Reducing reliability and longevity isn’t in the spirit of a lifetime purchase.

It’s enough to keep one up over time so as to depart when desired. That is central. (“. . Lets leave our hut, dear; get out of our rut, dear. Let’s. Get away. From it all . . . .” Listen close to your Uncle Frank, boys, as Billy May is swinging that big orchestra in behind him)

Genuine improvement by AS would be with aircraft honeycomb flooring, aluminum cabinetry and a general weight reduction. (Some 25’s today weigh as much as my 35’. No rational explanation for that). Then, antilock disc brakes. Electronic anti-sway. A Hensley-patent hitch. All standard.

Control from a phone or other is just asking for trouble (“Open the pod doors, Hal!”)

I’ve fixed my share. With more to come. But I don’t have to ask it’s permission.
.

[turk123]

Well, Airstream is keeping up with the times and trying to attract a younger crowd. We welcomed the upgraded Czone system and the internet connection for remote control of certain features.

All the trailer manufacturers are trying to stay up with the latest technology, why would Airstream not follow this thinking? Why fall behind in this area?

My wife and I may go through a bit of pain getting systems to work, but we are willing to accept that as long as Airstream commits to making all this work. Having the right attitude and willingness to work with the company may make the difference for you one day. We are optimistic that Airstream is committed to advance their products and not fall behind. After all, if they stay in the present and not look forward to the future, how will they survive.

You can thank me later for a wonderful new czone electronics system that flawlessly controls your new Classic of the future.

[Daquenzer]

I like technology. But don’t be the first to get it[emoji3]. You will be the guinea pig. Spend lots of time on phone with support.

[turk123]

Yep, I fully agree and I'm willing to be part of the solution.

[Air Apparent]

I don’t find it surprising with these upcoming changes because:

1. Bob Wheeler is now in charge of several RV technology companies. What better place to put this technology.

2. Airstreams are the Prevosts of the trailer world at least for trailer prices. Prevost has been using multiplex wiring and related technology for the last 12 to 15 years. If Airstream is going to charge six figure prices for their trailers, they have to offer something for it over the sob’s other than just aluminum.

[kendrick.l.j]

Turk, you know all of us will be following closely and wishing you the best. I was part of the Alde beta group and it was pretty miserable for the first 4 months with no hot water, initially no heat, in winter, full-timing and absolutely zero support from Airstream or anyone associated with AS. The entire Much ADO Alde thread was a direct result of AS not supporting new systems. They didn’t have any information to give to us, if or when we repeatedly asked for help we were met with blank stares because they didn’t know any more about ALDE than we did. There were a handful of owners that worked like hell to obtain the manuals, troubleshoot, test, tweak, retweak, test again while AS followed along and learned from us. There was one dealer that I know of that actually knew how to set up the ALDE and I didn’t know about them until 3 months into this.
Additionally, there are well know threads on other models that have hit the market since the Alde roll out and unfortunately it appears there were some serious design issues and functionality issues that were not addressed by AS.
I truly admire your attitude and willingness to be the pioneer for the Czone. I hope it all goes amazing well and we hear nothing but wonderful reports. I think it’s awesome that AS is bringing the Classic into the future and will seriously consider selling my ‘17 if it all goes mind Blowingly smooth. I agree that AS is or at least should be the Prevost of TT but Prevost is asking several hundred thousand dollars more that level of glamping/technology/service and even a new Prevost can have lots of issues on delivery to the customer. (Some neighbors bought one last year and it was in the shop for 4-5 months in the first year).
Again, I commend you on your willingness to be among the first of the next generation. I wish you nothing but smooth sailing and a wonderful experience and honestly hope that AS has learned from their past experiences. I hope they will have the answers to your questions and ability to work out the bugs quickly so that you will get to enjoy your Classic fully without delays or numerous trips back to the factory.
Most sincerely,

[paiceman]

Turk123

Having been one of the Alde "Pioneers" I found Airstream factory a resource and they gave it their all to help, but I think Alde failed miserably on their end at first. So, my suggestion before your unit is delivered is find the contact information for the various systems in your trailer and have them handy in case things go bad. In that way you will have support from Airstream factory as well as the manufacturer of the product.

What I did additionally was I found other manufacturers who had been using the Alde system for a while and I called their tech support. One in particular helped me get my unit up and providing sufficient hot water and fabulous heat within 15 minutes.

Looking forward to ready your success with the 2019 Classic.

[smithcreek]

After reading this thread it looks like there is a large market for a line of Airstream trailers with as little tech as possible. I don't mean the least expensive line with the lowest level of amenities, cabinetry, furniture or frills, but a high level series that stays true to the KISS principle. I know it's what I would interested in.

[turk123]

Originally Posted by paiceman

Turk123

Having been one of the Alde "Pioneers" I found Airstream factory a resource and they gave it their all to help, but I think Alde failed miserably on their end at first. So, my suggestion before your unit is delivered is find the contact information for the various systems in your trailer and have them handy in case things go bad. In that way you will have support from Airstream factory as well as the manufacturer of the product.

What I did additionally was I found other manufacturers who had been using the Alde system for a while and I called their tech support. One in particular helped me get my unit up and providing sufficient hot water and fabulous heat within 15 minutes.

Looking forward to ready your success with the 2019 Classic.

That's a good point Bud. I believe the Alde system problems in AS trailers have been resolved. If anything, AS and dealers have much more experience with the system now.

As for the new electronics and Czone, I'm guessing they will be able to 'call" the system for troubleshooting or use me to provide input. Did I tell anyone I was in the commercial computer business for over 47 years? maybe that's why I feel more comfortable with new systems. It's in my realm and I know the pitfalls but can appreciate the benefits.

[turk123]

I did some research and found that the new Alde control software can be incorporated on the 3020 & 3010 system. Please look at my post in "Much to do about Alde" post #757.