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DanB · 01-31-2016, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switz

Are we surprised at the level of QC in the Pendleton? It comes down the same production lines as all the other models. The same new 200 workers are working on this model, too. The name of the game is attention to detail.

Someone paying $10K over list for the typically problematic Airstream is nuts in my opinion. A cabinet built like that should never have been installed let alone ship from the factory.

So, what do you think about Airstream quality?!!

Oh wait,let me check all your posts........

SteveSueMac · 01-31-2016, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkottum

A most disturbing element of the interior. Surely the designer intended this laminate wood grain pattern be in alignment, I'm guessing a failure on the production line.

...snip...

Doug - if you check out their PDF brochure, the laminate isn't aligned in those interior pics either. Entirely possible the "randomness" is an intentional design element - one that will/won't resonate with folks for many reasons - but based on the sales brochure, I don't think you can attribute this to a failure on the line.

switz · 01-31-2016, 09:07 AM

Our first Airstream was a 2013 25FB International Serenity that came down the line in June of 2012 when production was under 25 units per week. We had no build issues with that trailer. Local dealer created issues were beyond belief. We also discovered the true nature of the cross frame front bed where I hit man head on the roof locker every time I setup in the bed. We were also less than tickled with the dinette arrangement, comfort and the stiff neck I got having my head turned trying to watch the television.

We decided to change to a different floor plan and in May of 2013 initially ordered a 2014 27FB Classic to be built the following January. Upon reflection, we decided that the mechanically identical dinette area was still an issue and switched the order to a 2014 31' Classic model 30 for the just the $3,012 difference in the list price.

If I had not been at the factory the entire Classic build time, lack of dealer/salesman follow through on the approved change order (which included an aluminum backslash in the bathroom and the flooring from the International Serenity rather than the wood look vinyl) would have had them eat that unit to build one to the specifications I was charged for and approved by the VP of Production. So the existing interior walls and cabinets had to be removed to replace the flooring with the correct version. Since the employees were not very happy to have to redo their work because of a failure to have the change order implemented in the shop floor work order, the job was poorly done. Other QC issues included crossed duct work under the kitchen cabinet which I caught on film as the cabinet came in and lots of fitment issues to numerous to list again. The build goal in January 2014 was just over 40 units per week.

People were tripping all over each other in the rush to get things done with some chap with a stop watch timing everything.

When the 2015 23D International Serenity came down the line in the last week of September 2014, they were trying to crank out 51+ units per week.

The PDI was a joke in terms of the errors I found in the Classic. The cabinetry issues were too signifiant to trust the local dealer to repair properly. Walls and doors were damaged in shipment.

The 23D PDI had to be done at the lunch room table as no one saw the wad of plastic that was not fully removed from the curb side rear piece of interior aluminum skin beside the bed. At the factory someone put the mattress against this wad and the dealership put the bed spread on the bed covering up the plastic. To bad no one noticed the "AIRSTREAM" letters were NOT installed on the rear of the trailer or the large crack in the wall beside the shower that was not assembled properly. The list goes on. The dealer started a warranty claim to fix a couple of the simple issues that were their responsibility to fix during the PDI, not as a warranty claim.

Many folks on here say there is very poor quality in the RV industry. A large part of that non-caring attitude is the fact that the “lemon laws” for vehicles do not apply to anything made in the RV industry. Thus there is no negative incentive to do the job correctly the first time.

Airstream marketing claims they are a premium product. That is compared to what standard? The rest of the RV industry? It is a very very low bar. They could only legitimately make that claim if zero defects was the norm on every unit coming off of the line, not just on maybe one or two units per month.

We have spent a lot of time and money to correct the manufacturing defects, replace breaking plastic parts with brass ones and basically replacing all the electric outlets for safety reasons in both the 2014 Classic and the 2015 23D. We installed Maxim skylights because Airstream was unwilling to work a deal for top quality skylights without the plastic frame that the workers crack by over tightening the attachment screws. We have already had to replace the factory flooring in both units.

Our modifications list to correct or improve our units are several pages long. We have them nearly to the condition they should have been in when I took delivery.

dkottum · 01-31-2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Doug - if you check out their PDF brochure, the laminate isn't aligned in those interior pics either. Entirely possible the "randomness" is an intentional design element - one that will/won't resonate with folks for many reasons - but based on the sales brochure, I don't think you can attribute this to a failure on the line.

It is unlikely the "randomness" of the laminate wood grain pattern is intentional. No designer or cabinet maker worth their salt would do this as a good or clever thing; wood grain in this bold a pattern must be aligned or the eye is drawn to the error rather than seeing the whole it as a pleasant composition.

My first impression when seeing the brochure was the drawers were simply placed in the wrong position, could be moved around to straighten things up. But no, someone at Airstream is not paying any attention to it.

Whether this is a production decision to expedite the build, or simply oversight during cabinet assembly, it's not a good way to assemble cabinets. In our Flying Cloud the wood pattern is so neutral you don't notice the grain alignment at all; in the Pendleton it is jolting.

DanB · 01-31-2016, 10:28 AM

switz, I was being sarcastic.

I'm reasonably sure everyone knows the history of your experience. I'm sorry you are having issues.

Piggy Bank · 01-31-2016, 10:31 AM

I feel that it indicates an overall lack of attention to detail. This is something taught in basic junior high home ec and shop.

Cabinetry cut from solid laminate will have no pattern to be of concern. Hence that is acceptable in a Sport. It leads to little waste in designing how to layout the items when cutting from a sheet of product.

Use of a patterned material (whether in a fabric for sewing upholstery, or in wood grain for cabinetry) requires a careful study of piece placement so that the finished look is pleasing to the eye and conveys careful thought to the geometry and construction of the item. This by necessity will result in more scrap/waste that using a solid material with no pattern. But the opportunity to create a more artistic/higher level of design and the zen/beauty of the creation by using proper construction is the desired higher level of quality of thought and artistry of creation.

But to fail to do this correctly leads to a visually jarring output, as you eye cannot rest; it is continually trying to fix the error and solve the visual riddle. Better do it right or not do it at all. Claiming that nature is random is not an excuse to not have human-made use of nature be done in a way that integrates planning and skill with nature.

xrvr · 01-31-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Doug - if you check out their PDF brochure, the laminate isn't aligned in those interior pics either. Entirely possible the "randomness" is an intentional design element - one that will/won't resonate with folks for many reasons - but based on the sales brochure, I don't think you can attribute this to a failure on the line.

That laminate not lining up is a friggin joke. Ive been one to defend AS, but there is no excuse for this. Ive done upholstery work and only the slipshod shops release work like that. For that kind of exclusivity and price there is no way this should be released to the public for sale or viewing. Spend more time and use more laminate and produce something to be proud of, not embarrassed by.

DPRoberts · 01-31-2016, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piggy Bank

I feel that it indicates an overall lack of attention to detail. This is something taught in basic junior high home ec and shop.

The majority of schools in America no longer teach home ec or shop.

I'm sure that many Airstream employees have the necessary skills to build fantastic trailers, if only they were given the time and materials to do so. However, it's very likely that many of the newer empolyees - especially the younger ones - have little to no background in the required skills. While I'm sure Airstream does on-the-job training, the starting point in basic construction skills for many employees is probably a lot lower than it used to be.

DanB · 01-31-2016, 11:29 AM

My understanding is the majority of cabinetry and counter tops are subbed out. So its more of accepting lowest/best bid per spec.

OTRA15 · 01-31-2016, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB

My understanding is the majority of cabinetry and counter tops are subbed out. So its more of accepting lowest/best bid per spec.

It would be interesting to see if the specs include aligning the wood planks/grain in the wood cabinet fronts. Ditto to previous comments -- the mismatched boards caught my eye right away as an obvious mistake and/or lack of quality.

The photos on the AS site show similarly mismatched cabinet fronts under the galley sink [scroll through the Design photos -- 4/5 shows this]:

http://www.airstream.com/pendleton/design/

so presumably the cabinet front "look" is intentional . . .

Fail!

xrvr · 01-31-2016, 11:57 AM

Interesting how the imperfections can almost be a plus. Some would look at them and think it just made the trsiler more exclusive. I bought a new Buell motorcycle in pearl white. The bubbles in the paint made it even neater to own, great conversation piece and never took away any of its value. Maybe the flaws on this trailer will make it even more desireable to some being that it is a limited production model. With the Buell, people would look for the imperfections and smile as they found them.. Kind of strange.

TheCabin · 01-31-2016, 12:05 PM

Is the Pendleton an in-house design effort by AS?

CDONA · 01-31-2016, 12:27 PM

During my time employed in the rv/mobile business back in the early 70's. The cab shops had mostly older skilled cab makers that had to cheapen up their skills, from dovetailed joints to staples, glue, and particle board. For a custom job using a patterned laminate the senior guy would do it himself, production would allow an earlier start on that project to allow for the need to meet on time on the production line, before sidewalls closed off access.
Sales has to talk about customers requests with the designer, designer has to get with purchasing for the materials to be on hand for production. Production should give the separate depts (cab shop) a heads up a week or two out about what is coming up to allow for the extra time for custom. Then cab shop back to the designer for materials update, to purchasing, to production.
Yes, I agree, as a up scale product, I expect the production mgr had to be reamed by the designer. If not, "designer" has to be more than a office title on a door.

SteveSueMac · 01-31-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkottum

It is unlikely the "randomness" of the laminate wood grain pattern is intentional. No designer or cabinet maker worth their salt would do this as a good or clever thing; wood grain in this bold a pattern must be aligned or the eye is drawn to the error rather than seeing the whole it as a pleasant composition.

My first impression when seeing the brochure was the drawers were simply placed in the wrong position, could be moved around to straighten things up. But no, someone at Airstream is not paying any attention to it.

Whether this is a production decision to expedite the build, or simply oversight during cabinet assembly, it's not a good way to assemble cabinets. In our Flying Cloud the wood pattern is so neutral you don't notice the grain alignment at all; in the Pendleton it is jolting.

You don't like the looks of it - that's clear and fine with me - I just think if they DIDN'T want it that way, they certainly wouldn't have used it in their sales materials - and as such, I think disparaging production is - in this instance - a mistake.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree until/unless we can hear from someone who knows the actual design.

SteveSueMac · 01-31-2016, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avionstream

That laminate not lining up is a friggin joke. Ive been one to defend AS, but there is no excuse for this. Ive done upholstery work and only the slipshod shops release work like that. For that kind of exclusivity and price there is no way this should be released to the public for sale or viewing. Spend more time and use more laminate and produce something to be proud of, not embarrassed by.

Well I can see this is a visceral topic! 😂

Look - I'm really not defending anything here. I'm just reacting to the assumption of shoddy workmanship. I think it's entirely possible this is the exact design as intended. Love it or hate it - it seems intentional - though I confess - I have no inside info here and am just interpreting what I see - as you and Doug are doing.

Does anyone know how to contact someone who would actually know the design intention?

SeaLevel · 01-31-2016, 05:42 PM

I'm not a big fan of the overall Pendleton design, but I personally think it would look worse if the cabinet fronts looked like they were all made of one large sheet. That would make it look almost plastic. Having each separate piece - drawer, door, etc., standout separately is how I think it should look. Maybe it's just because I am used to that look with the wood floors in our house.

dkottum · 01-31-2016, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB

My understanding is the majority of cabinetry and counter tops are subbed out. So its more of accepting lowest/best bid per spec.

During our visit a couple of years ago Jackson Center was cutting and assembling all of the laminate cabinets in-house. The solid wood Classic cabinets were farmed out.

Zybane · 01-31-2016, 07:56 PM

I think the grain not lining up was intentional. This is to give the look of real/random wood. I think Airstream believes that if everything line up too perfect, it would look too fake.

dkottum · 01-31-2016, 08:34 PM

To each their own.

Design detail is something I look for everywhere in our environment, can't help it. Cars, houses, gardens, everything we do is done with an eye toward aesthetics. It's the reason we have an Airstream.

Rustic can be handsome, crude cannot. What we have here is a rustic appearing material crudely assembled. Random in this case is better described as carelessness.