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Old 03-23-2011, 12:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dwightdi View Post
In 2003 Vintage was only charging $10 due for full membership. I can not remember which year we changed the dues to $20.

I don't remember exactly when, but I think it was around 2004 as our web site costs were very high at that time. Might have been a year or two sooner but I can't tell from my check book since I sometimes paid 2 years at a time.
I am sure that has been a factor in the membership decline.
If I were a non wbcci member I doubt that I would belong because some activities would not be open to me.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:04 PM   #30
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I think the WBCCI membership is the fly in the ointment with the falling VAC membership numbers. I am one of those who would be a member is that requirement was removed. $20 is chump change. Two adults and a child at Mc Donald's is more. A case of Corona is more. The amount of Nuvite required to polish trailer is more.

It is not the dues.

It is the Mother Club.

I strongly suspect Leo realizes that also, but is trying to be diplomatic. I also suspect he is trying to verify his numbers before he states fact. Not speaking for Leo, just speculating.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:32 PM   #31
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I agree, Frank.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:31 PM   #32
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Well, heck - I could have confirmed that - and have right here on these forums many times before. The number of VAC members (not subscribers) is indeed dropping and it is no secret that many of them are not renewing because they do not want to renew in WBCCI. I nave been told numerous times by resigning members who are saying this. The problem for the VAC is obviously that the membership pool is dropping. And that decrease in numbers does impact the VAC and the volunteers who continue to run it, including myself.

Now, many of those who resign do enjoy getting the Vintage Advantage newsletter, so they sign on as a subscriber to the newsletter. It gets them the newsletter, and not much else. It gets the club funds to keep printing the newsletter, but that could be offset by a drop in voluntarism by the members. Its is a vicious cycle in a manner of speaking.

Now, I could go through the last few years to see what the numbers are, but is that really necessary? I don't think so. I think that we all know what the impact is. Having an exact quantitative measurement of the VACs membership levels isn't going to really show what isn't already known.

I will say this. I believe that the WBCCIs survival is within the hands of the membership of the club. We are at a turning point potentially here. Either changes will help or they will not. I for one continue to commit myself to the change - become the change you want to see as they say. I do this despite my often vociferous misgivings about the direction the club is taking. I do believe that IF WBCCI is to survive, it must be at the hands of those who will step up and take on some sort of role in the club, no matter how big or small. I don't care what excuses are given not to do it - it must be done. The WBCCI as well as it's intraclubs (the VAC included) is seeing a wholesale disengagement by its membership. The leadership can work to turn that around and I think it is going to happen by necessity. They can turn that around by opening the doors to volunteer efforts within the club. THAT is the change I hope to see come about shortly - hopefully with the C & B rewrite that is. With that statement said, please keep the flames to yourself, I do not want to debate it - let this dreamer dream.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:53 PM   #33
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VAC Membership Renewal

I'm good for another year.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:58 PM   #34
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I can tell you why I left the VAC and it was not because of the WBCCI - and before I get into this, please understand that I don't want to see this thread become a bashing session - I'm just stating my view - I have and will continue to be a strong supporter of the WBCCI because going away is not the answer - this is a club with lots of traditions and history - it took us a long time to get where we are and it will take a long time to change it - and what will create change is we all hang in there and do what we can to make it better - one step at a time - if I asked 10 people what they would like to see what the WBCCI should look like, I would get 10 different answers - so the WBCCI will never please everyone.... the WBCCI is us and we have to make it better.

VAC - the reason I dropped out for a while (I'm back in it now) is because I felt the VAC had become very stale - there was nothing going on and really did not see a reason to belong - I was there way back in the begginning when we had a simple newsy newsletter of vintage interest - then we got slicker and slicker with the newsletters and I suspect the complexity made the newsletters less frequent and so the communication among all members was less frequent and so thats why the VAC lost membership.

I also think - or it seemed - that the leadership - of the VAC lost interest and so the whole thing wained...

I think to regain membership, I would go back to a simple more frequent chatty newsletter, reduction in dues and more frequent rallies of interest to the vintage folks.

The vintage folks are still there - and many are WBCCI members - and there is great interest as we see with the Vintage Restoration Rally that we do each year.

I don't disagree that the WBCCI is part of the problem, but I do think there is a lot more to it.

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Old 03-23-2011, 10:38 PM   #35
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I am replying to all reading the thread. But it is primarily you are asking and we have worked together so much in the past so yes I am answering you I guess.

Yes, really, I do have a vested interest - in seeing the VAC thrive, nothing less. That is not a bad thing - it shows our dedication towards what we believe in. You should respect that, no? I committed to that when I agreed to being the 3rd VP - it was going to be a multi year commitment, come hell or high water. You already know that I have contributed to tons of hours in the web site, membership management, etc.... You know both Kimber and I and what we have done for the VAC. We would not be doing this if we did not believe in it - period.
Our interest is vested - we love the VAC and what it stands for. Anybody who know us knows this to be true.
We both know by experience what the membership wants and what it is experiencing. I have been involved in the membership of the club since practically the first day we joined.

What exactly are you looking for, Leo? Numbers? OK - tell me exactly what you want and I will produce a spreadsheet complete with graphs and the whole 9 yards based on the data I have archived for the last 5 years or so.
Whatever I produce, it still will not change the fact nor magnitude of the numbers the VAC has as membership. In fact, the numbers will be artificially low now as people are still renewing daily - as I said we once again got a late start in getting the word out. The best results I can give you will be flawed. But quite frankly, I will be the best person right now to describe the status of membership because i manage the online renewals and monitor the traditional renewals as a part of my job.
So - what exactly do you want to know.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
I honestly can't tell if you were replying to me Tim. You definitely have a vested interest in the VAC so I guess I can understand your not wanting to reveal current and past membership numbers. It's okay -- no big deal...

Yet maybe there is somebody else out there that can answer these questions?

Does anyone know what the current VAC membership totals are?

Does anyone have any idea what the yearly totals have been for say the last 5 or 6 years?

In this respect I'm really curious about what has gone on here. I've never had any indication that VAC numbers were anything less than 750 or so members. Maybe the numbers in my head were wrong -- maybe they're from 2005 -- I simply don't know. If they are in the ~400 range it simply means that the general population of the VAC are more dispersed with fewer and fewer buddies living near each other. Bigger and bigger distances to travel in order to hold group functions. All of that likely makes things tougher and tougher -- I do understand all of that.

Oh and I absolutely agree with Tim -- what the mothership does directly affects the VAC. Any and all subsections of the WBCCI, Intraclubs, Units and MALs - what they do affects them all. I would be surprised if any of these three could beat the EC7 trend long term, especially with the increasing burdens they place on every individual member, regardless of their affiliation within the club.

I guess maybe what I'm ultimately curious about is are there more vintage Airstreams on the road today or is the majority non-vintage? I don't think we can get that answer here. A good indication might be if Andy and crew could generate stats on what people claim that they own? That might actually have some value...

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Old 03-24-2011, 09:18 AM   #36
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From his post it appears Leo would like to know this. And now I guess we are all curious. Many have long followed the membership stats offered up each year by streamer23 and his tracking totals
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...als-60970.html
but breaking it down to the intraclub level is also very interesting to see.

Great question Leo, I wonder if there are more newer and current Airstreams than "non-new" on the road now. (hate the designation non-vintage it sounds like a negative doesn't it? How about pro-modern? ) We all do have a vintage regardless of our skin.

Quote:
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Does anyone know what the current VAC membership totals are?

Does anyone have any idea what the yearly totals have been for say the last 5 or 6 years?
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #37
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Ahem! We minorities(?) prefer not to be referred to from your particular perspective as primarily a non-anything as in the term non-Vintage, but as a pro modern. Thank you very much. Just a little sensitivity training and new correctness and we promise not to call you old salvage.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:43 AM   #38
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OK - I can give you that - but for this year, I cannot really because as I said before, we are still doing renewals. See, the VAC, has been taking a more lackadaisical approach towards renewals - that has not been on purpose, but rather a function of just when we get it done. And as I said this year as in the last few years, we started late, so the numbers will look bad for this year, yes you will see a 400 number.
If you are using that 400 number to indicate a precipitous decline in membership in the VAC, you would be misleading people and it is that I do not want to happen. Know what I mean???
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:07 PM   #39
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The number, please!

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OK - I can give you that - but for this year, I cannot really because as I said before, we are still doing renewals.
Tim,

I'm not intending to be critical of you, I'm really not. I know that in the last few years nobody has done more than you and Kimber to make VAC a success. That said, your continual circumlocutory answers to Leo in this thread come across as evasive and defensive. I cringe to read them.

Why don't you just tell us what the VAC membership stands at today and be done with it. Yes, we know renewals are still coming in, but seems like you ought to be able to give us a number--plus or minus 20 or 30 members whose renewals may be in the mail--today. Even the WBCCI, obsessed with secrecy as it seems to be, publishes that information.

Absent that, the impression I get is that Leo's rumored number of 400 is probably about right--which is sad.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:18 PM   #40
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OK, here is what I have for membership numbers:
Year - Members
May, 2006 - 707
June, 2007 - 729
April, 2008 - 678
June, 2009 - 622
June, 2010 - 544
March, 2011 - 247

Now, the March numbers for this year are not current - I do not have the current database and even if I did, I would have to include those who have renewed online, that would take several hours to check and I dont have the time for that right now. But I expect that the Numbers is closer to about 450 at this time total renewed. Tha is roughly on par with what it has been this time the last several years.

This listing also does not include that I still have some 200 postcards to mail out - I ran out and had to have them reprinted. These numbers also do not show the effects of having people join & renew online - they have different expiration dates than those who renew strictly the traditional way. I have had to mail out at least 350 postcards each and every single year I have been active in the club in an official capacity.

These numbers DO show the depth of disengagement I believe is happening in the VAC. Namely, in this case, that of the region leaders working to contact the members of the VAC who have not renewed. Currently, to the best of my knowledge, only one region leader is contacting the expired members and asking them to renew. All of the region leaders have been provided with a list of the members in their area who have not renewed. Only one had been in contact with me to report how things are going - only one. In the past we have had greater involvement from the region leaders. Also, at this time we are actively looking for new region leaders but none has stepped up to fill the vacancies.

Lastly, I will say that the VAC leadership is actively addressing all of these issues. But in general, while you are all looking for some quantitative representation of how screwed up the WBCCI is by showing how poorly the VAC is doing, I believe that will still be a misrepresentation of the truth. because these numbers do not represent the true number of renewals the VAC has.

Nuvi - Yea, I am being defensive but I have not been circuitous in my answers, I did indicate that I had to put the numbers together, didn't I? All I needed to know is how Leo wanted it represented... so please don't try to spin this as being evasive - I find that antagonistic and manipulative. I cringe to read it. I am defensive, because I already know where this is going and how it will get there.

For these numbers, I see that they are going to be used to misrepresent or exaggerate the state of WBCCI, something even I would not attempt to do. While there is truth in the numbers dropping as WBCCI's own numbers drop, the amount of drop and the reasons will be exaggerated and not attributed to all of the true reasons the numbers are down. All of the factors will not be taken in and weighed. The true facts for VAC's numbers will be mis-attributed in total to WBCCIs fate. And when I see that happening, I will reference everybody right back to this post, right to where I made the prediction that it would happen. I will remind people that I believe that this is not an indication in total of how WBCCI is doing, but rather how the VAC is managing itself. More than anything else, it is an internal problem, not an external one.

OK - you have the numbers...
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:19 PM   #41
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Thanks Tim. between 2009 and 2010 does the VAC track the reasons given for not renewing as headquarters does for following up general membership non renewals? Is aging out a problem of frequency or perhaps units age out or are sold as a known problem of frequency? Can you give us any indication so that speculation does not mislead people in presumption? I would think since you did mention specifically that there have been those that say they would be VAC members if not for the International level of organization that it might be possible that some members may have also decided against renewing for that reason. There was quite a large drop between 2009 and 2010, perhaps more than previous percentages of decline. Is the International rally attendance commemsurate with VAC membership to a large extent?
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:40 PM   #42
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Carol,

I have already given the reasons - the VAC is experiencing a drop because of WBCCI, that is well known and a testament by some who are not renewing. However, at this time, in my opinion, the greatest reason for the non-renewals is because of a general disengagement of the leadership, myself included, to follow through in a timely maner to get people to renew.
See, in most cases, people will not renew unless they are asked to renew. I have had people request that we send them a yearly invoice for membership.... Really?!?
So, to combat that we post notices in the VA newsletter (largely ignored), send email messages (we have between 35 - 50% open rate on the messages we send out) and lastly the dreaded "Your Membership Has expired" postcard. That postcard gets the best response by far. But still, wrangling members is like wrangling cats - it ain't easy.
We do not directly track the reasons members do not renew, a lot of the time we get notice, they just do not renew. For the members who would join, but do not not because of WBCCI, we always encourage them o become a subscriber to the VA.
OK - for the drop between 2009 and 2010, this is due to the fact that we transitioned from a manual system of membership management to a dual system that allows for online renewals. Because The membership coordinator and I did not properly communicate I believe that number to be flase. A lot of members were actually renewed on the site, but not on his list. Lee and I have been trying to find a way to improve the coordination between us. Anyway, because of the amount of work it took to build the online system, we did not pay enough attention to renewals. Consequently, renewals languished for a long time - much longer than we wanted. Bottom line, I believe we made up for it later. so, I do not believe that drop was as bad as indicated.....See why I was worried about sending out the numbers???
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