Should the VAC leave the WBCCI??

[63air]

I'd join the VAC in a minute if it left the WBCCI.

[Air Apparent]

I've been following this thread and I think I am missing something. If VAC has only about 300 to 400 members as indicated on another thread then it seems to me that the VAC isn't much of a factor. The wbcci will probably lose another 800 to 1,000 members this year ignoring VAC. The VAC is becoming irrelevant just like the wbcci.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I personally find this very relevant

Tim is doing the best he can with a very difficult job. I have to commend him, for he is a third president and is addressing this issue in a straight forward manor. Most presidents in the WB will not even comment. You do not hear the president of vice president of the VAC discussing this topic. Tim takes everything he does with great seriousness and dedication. He is an excellent leader in my view.

[cooperhawk]

I quit the WBCCI several years ago because of the contentious attitude of several members the constant politicking and bickering. Who the H--- needs it? It now sounds like the same people are running the VAC.

I have joined the TAC and so far am finding a much more relaxed attitude.

[mwells4654]

I don't see the object of the questions.

If you answer the first question you would have to currently be a member of the WBCCI and the VAC. If you said you would leave you would probably be branded a trouble maker (IMHO) by either the VAC or the WBCCI so I could forsee no one answering that question.

The second question will probably be answered by ex-VAC/WBCCI members that left for one reason or the other and would do/say most anything that might cause problems in the WBCCI. I could not answer is honestly since I have never been part of either. I could only give a non-informed opinion of something I know nothing about.

So, it comes down to the last question. Would I join the VAC if it were not part of the WBCCI? Probably not - I am not much of a club joiner. I have thought of joining the WBCCI just so I could better understand what everyone talks about when they beatup on the WBCCI. But then I would not ever fully understand the problem since I would not have been a member for years.

With most clubs come rules and with most rules there are those that want/need them and those that want to change them even if it means destroying the club. My goal is to have fun and I have fun where ever I go. I do not need a club for that. A few friends that like to have fun and have an Airstream would be good but it is not a necessity.

I like this forum and it is very helpful in my repairing my Overlander and making it something I am very proud of. It is not finished yet but hopefully by the end of the year. IMHO the questions either are worded wrong or they are geared towared making dissention in the ranks. Buttercup - I applaud you for your direct answers but now let it go. We are now on page 4 and have 7 answers to the three questions.

Sorry for making my post so long. Normally I am short and to the point but sometines I just have to put in my two cents worth.

[Ken J]

Nuvite - the reason I say the VAC cannot break away is because it could not be called the VAC - it would have to be called something without the name Airstream - so as I see the whole discussion of breaking off the VAC is a non subject.

62 - I'm well versed in what it takes to form a new 501(c)(7) organization - you are correct about $1600 would do it - and insurance is not impossible - so I don't mean to say it can't be done - the VAC is able to take advantage of some economy of scale - thats for all to decide if its worth it.

For me, I started a new unit of the WBCCI - its call the Four Corners Unit - I wanted to stay involved in Airstreaming, but did not want the personal liability of doing rallies - it has been highly successful unit - and folks are joining because we have some great events - so since I see this be so successful, I don't see why the VAC could not be successful IF as Tim says, they deliver the product. Price of entry really does not matter if there is a reason to join. The VAC needs to regroup - and I really SUPPORT them for that - and it will be a growing entity again.

I have to admit, similar to the old WBCCI, I have a place in my heart for the VAC because I've been involved pretty much since the beginning - I saw what is was and I really believe it could be that again...

Ken J.

[newroswell]

Originally Posted by Ken J

I have to admit, similar to the old WBCCI, I have a place in my heart for the VAC because I've been involved pretty much since the beginning - I saw what is was and I really believe it could be that again...

Ken, I think we're all rooting for the WBCCI & VAC. As easy as it is to write off the loud critics as wanting a painful death to the club, I think there are very few that want that. The non keep following these WBCCI threads because they want to see change for the better. They want to (re)join. But it appears the club will continue to bleed off members and scale down until it's broke. When the money's gone, the only leaders left will be people like Tim that really care about the club. They will then be able to start restoring a very valuable Airstream asset, the club itself. In the meantime, the rest of us will not be funding the next around of shenanigans.

[Ken J]

I know, I can't argue with that - - - - I would hope there are enough of us that do remain in the club to set the example. I my case I run three rallies per year and just do the best I can to give the best experience I can to generate goodwill towards the whole mess.

Ken J.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Ken J

Nuvite - the reason I say the VAC cannot break away is because it could not be called the VAC - it would have to be called something without the name Airstream - so as I see the whole discussion of breaking off the VAC is a non subject.

I don't believe that's true. "Airstream" is a trademark of Airstream, Inc., not WBCCI.

I'm sure we all remember a few years ago when Airstream, Inc. became very protective of their trademark. For example they forced Airstream Forums to change their domain name from Airstreamforums to Airforums and Airstream Dreams to change their name to Vintage Trailer Supply.

It was about that time that VAC obtained approval for their flag with the words Vintage Airstream Club and Airstream's own symbol of an Airstream being towed by a guy on a bicycle. Airstream, Inc. was OK with that--it was WBCCI that threw a ring-tailed fit over the fact that VAC had negotiated directly with Airstream, Inc. rather than going up the WBCCI Chain of Command with the proper salutes and genuflections.

Since that time Airstream seems to have eased up on others use of the word "Airstream", as evidenced by several web sites with URLs incorporating "Airstream", including one run by a business with a reputation so bad that a link to it will be immediately deleted from Airforums. (As I learned accidentally before I knew better.)

Now, I don't disagree with you that VAC splitting from WBCCI is a non-issue, but for a different reason. The current VAC leadership, as evidenced by its representative on this forum, has decreed that it's not going to happen. And, VAC appears to have fully assimilated the WBCCI leadership paradigm, which is, "My way or the highway."

Ain't no big thang--it's their club. They can do whatever they want with it.
.

[Ken J]

I understand that - I would doubt that Airstream Inc would let them keep the name - the use of the name has been granted to the WBCCI - but then no one knows until they get the friendly attorney letter. I would think WBCCI would have something to say about it also -

Ken J.

Ken J.

[rideair]

Leo,

Since I'm someone that's always trying to make things better, I look for different ways to skin the cat. So you are very much correct in what I was "trying" to do. Based on what I've seen so far, yes there are a few that "might" leave if the VAC was not part of the WBCCI, but, there and been a few more that would join thus giving you a net +++ in your numbers and then some that wouldn't care so not to effect the numbers either way.

Again, not trying to start a rumor, not saying the VAC should stay or go, just looking for info.

I look for this to be a great chance to grow the club both the VAC and the WBCCI. If I were allowed to do an idea I have, I think it would grow both the VAC today and the WBCCI over time.

The idea is very simple.

Have the VAC go off as it's own club with "rally" only ties back to the WBCCI.

This would allow those that need to feel the love and heritage from the WBCCI yet get out from the rules and dark sky's of the WBCCI. It allows the VAC to run the club as they see fit, yet parade into the International Rally as we do today. WBCCI folks would have the right to come to VAC rallies as they do today and VAC members could attend WBCCI as we today as well. This give cross breading of both clubs and giving each the chance to show why you should join both if you wish.

Not a real hard one to do, best of both worlds and a win/win for all.

[wkerfoot]

Well, we have the TAC separate from the WBCCI. Why doesn't someone start a vintage oriented Airstream club separate from the WBCCI? That would solve all of the problems. Those that want WBCCI can join the VAC and those who don't want the WBCCI can join the new club and those who just want to support vintage Airstreams can join both or neither.

Bill

[Coloradobus]

Leo, That is wholly unfair to mark the VAC leadership as marching in lock-step with the 3 number crew. DOOOOOOO you really want subsequent VAC Presidents to be bombasted and harpooned, and publicly humilated by some diminutive EC-7 autocrat like the one who tore into Shari in Perry in 2007.??? HMMM HMMM. NO one, and I mean no one needs that unfair harrassement of any EC-7, or EC-7 wanna-be!!. Come on, let's end this thread on a helpful good note. I will not participate here any longer. Its too toxic.

[wheel interested]

I can't tell your tone from the printed page. Are you in earnest or are you speaking with sarcasm?

I am certain no one wants anyone to be berated or taken down, but has it not occurred to you all that that is not the fault of those who would anger the abusers but the direct culpability of the leadership that would break with its very own code of ethics to be malevolent and punitive and wrathful against a fellow member?

Rather than stifle free expression and opinion for fear (or healthy respect) of the consequences and the possibility of poor judgment and behavior being repeated by an officer of the board perpetrated against another officer of the club, I suggest it be said that that behavior is both reprehensible and unacceptable and that we will indeed hold the leadership of this club accountable for any such ill fashioned attack upon another individual.

But for two members of the VAC, leaders of the VAC, to vocalize these serious concerns speaks very poorly of the WBCCI leadership. And I truly would hope the solution we could arrive at is not thusly to stop speaking or tiptoe before the high places but to right the miscarriages of justice and the abuse of power within the club, and send that message out clearly and unwaiveringly!

Why would anyone voluntarily seek membership, fellowship and association with others of that penchant, least of all elect them to be our highest officers and representatives? Are these Wally's ambassadors?

[rideair]

All,

I think we can all agree the VAC is a "GREAT" Intra-Club and has some "GREAT LEADERS" over the years. These leaders have done some GREAT things for the VAC and even the WBCCI as a by-product of such. Just think of all those over the years that have joined the WBCCI just to be part of the VAC.

THe VAC has had some GREAT rallies, caravans, etc... along with a top notch magazine, easy payment.

So let's give credit where credit is do!

[wheel interested]

People will be hurt for what is said here. That is both astonishing and very disturbing! But Tim and Jim and the others are absolutely correct in reminding us that that is exactly what happened to Shari and it wasn't pretty, yet another shameful moment in the club's modern history. That being the case, I may have to agree with those that say hold your tongue and step away. When the threat of harm to others is real, it's not fun anymore. And I am certain is wasn't fun for Leo and his family, or Bob T., or others that received threatening letters or those worried that they will be targeted next. I get it. I really do.

[cooperhawk]

And so it goes, on and on and on and on...................

[xrvr]

Just curious, how many WBCCI members who own vintage have signed on with VAC.? Most? some? zz

[Coloradobus]

I apaolgize to you Leo, I got my posts mixed. It was Frank that commented on the fact that the VACPres, 1st and 2nd Vac Veeps aern't commenting since Tim is the "voice."
But you are right, Herb Spies, VAC pres after Shari and before Scot, has ended their participation in all things WBCCi, and Scot S has left, too. So, there is a pattern that follows the VAC board after being an officer. Chewed up and spit-out by the all things WBCCi politico and they leave.
Chris is looking forward to his 2013 VAC presidential duties except standing in front of the IBT giving the VAC report..
We will be enjoying more things Tin Can Tourist with Forrest and Patrice.

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

But you are right, Herb Spies, VAC pres after Shari and before Scot, has ended their participation in all things WBCCi, and Scot S has left, too. So, there is a pattern that follows the VAC board after being an officer.

I was wondering how many VAC past presidents have left the WBCCI. Several come to mind although I would need to go through a directory to see if it is inactive or quit.
I had noticed I had not seen Herb Spies at Sarasota for the last couple years but since Sidra is writing a Blue Beret column they must still be in the WBCCI.
The only time I would see Scott was at the international and we have quit going due to the full hook up situation