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Old 04-10-2011, 07:28 AM   #61
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Wow! Herb and Scott gone too? Scott is third generation Airstreamer! And Herb, that's huge. I am sorry to hear that. I have met them both and saw their keen interest in Airstreaming and vintage. As a (then) newbie they were an inspiration coming into the club.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:27 PM   #62
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Fact check?

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But you are right, Herb Spies, VAC pres after Shari and before Scot, has ended their participation in all things WBCCi, and Scot S has left, too.
I just looked in the 2011 directory and indeed see that the Scheuermanns are missing, but the Spies are still in there. So it's possible that Herb has ended his participation in WBCCI, but he was still a member as of the 2011 directory.

I am very sorry to see Scott go. He was instrumental in our joining WBCCI and VAC years ago when he was Region 4 VAC representative. At the same time, I'm not surprised. He was asked to step in unexpectedly as VAC president and then got endless grief over it. No good deed goes unpunished.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:17 PM   #63
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What????

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He was asked to step in unexpectedly as VAC president and then got endless grief over it. No good deed goes unpunished.
.
Not true John, He was recruited as normal and knew and approved the changes that moved him into his presidency.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:28 PM   #64
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Arrow Talk about rumors starting this thread

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Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
But you are right, Herb Spies, VAC pres after Shari and before Scot, has ended their participation in all things WBCCi, So, there is a pattern that follows the VAC board after being an officer. Chewed up and spit-out by the all things WBCCi politico and they leave.
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
I just looked in the 2011 directory and indeed see that the Scheuermanns are missing, but the Spies are still in there. So it's possible that Herb has ended his participation in WBCCI, but he was still a member as of the 2011 directory.
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Wow! Herb and Scott gone too? And Herb, that's huge. I am sorry to hear that. I have met them both and saw their keen interest in Airstreaming and vintage.
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I had noticed I had not seen Herb Spies at Sarasota for the last couple years but since Sidra is writing a Blue Beret column they must still be in the WBCCI.
I just went back and forth with Herb via email, he's "a full card carrying member" as he put it, getting ready for a rally next weekend and proud new grand parents.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:38 PM   #65
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Not true John, He was recruited as normal and knew and approved the changes that moved him into his presidency.
Ed, we were both at the VAC annual meeting at Bozeman when it happened. As I recall he was then 2nd VP, and was catapulted into the president position, skipping the 1st VP office, because the nominating committee was concerned that the then-1st VP, who normally would have moved up to president, had never been to an International and wouldn't have the experience he needed to handle VAC activities at the next International.

Yes, Scott "approved the changes that moved him into his presidency", but they came as a surprise to him at the time.

And no, it was not a vast conspiracy against the then-1st VP as some have alleged later, it was serious concern about the need for International experience to do the job. And no, the normal chain of succession is not mandated in the VAC constitution or bylaws, the decision on candidates is up to the nominating committee, so everything was perfectly above board.

My point being that I always thought Scott got a lot of grief for things that were not at all his fault and I can't say as I blame him for leaving.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:12 PM   #66
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What happened to the past prez

Here is a list of most of the VAC past presidents, not in exact order. There are a couple more but I couldn't remember the names
Feel free to correct or add information as all this is strictly from memory.
I was surprised some of these are still members as they do not seem to be active.
These are WBCCI memberships, not VAC

Bud Cooper, founder deceased
Bob Brubaker, Deceased not 100% sure on this one except for the deceased part
Dick Mumma, member
Forrest Bone, non-member Revived Tin Can tourists
Clyde Wagner, non-member
Tom Reed , member
Nolan Vogt, deceased
Don Perry , member
Rick Davis , I’m still here
Tom Howarth, member started WDCU
Bob Herman, member
Wayne Moore, non-member
Ed Emerick, member
Shari Davis, member
Herb Spies, member
Scott Scheuermann, non-member
Dallas Peak, member
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:20 PM   #67
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No. The VAC should stay in WBCCI. I am not a member of the VAC. I might be sometime. If it is a part of WBCCI. Love to see the old units at the rallies.
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:48 PM   #68
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Thanks Leo, I will tell him to fax it.
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Old 04-11-2011, 03:10 AM   #69
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To the original question . . .

If the VAC were to split off from WBCCI, I would:
  1. Remain in the WBCCI because even though I am only in my 40's, I have been to many fun WBCCI events that had nothing to do with the VAC.
  2. Resign as VAC Historian because to me Airstream and WBCCI history are intertwined and my desire to volunteer my time to the organization just would NOT be there.
  3. Maybe stay in the VAC. It would depend upon the direction that the VAC would take. Given how few VAC events there currently are and how far away they are from where I live, and given that most of the current contributors to the VAC Vintage Advantage newsletter might not go along with the split, there might be little to entice me to follow the VAC into an independent organization.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
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Old 04-11-2011, 04:57 AM   #70
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And no, it was not a vast conspiracy against the then-1st VP as some have alleged later, it was serious concern about the need for International experience to do the job.
It's misplaced "concern" like this that is destroying the club. Anyone who actually knows Rob Baker knows that he could have done the job as VAC President with one hand tied behind his back... it is not rocket science, and for those of you who don't know, Rob IS a rocket scientist.

Sorry to get a little off topic, but in reality, it appears that one's ability to please the IBT is the prime requirement for running the VAC. This does not make for a well run club and as we have seen... it drives members away.

So that being said, a separation from being under the thumb of the IBT may be just what the VAC needs.
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:01 AM   #71
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Reports?

Is there actually a requirement to give the IBT a verbal report? There may be but I don't want to read through everything trying to find it.

When I was VAC prez in 2003 I know I did not do such a report and was never asked for one.. I do remember getting lots of other stuff from HQ and turning down an invite to a fancy dress up dinner.. I also don't remember status reports from the other clubs although I may have missed them.

Of course at that time I believed the IBT actually knew what it was doing , payed little attention to them, and did not attend their meetings.
I do recall an incident though where one of our VAC members wanted to introduce a motion (request?) for a name change for his California unit and there was some issue about how he had to being properly dressed to do that.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:13 AM   #72
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I joined the WBCCI so I could be in the VAC, but I have since dropped out due to my peception of the WBCCI per the quote below. I would have stayed in just to attend the RMVAC, but there isn't one this year.

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... the VAC is a shining gem of a group of people with a very cool special interest, but it comes attached to a dodgy old club being run into the ground by a few militaristic old guys, in hats & ties, without email/internet, who camp on the clubs money, some want to do it in fiberglass class A's with full body painted swooshes ...
The RMVAC brings me to the point--my whole interest is in the VAC, and in units like the 4CU. It's all vintage and all fun, not rules and ceremony. Enuff said.

Whether VAC is inside or outside the WBCCI is less important than making the VAC more attractive to all vintage owners. I appreciate Tim's comments and I'm going to have to reconsider joining up again so I can fight from the inside instead of taking shots from afar. Thank you, Tim (and Kimber and Fred and KenJ and Forrest and Herb and Kip and ...even Frank ).

Now, what to do? I've made long posts in past years about comparing the VAC to the EAA--we need an "Oshkosh" for the VAC.
- Ken Johansen's (KEN J) restoration rally is a great start.
- We need more support for the RMVAC so Shari and team don't get burned out.
- We need to appreciate Forrest and Fred's vintage articles and help get more of them written and published
- We need to make sure vintage owners know they can subscribe to the VAC newsletter independenly from being a member, which avoids the WBCCI issue to some extent
What other ideas are potential members willing to suggest, support?

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Old 04-11-2011, 04:26 PM   #73
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Zep - I don't think the whole issue could have been better presented. Very well thought out & written, without attacking anyone. Well done. Thanks.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:11 PM   #74
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Yep

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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Yes, Scott "approved the changes that moved him into his presidency", but they came as a surprise to him at the time.


My point being that I always thought Scott got a lot of grief for things that were not at all his fault and I can't say as I blame him for leaving.
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John,
It was discussed with him before the meeting, it was not a surprise. As far as getting a lot of grief for what was not his fault, we all did, ask any VAC PP.

I traded emails with Scott and the grief was not his reason for not rejoining the WBCCI.

Just wanted to make sure the record is clear here.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:35 PM   #75
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I have until now been very neutral to anything said about the WBCCI. The only reason I joined the WBCCI was to be a member of VAC! I would love to be just a member of the VAC. I am 37 years old and those who have met me know I am very passionate about vintage airstreams, so much so I started a business 6 years ago that restores them! At my age and with my devote passion, you have to admit that I am the future of Airstream and the WBCCI; However, my generation with the disposable income to own new or restore Airstreams do not relate or understand the the WBCCI in its current form! We (my generation) do understand the importance of the history of the club and value it's roots. I honor what Stella and Wally set forth and in no way want it to go away! Lets face the fact, if the current WBCCI does not attract the young (my generation) there will be no club! I attended a few events in DENCO chapter and was by far the youngest person! When I have attended anything vintage I in no way feel to be the youngest! I state this only to make the point that the VAC is the only part of the WBCCI that seams to be attracting younger members and without younger members the club is doomed! I think that it would be a shame if the WBCCI failed! I also think that the VAC without the WBCCI would be a shame! I think the best thing to do is give me a chance to pay my yearly dues to the VAC and that the VAC only pay 10-15% of that money to the WBCCI, rather than having to pay a year's dues to the WBCCI and extra for the VAC!!!! In the end this issue keeps coming back to two things $$$ and who controls the $$$! I wish the issue was really which part of the club is cooler the VAC or the WBCCI?

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Old 04-11-2011, 07:18 PM   #76
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I'm not at all trying to be clamorous, Todd, but according to this recent poll, your age puts you in a bit of a minority even here on the forums.

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Old 04-11-2011, 08:23 PM   #77
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As far as getting a lot of grief for what was not his fault, we all did, ask any VAC PP.
I can't speak for other people here but I find this sentence to be very troubling.

I always thought vintage vehicles were supposed to fun not a cause of grief.

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Old 04-13-2011, 06:29 AM   #78
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If there were a Vintage Airstream Club separate from the WBCCI, I would likely join. I'm a vintage Airstream owner and believe in supporting other vintage owners.

I don't have anything for or against the WBCCI. For me, it's a bit like a science experiment, i.e., how long does it take a social club to die and what finally kills it in the end? To a guy with an interest in organizational life cycles, it really is a fascinating case study. It's my opinion that the WBCCI will slowly wither over the next couple of decades and limp along until the financial issues reach some sort of critical mass. I don't see the VAC going anywhere because the culture of the WBCCI is deeply resistant to change. The vested interests have too much invested.

If there was a "split" (in some alternative universe), I would be immediately curious because I would presume the departure would indicate that the VAC people saw a compelling reason to leave the WBCCI. And if they did, this would suggest they might have an idea of what the club's problems are and (gasp!) how to address them. I wouldn't call myself an active member of TAC, but I am a supporter. While I don't know how the club will evolve... at least people are trying something different.

The larger problem--as I see it--is that the aluminum of Airstream as an iconic brand has tarnished. The vintage units have a "cool" that the modern units lack (at least in my opinion). There may have been a time when the WBCCI/VAC added to the luster of the Airstream brand. I respectfully suggest that time has passed. Put simply, I don't know many owners in my age group (sub-50) who bought an Airstream for the chance to join the WBCCI and to wear a blue hat.

The world has changed. People aren't learning about Airstream culture at a campground where everyone is flocking around the hipsters in the shiny bullet. Nope, they are learning about Airstream on the Internet... and then going camping. On the positive side, I think a place like Airforums shows vintage owners as these interesting group of iconoclasts who have a real passion for restoring, renovating and even improving classics Airstreams. On the negative side, I think someone reading threads about the WBCCI could easily conclude that Airstream is the preferred brand of travel trailer for pedants and pain's in the neck.

I think of it this way. Our Overlander will be on the road for another 50 years, long after I'm dead and buried. When people ask about "Helen Wheels," I try to "represent," to be an ambassador for the brand and the tradition. For me, it's not about the cult of Wally Byam or a bunch of silly ceremonial crap. It's not about Thor or the mother ship in Jackson. It's about what Airstream once was and could be again. I'll support any group that can rise above the petty squabbling and celebrate the trailer.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:24 AM   #79
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Quote:
What other ideas are potential members willing to suggest, support?

Zep

Rallies and more rallies

Simpler Vintage Advantage sent on a consistent basis - make sure all rallies are noted

Either update and keep the website updated (with all rallies noted and a good classified section and library) or close it

Don't worry about what the mother club is doing - remain positive and forward thinking

Do these things and I promise the club will grow to the numbers in the past.

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Old 04-13-2011, 02:58 PM   #80
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I would have already joined the VAC if it were not part of WBCCI. I would not expect to see the VAC split off but would consider joining if it did. I go camping for fun and relaxation.
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