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Old 04-07-2011, 03:47 PM   #29
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Paul why don't you add a poll to this thread?

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Old 04-07-2011, 03:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newroswell View Post
I shouldn't have substituted "fear" for your words of "deeply concerned". What your concern tells me is that you feel you have to answer to some higher authority in the club for something you didn't say, write, initiate, or contribute to. That is a burden a lot of us can't imagine putting ourselves through for a hobby club. I'm not suggesting the VAC should become the biggest baddest vintage club. But, the Airstream brand is the hottest brand in a very hot, rapidly expanding hobby field, The WBCCI & The Vintage Airstream Club should be the premier choice for these new owners. It's not, but a lot of them are joining other groups. You sound so accepting that a lot of people just don't want to be involved in the WBCCI and therefor the VAC.

A not so subtle, "butt-out, you have no dog in this fight". You almost got a "we want quality not quantity" in there also, but skirted around it.
Well, part of making a commitment to something like the VAC means that yes, at times I might be called to answer the claims made by others which are unsubstantiated. The VAC went through this before over practically the same situation. It is needless and unwarranted. You are making a good choice for not getting involved in any club if that type of commitment is outside of what you are willing to offer of yourself.
But I should not have to answer a charge like that if the rumor mill is not churning full speed ahead, should I? It is akin to me saying "hey, what would you think if you knew that Joe Blow was cheating on his taxes". Note, I didn't say that anybody was actually cheating, I merely suggested for thought and discussion "what if"? How many people are going to come back and think to themselves "That Joe Blow doesn't seem like an honest guy". The process sublimates to the point that Joe is actually a bad person in many people's eyes and now is put in a position to defend himself against charges that are unwarranted and unfounded. It is the same thing - especially on forums like this.

As for the "dog in the fight" statement, it is what it is. If you are not a current VAC member and/or a past member of the VAC/WBCCI, where is your dog? The VAC answers only to its members, not to the general public who whimsically think to themselves how great the vac would be if it just left the WBCCI. We are entertaining comments & suggestions from past VAC members for why they left and current members for what we can do better. Being as you are probably neither, I fail to see where you would be able to offer a suggestion for how we can do it better. Somebody who is not in WBCCI/VAC currently or in the past cannot possibly comment on what we are doing wrong - they aren't in the club and do not know what we are doing.... You would be more successful suggesting to TCT what they could do better or how they should run.

You may be upset that you don't have a say in the VAC, but it is what it is.... If you want to deflect that anger onto me by suggesting I am seeking some sort of "Quality over Quantity" ... fine, I can deal with that. Facts deny your reality, but I can deal with it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:06 PM   #31
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Its interesting, but scanning the posts here I see that of the people who are in the VAC or WBCCI, the comment is that it should stay - at least I counted 5 (I may have missed a result).
Most of the rest of the responses are from people who said that would join the VAC if it were NOT in WBCCI - and they aren't in WBCCI.

So how anybody could draw any conclusive results from this king of survey is beyond me in the first place? I think the final results would be the same - people in the VAC/WBCCI would vote to stay in WBCCI, those not in the VAC/WBCCI would vote to leave.
Setting up a poll I imagine would net the same results, but it would have to be analyzed at some point as to whether a respondent was in or not in WBCCI and/or VAC.

It is a little like comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:07 PM   #32
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"Hey did you hear the VAC wants to break off from the WBCCI?" That would be a rumor. Asking a question is not a rumor but an inquiry. And actually Tim you just might have too much of a dog in the fight to post in a thread asking people what they think rather than asking you what you think. Paul did ask non members if they would join the VAC if it were not for WBCCI in the opening thread post. So maybe you can stop directing and let people express their opinions that you have already said are not important to you as a leader in the VAC since they aren't members. Perhaps this thread is one you do not care to join or should be part of. It is what it is...which is Paul's thread and an open discussion and not an invitation to be moderated by leadership. Let them talk instead of being so defensive as to curtail communication and exclude people depending upon your decision of how qualified they are to address the subject matter. Everyone has a say. This isn't a meeting, a committee or a report. Chill.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:23 PM   #33
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Tim, disregard all of what I said. The VAC is doing great. You have picked an excellent niche market serving only the WBCCI member who is a vintage enthusiast. The rest of us vintage folks can just go else where. Good luck my man. Hope you grow the best vintage club within the WBCCI you can. GODSPEED TIM BUTTERCUP!!!!!
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Its interesting, but scanning the posts here I see that of the people who are in the VAC or WBCCI, the comment is that it should stay - at least I counted 5 (I may have missed a result).
make that six
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:41 PM   #35
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I'm rarely upset about anything and never angry. You're suggesting that the VAC is far more important in life than it really is. Let's put this in perspective, the VAC is a shining gem of a group of people with a very cool special interest, but it comes attached to a dodgy old club being run into the ground by a few militaristic old guys, in hats & ties, without email/internet, who camp on the clubs money, some want to do it in fiberglass class A's with full body painted swooshes (to promote Airstreams ). [Run-on sentence intentional!] Yes, Wally is rolling in his grave right now and has been for 20 years.

I merely pointed out there is an opportunity for the VAC (and the WBCCI for that matter) to figure out a way to embrace this surge of wonderful and fascinating people into our world of travel and exploration. I'm not sure how you added the posts, I see 8 that would stay or join if the club was separate, and 1 that would leave, 1 other that wasn't specific if he would actually leave if separate. Bring on the poll. As a leader, I would think you would want to know what your FUTURE MEMBERS are saying. Or have you written us off already?
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newroswell View Post
........ it comes attached to a dodgy old club being run into the ground by a few militaristic old guys, in hats & ties, without email/internet, who camp on the clubs money, some want to do it in fiberglass class A's with full body painted swooshes (to promote Airstreams ).
LMAO, that has to be an award wining summary,
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:06 PM   #37
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"winning?" Torpedoes of Truth! Bring it ( poll)

Facts deny your reality, but I can deal with it!
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:40 PM   #38
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NewRos,
Quite the opposite - I don't think the VAC is more important in life than it really is.... Not sure how you come up with that. I said that it is an intraclub within WBCCI, nothing more. That makes it just an intraclub within WBCCI - period.

I said that I scaned the posts and got some results - and those results still stand, those in the club want to see it stay, those outside want to see it go. You lumped everybody together to get the results you were looking for. We re playing tug 'o war with the VAC.... Yea, how fun.

Carol, It is so strange to now be on the business end of your heat. You are right, I have too much dog - we should entertain in the most public of venues a proposition that last time presented got the officers of the VAC in hot water, and they didn't really do a thing wrong. This is good idea indeed!
Paul asked 3 things.
  • How many would leave the VAC if it left the WBCCI and why?
  • How many want the VAC to leave the WBCCI and why?
  • How many would join the VAC if it were not part of the WBCCI and why?
And it does not change the point I am unsuccessfully making - this thread will, as it did in the past, probably lead to confusion and a misunderstanding that the VAC is in fact leaving WBCCI, which it is not. There are a lot of uninvolved and dis-involved people trying to sway what the VAC and WBCCI is doing... Why?

Frank, The VAC is what it is - an intraclub within WBCCI. It is not trying to be anything else or compete with anybody. But predominantly non-WBCCI/VAC people are talking about getting it to leave. So why is everybody trying to make it something it is not, do something it won't? What with all the "hugely popular" other clubs out there like TCT, what purpose would be served by the VAC leaving WBCCI. Who's needs would it really serve??? A few dozen people who have bunches and bunches of other options? Or is the VAC actually the best gig in town when it comes to vintage Airstreaming? If so, all those other "hugely Popular" other clubs aren't so popular afterall.....

I think I am seeing a totally new side to this story and that is there are a lot of people who would like to see the WBCCI suffer and collapse as precipitously as possible - the sooner the better. And by whatever means necessary they will make that happen - any means. I think that there are several people playing a game of chess - the board is this forums, the pieces are the various clubs involved - and the VAC is just a pawn in somebody's big game. This isn't about the VAC afterall, is it.... This is about the WBCCI.

Folks, I can see I am swimming up a stream of vitriol here pondering a scenario that has little to no chance of happening. Enjoy your thought experiment. I wish you all the success in achieving the exact results you hope to see.

Peace/out
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
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I think I am seeing a totally new side to this story and that is there are a lot of people who would like to see the WBCCI suffer and collapse as precipitously as possible - the sooner the better. And by whatever means necessary they will make that happen - any means.
Tim it's just like Casablanca "round up the usual suspects"
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:45 PM   #40
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Oh well, so must for that effort to find out what is in the best interest of the VAC.

Tim,

Over the years and seeing many posts from folks saying they would like to join the VAC, but they won't as long as it's part of the WBCCI and with people dropping like flies in the WBCCI over the past year (of which many were VAC members) I thought it would be a good idea to see where the minds (of those not joining) to the hearts of those that are members to the hearts/minds that have left would be and to see if it was leaning one way or the other.

At this point, I'm sorry I even asked.

With things like the "New WBCCI Constitution" driving even bigger wedges between membership and leadership which in the end has and will cause even more people to leave (we had an example just this last week) as an Intra-Club it might have been a good idea to see if it could stand on it's own as a life boat vs. going down with the ship.

I got my card in the mail today reminding me I forgot to pay my VAC dues, which I will do so shortly.

I think the leadership of the VAC has much they could teach the leadership of the mothership.

Hey, look at it this way, with each year passing you have that many more trailers/members to join.

Again Sorry!
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:06 PM   #41
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I'd join the VAC in a minute if it left the WBCCI.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:40 PM   #42
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I've been following this thread and I think I am missing something. If VAC has only about 300 to 400 members as indicated on another thread then it seems to me that the VAC isn't much of a factor. The wbcci will probably lose another 800 to 1,000 members this year ignoring VAC. The VAC is becoming irrelevant just like the wbcci.
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