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Old 04-06-2011, 08:54 PM   #15
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Tim,

Please don't take me starting this thread as a way to start or keep rumors going or anything of the such. It was done to find out if there was support for the VAC to break off or stay with the WBCCI and to make sure we are not missing the boat and possible members to the VAC.

Just want to know what can be done to help grow vintage Airstreaming in general being that I just picked up my 7th one tonight! A 1974 27 foot all original trailer. So that makes a 1956 Front Kitchen, 1966 26 and 22 and 20 footer, 1970 23', 1974 27', 1979 7.3 minuet.

At this point I can have my own Vintage rally and not have to invite anyone!
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:14 PM   #16
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Well - we have had Wally and Helen rolling in their graves, now Bud - I 100% agree with Butter - I know the grass looks greener, but for one the VAC could not be split even if it wanted to and two any new club will have legal and insurance issues to deal with - will still have the same problems of a newsletter, name recongnition etc etc.

I'm not happy about the WBCCI either - no argument there - but I'm getting more tired of what seems to be the few who continually want to bash it because it seems cool to do.....

If and when I decide to quit the WBCCI, I will do so quietly and I will wish them well. For now I am behind the VAC and their efforts to regroup to come back stronger than ever. That - it seems - is the best most productive thing we can do.

Ken J.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:27 PM   #17
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Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J View Post
. . .for one the VAC could not be split even if it wanted to. . .
Why not?
.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:30 PM   #18
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I, for one, joined the WBCCI because of the VAC.
As my wife is so fond of saying, “You can pick your friends but not your family.”
If I had a to deal with a belligerent father in law I wouldn’t file for a divorce.
At this point I’m still hoping for meaningful changes from within.

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Old 04-06-2011, 10:20 PM   #19
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Frank,

I am not the official spokesperson for the VAC – I can only speak for myself. I think we actually agree on your points:
  • The VAC (by nature of being an intraclub within WBCCI) is not for everybody.
  • The Vintage Advantage is a publication of the VAC and does indeed contain content that is related to both clubs (Big Red Numbers stories for example).
  • There will be people who do not want to be in the VAC because it means joining the WBCCI.
But I do not agree that supporting the VAC supports the WBCCI. A subscription as we call it for non-WBCCI members really covers the cost of publishing the newsletter, the funds do not go to the mother-ship and actually goes towards supporting The VAC. If that means that WBCCI gets good press because of it, well, we can't help that and really its not a bad thing because WBCCI is not a bad club overall. Its the leadership and direction the leadership is taking that is the problem for most people.

As for surveying the membership, we are doing exactly that. We are asking for the hard truths about the VAC, the VACs leadership and the direction the VAC is taking. I am believe that we will not hear the landslide of dissension about WBCCI that you expect because we are talking to people who are members of WBCCI and are probably generally quite content with the club(s) overall. So those results will not yield the results you perhaps expect.

But we are also going to survey the past members of the VAC – those who have not renewed – to ask why they didn't. Perhaps in that survey we will get more results more in line for what you expect. And that is good because we will also hear what we as an intra-club have been doing that could be better. That is what we are looking for – how we as an intraclub can improve. I cannot express enough how seriously we are taking this and how much effort we are putting into this! You will likely get a request to participate in the survey and I hope you, as well as all readers of this thread, will respond in all earnestness to our survey.

We do cater to 2 audiences in the VAC – members of WBCCI and non-members of WBCCI. We try to create a publication that reaches all. We do that because, quite frankly, a subscriber is still a potential member of the VAC (and yes, of the WBCCI as well). But we also do understand that this sort of information is not for all people.

Paul,
I understand the the point of the thread – I really do. I am one person who has been ground up by the WBCCI political machine more than once. I still maintain 3 memberships in WBCCI – because we love the history of our Big Red Numbers. However, I would be negligent in my position within the VAC if I did not make the assertion that there is practically no chance whatsoever of the VAC pulling out of the WBCCI to form a new club. I must take the position that this is not a reality in our future. I am deeply concerned that to discuss this as a possibility is tantamount to it actually being considered at some level. It is not – not at any level! Period! I don't want people to think that if enough people respond in the positive towards this thread that it might happen. The truth is that we are working to strengthen out intraclub.

When I took up the position of 3rd VP of the VAC, I swore an oath to uphold not only our constitution but also that of the WBCCI. That goes for all of the officers I am quite sure. I see no indication that this dedication is wavering. That doesn't mean that we like all that is happening with the WBCCI, but I believe we all had the VACs bests interests at heart when we volunteered for out positions. And I think we all are taking these positions very seriously!

So, while this might be an interesting and passionate discussion for the forums here, it is outside the realm of reality for the VAC. And if I hear someone complain that the VAC is once again talking about pulling out of WBCCI, I will, with all my authority, say that this is not the case.

Like I have said earlier, we have been down this road before and one VAC member had to defend herself and the VAC before before the leadership of the WBCCI to say this was not going to happen. She took a ton of needless heat and it never had to happen. It was a bad situation and it caused a lot of unnecessary ill feelings. I do not want to see that repeated because of a forums thread outside the influence of the VAC or WBCCI.

I will say that I will monitor this thread and use the constructive comments to hopefully better the VAC. And I will reiterate that I am speaking only for myself, not for the rest of the VACs leadership. But I do believe they feel the same.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:39 PM   #20
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I, for one, would not belong to the VAC without it's affiliation with the WBCCI. I first began Caravanning in 1956 when my father bought his first Airstream.

I specifically bought a vintage Airstream to relive my childhood memories. The WBCCI does not look significantly different to me than I remember it 50 years ago. And, I like that. After all Wally & Helen designed the WBCCI the way they wanted it, and people joined in droves.

I don't understand why people who want to participate in vintage events, want to transform the WBCCI into something "new". That doesn't seem to reflect a vintage philosophy to me.

Now before some of you get out your flame throwers, I don't find anything wrong with other philosphies. Feel free to participate in TAC or other organizations the meet your expectations. But please quit trying to destroy the dream of Wally Byam and a 50 year legacy.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:55 PM   #21
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I think the reason change within the WBCCI would be advantageous is because Wally, Stella,Helen and many others are gone today and people are no longer joining in droves. Preserving things the same on the basis of the way the club was when its purpose was to introduce recreational travel to the open road 55 or so years ago doesn't have the fit it once did. I don't think change is the harm. Now that different members are here I think they should fashion the club to their design and the older members should allow the change to happen.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:28 AM   #22
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This has been a very civil thread. No one has Bashed once here. People have merely stated how they feel. The question was asked IF the VAC was a separate club would you be a member and people are stating their opinions.


Ken, it is much easier than you think. At current membership it would cost $4 a member.

Tim, Just suggesting you ask, you might be surprised at what you hear. As the future President, it is always good to know where those you are leading stand.

Grand Master. This is 2011 not 1954. A good deal of change has taken place in 57 years. I am sure you had a wonderful childhood, but we are not children anymore. Also no one here is trying to destroy the club you see so fondly through nostalgic glasses.

I have to also make a little correction. The Club(named after Wally Byam) was formed by people that went on Wally's early caravans as a way to stay "united" as they had on the caravans. It was not started by Wally. Wally was alive for less than 8 years after the club started. He was heading up caravans for most of it and very ill for the latter part. He did not dream up the club and he did not make the rules of the club. He did put Helen in charge and she made it run well. After her retirement there has been a percipitous drop that continues today. It appears that outsiders and few individuals have been trying for many years to destroy it.

Funny thing about Americans; most always look for someone else to blame instead of accepting their own failures. Instead of looking for a solution to the problem most look at someone to point their fingers.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Tim, Just suggesting you ask, you might be surprised at what you hear. As the future President, it is always good to know where those you are leading stand.

Funny thing about Americans; most always look for someone else to blame instead of accepting their own failures. Instead of looking for a solution to the problem most look at someone to point their fingers.
Frank,

As I mentioned earlier, we are surveying all of the members for what we can do better. So, in that venue, if someone wanted to, they could make that suggestion. We are also surveying the past members to see why they left. With that we can see what we need to do to improve retention. So there is also opportunities for people to express their feelings in that venue.

The problem as I see it is
  • topics discussed here on these forums have a tendency to be viewed in a light perhaps other than they may have been intended.
  • there is already a history of VAC secession rumors being propagated right here as some sort of fact (I am guilty of doing that myself)
  • those rumors caused such ill feelings on many sides

The FACTS are
  • the VAC is not talking about leaving WBCCI
  • this thread likely will be viewed as some sort of movement to get the VAC out of WBCCI
And as an officer of the VAC who will likely have to answer for that, I am doing so summarily right here and right now.

I like the last sentence in your post - I re-quoted it above. The VAC is looking at our situation from a viewpoint isolated from the problems within WBCCI because we cannot control what happens within WBCCI, we can only control what is within our sphere of influence. We aren't looking at anybody else to blame, not even WBCCI, we are focusing entirely within the VAC itself to see where and what we need to do to improve the VAC.

I have no doubt that unlike other surveys that have been taken within WBCCI and then largely ignored by the leadership, we, the leaders of the VAC are looking at what WE, the leaders of the VAC, can do to correct things within. I can say that the discussions we are having are empowering and positive. There are no apparent walls of pride. There are tons of really good suggestions from people who obviously care a great deal about the club. I wish I could see this in wholesale fashion within WBCCI.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:07 AM   #24
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"The only reason I ever considered joining the WBCCI (which I haven't) is so I could be in the VAC. I would join the VAC immediately if it were not a part of the WBCCI."
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #25
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Buttercup, you are now officially on the record as opposing the idea of the VAC breaking away. Consider yourself absolved of any blasphemy. Creating your own thread to discuss improving the VAC is a good idea. But I suspect it will go the way of all the Improve The WBCCI threads. As soon as a non member suggests something a doesn't like they'll be told to butt-out and let the grown-ups talk (no dog in the fight, etc)... Meanwhile a lot of us are sitting out the WBCCI nonsense and choosing to spend our time and money participating in other wildly successful groups. Just because you haven't been involved in any talk of VAC leaving the club doesn't mean the lowly members aren't. And why shouldn't they after the mistreatment that's so well documented here. The fact that you fear being summoned to explain your actions (either real or perceived) speaks volumes.

THIS thread posts a completely valid question. But give a Improve the VAC thread a try. Why are other vintage groups having so much success. Have you been to a Tin Can Tourist rally? And there are OTHER vintage groups not even associated with TCT that are having huge success. The Vintage Trailer scene is growing by leaps and bounds. If the VAC isn't experiencing it's biggest success ever, RIGHT NOW, then something is horribly wrong.

I'll bet there will be at least one Vintage Trailer club that is larger than all of the WBCCI in the next couple years.

YouTube - Pismo Beach Vintage Trailer Rally - Pismo Coast Village RV
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #26
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I guess some folks are not reading my posts.... My fault perhaps as I do get long winded at times.

NewRos, Thank you for your absolution, I feel better... I am curious, what volumes does it speak to you that I do not wish to have to answer a rumor that will be believed as fact? Its interesting you use the word "fear" - I don't remember using that word to describe my unwillingness to have to deal with a rumor somebody else starts and then walks away with no responsibility for the outcome of that rumor. That is very convenient for some, but not me.

Currently, he VAC has a good relationship with the leadership of WBCCI, why should that be once again jeopardized because someone tosses out a rumor or suggestion that the VAC is leaving the club when that is simply not true.

I think you may also be operating under a misconception about the VAC compared to other groups. You point out that there are other vintage clubs out there - that is great! I support that, I am happy for that. But the VAC is not in some sort of competition to be the biggest, baddest vintage club in the world. We have a target audience - that of the WBCCI member who is a vintage enthusiast. So, what we actually want to be is the biggest and baddest vintage club the WBCCI has ever seen. We are in no way in a competition with any other vintage club anywhere. We understand that anybody who is not interested in WBCCI is likely not interested in the VAC so what use can their opinion be? If there are so many other clubs out there like TCT, anybody not interested in WBCCI will not even look at the VAC.

Along those lines, it becomes pretty irrelivant to start a thread on how to improve the VAC here on these forums because there will be too many responses from people who aren't in the VAC or WBCCI - people such as yourself perhaps. Remember - we are an intraclub within WBCCI, our membership base IS the WBCCI, not really the general public. And you are probably correct, any thread like that will quickly devolve into a "WBCCI sucks" mosh pit. so it likely will not

I do believe the members of the VAC as a whole are not talking about the club leaving WBCCI because with the propensity of so many other wildly successful clubs out there, they would probably just leave. Why stay in the VAC when there are better options out there? Why have to make a choice between the VAC and another club at all?

In any event, I am sure there might be a few people who might wish the VAC to leave, but I cannot see them being a majority of the VAC members by any stretch of the imagination. As it stands in this thread already, there there isn't an overwhelming response from VAC members who would rather see the VAC pull out. There are far more people who are not in the VAC who say they would join if. We'll find out though. The VAC is already in the process of surveying current and past members of the VAC, which includes current and past members of WBCCI for input, so we are already gathering input form non-WBCCI members. But we are gathering information from people who used to be members of WBCCI and have experience with them.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:58 PM   #27
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I shouldn't have substituted "fear" for your words of "deeply concerned". What your concern tells me is that you feel you have to answer to some higher authority in the club for something you didn't say, write, initiate, or contribute to. That is a burden a lot of us can't imagine putting ourselves through for a hobby club. I'm not suggesting the VAC should become the biggest baddest vintage club. But, the Airstream brand is the hottest brand in a very hot, rapidly expanding hobby field, The WBCCI & The Vintage Airstream Club should be the premier choice for these new owners. It's not, but a lot of them are joining other groups. You sound so accepting that a lot of people just don't want to be involved in the WBCCI and therefor the VAC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Along those lines, it becomes pretty irrelivant to start a thread on how to improve the VAC here on these forums because there will be too many responses from people who aren't in the VAC or WBCCI - people such as yourself perhaps.
A not so subtle, "butt-out, you have no dog in this fight". You almost got a "we want quality not quantity" in there also, but skirted around it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:46 PM   #28
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I am not familar with the entire workings of the VAC. However to belong to some club is apealing and the VAC would be my club of choice. However joining the WBCCI to be part of the VAC is the obsticle I will not hurdle. I have been a member of the WBCCI and I am not currently a member and will not be one in the foreseeable future.

>>>Action
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