Ramblings about 2016 Classic...

[cory_can]

Originally Posted by graysailor

Unless one gets a 5th wheel or SOB storage will always be a challenge with an Airstream.

My covers are gone, don't miss them.

As for storage, my theory is if it doesn't fit in the AS or within a few totes in the truck bed, I'm probably carrying too much junk.

[Zybane]

Jimmeny cricket. I replaced the stock solar PCM-25 solar controller with another unit only to find out that the new controller doesn't have the RJ-45 connection to go to the solar status panel. What the heck? Who makes two solar controllers, one with and without that port and uses the same model/part number.

[Zybane]

More delicious Airstream quality. I noticed my dinette seat was loose. At the factory they installed self-tapping machine screws at the feet into the plywood floor. Self tapping machine screws.... into plywood... For anyone that knows anything about carpentry, that is an idiotic move. The screw threads have nothing to hold on to once the tapping head chews through the plywood.

Basically everything under the visible interior surfaces of the trailer has to either be re-tightened, re-worked or replaced.

[dhroberts]

Originally Posted by Zybane

Bought some parts to continue my mods.

1. Progressive 50 AMP surge protector which will also allow me to see the pedestal voltage.
2. Hughes 50 AMP voltage booster.
3. Some #6-3 copper cable.

Those items above will be installed up against the wall inside the fridge compartment, which would allow them to vent outside if anything shorts out. Fans will be installed at the top of the fridge vent and at the bottom vent intake to make sure there is plenty of air in there with this:

https://www.arprv.com/purchase.php

May also install in the fridge compartment an automatic fire extinguisher.

For internet needs, I have the following equipment inbound:

weBoost 471104 Connect 4G-X Extreme Signal Booster Kit 471104 1 $899.99
SureCall Full Band Fiberglass Omnidirectional Antenna (CM288W) CM288W 1 $79.95
Microlab 1 Meter Plenum Low-PIM Jumper Cable (JA-10MN) JA-10MN 1 $65.00
Wilson 10' Ultra Low Loss Coax Cable (952310) 952310 1 $27.95
Microlab YA-14NF Low-PIM Mini Wide-Band Omni Antenna YA-14NF 1 $149.00

Tarheel lift and lay antenna mount.
WifiRanger with Go2 router.

All of that will be wired through the fridge vent and mounted just above the Blu-ray player area.

Zybane:

Thank you for your many informative posts re your 2016 Classic. I too have one and I am preparing to install the Weboost 4G-X cell booster with the SureCall Omni antenna.

Several questions:

1) Where on the roof did you locate the outside antenna?
2) What type of bracket did you use to attach the outside antenna to the roof? I assume that an appropriate roof attachment bracket did not come with the SureCall Omni kit.
3) Re the ultra low loss cable, did you find its thickness an impediment to snaking the cable through the vent and into the cabinet?
4) Was 10 feet of ultra low loss cable sufficient?
5) What type of internal antenna did you use? Where did you locate it? Did you also use ultra low loss cable from the 4G-X to the internal antenna?

Thank you for your consideration. Regards,

Dennis

[beetlebob]

I am seeing a lot of new flying clouds coming into the park with the hinges falling off of the cabinets . They are using the same sheet metal screws into partical board to hold them on. They also have changed the vents in the roof to half plastic and not trimming the metal tabs off or the overlapping metal from the next panel and they are falling out of the roof like crazy.

[khollister]

Originally Posted by beetlebob

I am seeing a lot of new flying clouds coming into the park with the hinges falling off of the cabinets . They are using the same sheet metal screws into partical board to hold them on. They also have changed the vents in the roof to half plastic and not trimming the metal tabs off or the overlapping metal from the next panel and they are falling out of the roof like crazy.

My 2016 FC ( and all other FC & Intl's) have plywood cabinetry, not particle board.


Keith
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[Zybane]

Originally Posted by dhroberts

Zybane:

Thank you for your many informative posts re your 2016 Classic. I too have one and I am preparing to install the Weboost 4G-X cell booster with the SureCall Omni antenna.

Several questions:

1) Where on the roof did you locate the outside antenna?
2) What type of bracket did you use to attach the outside antenna to the roof? I assume that an appropriate roof attachment bracket did not come with the SureCall Omni kit.
3) Re the ultra low loss cable, did you find its thickness an impediment to snaking the cable through the vent and into the cabinet?
4) Was 10 feet of ultra low loss cable sufficient?
5) What type of internal antenna did you use? Where did you locate it? Did you also use ultra low loss cable from the 4G-X to the internal antenna?

Thank you for your consideration. Regards,

Dennis

Dennis:

1. Just between the rear skylight and the solar panel next to the fridge vent.
2. Lift and Lay motorized antenna mount by Tarheel. Awesome piece of kit.
3. It's a little cumbersome, but nothing that couldn't be done.
4. Yes.
5. Yes, a one meter cable. http://fxr.com/~/media/Microlab/Data...0615%20RA.ashx

James

Originally Posted by beetlebob

I am seeing a lot of new flying clouds coming into the park with the hinges falling off of the cabinets . They are using the same sheet metal screws into partical board to hold them on. They also have changed the vents in the roof to half plastic and not trimming the metal tabs off or the overlapping metal from the next panel and they are falling out of the roof like crazy.

Whomever at Airstream is ordering and allowing self tapping machine screws to be used to fasten into woodwork should be shot.

I knew there was some tweaking needing to be done before I bought my Airstream, but I didn't know I would need to be a full tradesmen to fix this thing!

So far on my new trailer to fix thing's I've done carpentry, plumbing, electrical etc..

[Zybane]

Anyone's door been leaking at all? I find a slight rust colored water trail after heavy rains just below the horizontal interior seam of the door. I checked up all around the window trim and top of the door, cannot find any gaps in the sealant. Almost as if it's coming in from the door handle area?

I may take a picture if anyone is good with AS doors.

[Zybane]

Could use some brainstorming thoughts on a "leak" from you guys!

Randomly one day I found that the three rolls of toilet paper I store under/behind the toilet were completely soaked. They had taken up a good 1-2 cups of water.

So naturally, I though OK there is small leak around the toilet plumbing. For the life of me, I couldn't find a single hint of water coming from anywhere! All connections were completely dry from where the supply line comes out of the back bathroom wall, to the shutoff valve, up to the toilet intake. All of the toilet mechanisms and base/actuators had zero evidence of any water.

So then I thought, what has changed lately? I usually keep the hot water heater off. BUt I remember the night before I had turned it on (electric). That same night I noted that the water pump would turn on/burp for just a fraction of a second. This has me worried, as we all know the pump turning on means the system is losing pressure somewhere. But I thought to myself, water expands slightly as it gets warmer, it doesn't contract. So the pressure should increase in the system, something that would go against the water bump turning on for any reason.

So I checked the water heater area and all connections under the bathroom sink. Absolutely everything bone dry. I checked the faucet connections, all the kitchen connections, the shower and also the exterior shower, all under belly valves including the one by the blank tank flush.

What in the world is causing the water pump to turn on at regular intervals for a fraction of a second with the water heater on? Does it have to do something with the air trapped in the water heater? But then again air expands as it gets hotter too...

The water pump never turns on when the water heater is off. I find no evidence of leaks anywhere.

Getting back to the water on the back side of the toilet, I kinda ruled out the toilet itself, ruled out the hot water heater. I understand the Dometic refrigerator does not do a frost removal cycle correct? This would leave:

1. Drain issue from the rear heat pump.
2. Leak in the roof somewhere.

What is odd is that the day I found the water, it did rain the previous day. I thought oh great, I have a roof leak which are notoriously hard to find. I checked the wood by the wheel well under the hamper in the bathroom and zero evidence of water damage or saturation around the perimeter of the toilet. A moisture meter confirmed the same. It also rained today and there is zero evidence of water in the same location.

This is definitely a head scratcher. Three soaked rolls of toilet paper have me worried, as does the random fraction of a second turning on of the water pump when the water heater is turned on.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[dkottum]

Zybane, there is a high probability the leak is caused by pressure buildup in the plumbing system when the water heater is on. The plumbing system should be tight enough for the temperature/pressure relief valve (on the water heater) to release any excessive pressure before it finds a weaker spot in the plumbing lines and fittings. I suspect you have a connection, perhaps at the toilet supply valve, that is not tight.

The way this system is supposed to work is there is supposed to be an air bubble in the top of the water heater to take up any expansion in the system, to prevent high pressure and possible leaks.

The way it usually works is if the water heater is left on (especially on electric and more especially on both electric and propane) the pressure will build, blow the air bubble out the temp/press relief valve, and you have no cushion for heated water expansion. Then it will continue finding a weak connection in the plumbing, or if none it will simply keep dripping water out the temp/press relief valve.

Three cures, and you may need them all. Don't leave the water heater on continuously, only when needed. Install a simple water pressure accumulator in a cold water line, under the bath sink is a good spot. And find the loose connection or weak pex crimp that is letting the water out, and tighten it.

If these don't stop the leak, you will at least have improved your plumbing system.

[caseywsj]

What was going on with the AC/heat pump during all of this? Where does the drain tubing run? I know when we have AC on the water discharge comes out between the tires, but I have no idea how it gets there from the top. But very odd that the 3 rolls of TP would be soaked from that. Even if it was a leak in the roof, you would expect that the entire floor and more would be wet. Our 2016 classic had a great soak test last t-giving with 7 continuous days of heavy rain. Not a drop anywhere where I've seen yet. We have seen condensation build up when cool outside, heat pump running and 2-3 people sleeping overnight. We now keep a window cracked up front. But I have no explanation for the TP soaking. The water heater and water pump seem like a red herring. Maybe bypass the water heater like winterizing and expect that the water pump won't cycle. I've never heard our water pump cycle intermittently, but honestly we pretty much only use the water pump when using something that needs water. I'm super paranoid about water. To the point where I'll almost always turn off city water when hooked up and away from the trailer. I'm currently in our Classic for a month, so will pay particular attention to the area(s) you have observed behind toilet. Temps have warmed up a little, but a week ago we had the heat pump going during the night with night temps in the 40's.

[caseywsj]

dkottum- interesting as when we are in the trailer & hooked up to shore power we have the electric heater on continuously. Doesn't sound like a great idea unless we want to pressure test the rest of the plumbing. We are right at a year old now and have been in the trailer about 60 days.

[dkottum]

casey, we are have been in ours 1,200 nights the last five years and have long ago given up on the Atwood water heater bubble idea of taking up excessive pressure. We put in a water pressure accumulator and turn off the water heater when not being used.

We also routinely restore that water heater bubble each time we hook up to external water. Make sure the water supply hose is drained before hooking to the Airstream, open the bath hot water faucet, THEN turn on the external water spigot at the campground connection. This will send the column of air in your water hose into your hot water heater. When water comes out the bath hot faucet an air bubble is back into the water heater and you're good to go. You can also do this routine anytime hooked to external water supply.

[Zybane]

Yup, that was it. Tested today and left the hot water heater on electric. Sure enough, one of the PEX clamps on the elbow just before the toilet inlet fitting is leaking due to the over-pressurization of the water system.

So that's the second PEX fitting leak I've had since I bought the trailer five months ago. Not very reassuring with these connections!

Maybe I do not have an air bubble in my hot water heater... The PEX fittings are real easy to fix there, I'm so glad it's not a roof leak!

BTW, for those asking about the heat pump. The water will only drain down the hose and into the wheel well when it's in cool (AC) mode. This is due to the evaporator coil cooling down from inside. When you are in heat-pump mode, the condenser coil outside is converted to an evaporator coil and the water will drip off the roof.

Kinda sucks though keeping the water heater off all the time, you have to plan showers and remember to turn it on about a half hour before hand.

I think I'll just get an accumulator and maybe put it behind the toilet seat since I have to work on that area anyway. At the very least I hear it helps with the water pump pulsing which is kinda annoying.

[caseywsj]

Looks like a pressure accumulator is in our future too. We do routinely restore the heater bubble each time we hook up. Now we will be turning off the water heater until we use it ... which is inconvenient. Will make a point of taking a look at all the plumbing fittings I can see! Lots of great tips from this forum! Thanks.

[graysailor]

Developed a leak in my fresh water tank. Cracks round the fittings. Been waiting 3 weeks for the mother ship to send out a new tank.

[terryg]

We just completed a two month round robin around the U.S. with our 2016 Classic. Here's a brief recap of the issues we encountered:
1) The doorbell cover fell off. The cover had not been properly installed at the factory.
2) The toilet paper holder fell out when my granddaughter tried to replace the toilet paper roll. Machine screws had been used to install the holder instead of wood screws and they had been over-torqued at the factory.
3) My spouse opened a closet door and the handle fell off. Same issue as the TP holder.
4) The converter quit working. Since the Airstream is under warranty I called the closest Airstream dealer, told them I was on the road and needed a quick repair. They said "We can get to you in in six weeks." I called and emailed JC, left a voicemail and an email message stating I was on the road and needed some immediate tech support. Four days later I received an email from them asking if my problem had been resolved. I ended up pulling the converter out, tightening all the connections (I found one screw on the floor when I pulled the cover off), and reinstalling the converter. Fortunately, it worked.
5) The power jack quit working, but it was quickly fixed by tightening the grounding screw.
6) The air conditioning vents routinely fell out. I'm still working on a fix.

After owning a new 2008 Airstream, none of these issues surprised me. It took me a couple of years before I got all the factory bugs worked out of it. What did surprise me was the lack of dealer/factory support while I was on the road. My hometown dealer in Spokane, WA is great and he will always drop everything to help an Airstreamer on the road with a problem. Overall, I'm really happy with the trailer. I don't know that I would recommend an Airstream to someone that isn't handyman qualified, though.

As a side note, I took the factory tour on this trip. Our guide made a big deal about how well Airstreams are selling and how they are increasing production and hiring new people. I pulled him aside and asked him how long it takes to train new hires. He said not long at all, just hand him/her a tool, watch'em for a day or two, and they're good to go. Hmmm.

[Zybane]

Yes, what most people call "Factory bugs" I call poor quality control or lack of any skilled training/care whatsoever. Aitstream basically takes farm boys, hands them a tool and says "hey do this" with no oversight.

Your machine screw into wood is a perfect example. Anyone with an IQ above 60 knows you don't put a self tapping machine screw into wood. My front dinette seat was basically just sitting there unsecured due to the same thing.

Another thing that has scared me recently is I've found out that the entire floor perimeter of the Airstream, from the black curved exterior belly pan to the first longitudinal structural joist is completely un-insulated. Also above the spare tire area. Literally ~40% of the total floor area the only insulation between you and the outside is a sheet of plywood. Now I know why skirting is such a big deal with Airstreams and why it takes a 35K BTU furnace to heat ~240 square feet!

This early winter I have a feeling I am going to be doing considerable modifications to the tank/underbelly area. Yes, I know Airstreams aren't billed as 4-seasons campers, but zero insulation?

[dbusse]

I had the same issue with the A/C vents. I found that their CNC router leaves a tab to snap out the slug. The little residual tab was the culprit. I filed each on flush. No falling vents ever since.

Dan
2016 Classic
WBCCI 14004

[Zybane]

You guys may also want to check the electrical cable grommets around the hitch/battery box area. The one just besides the battery box underneath leading out from the frame rail to up under the sofa on mine was unplugged.

Apparently, someone ran two small wires in the main grommet hole that holds the main 12v bus cable. Instead of taking the 10 seconds to run the wire through the grommet, they popped the grommet out and ran the two wires outside the grommet, so that the grommet could no longer seat and left it like that. This was 100% intentional by whoever did this. I had my main 12v BUS cable chaffing up against the edge of the frame rail hole cut-out. Over some years, this could have lead to a fire. I'm finding more and more of this dangerous "Airstream" quality.