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05-07-2015, 03:53 PM
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#621
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3 Rivet Member
2020 30' Classic
2016 30' Classic
Covington
, Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 203
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Is it possible to properly torque and/or remove the lugs with an 18 V torque wrench? If so, do you of you have brand and model recommendations with estimated cost?
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05-07-2015, 05:08 PM
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#622
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Rivet Master
2015 30' Classic
2012 28' International
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,708
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WHEEL SEPARATION. I've given a lot of consideration as to whether or not I should post this, but in the interests of our community, I think I should. Some of the back-and-forth on wheel torque for the 16" wheels is due to wheel separation on my new Classic that occurred on 17 April. (Those of you who know me, know I'm very mechanically inclined and hyper-methodical when it comes to my trailer.) Anyway, we were headed to the Outer Banks on 17 April. About 5 miles west of Rocky Mount on Hwy 64, at 62 MPH I felt a bump...not huge, but a bump. No alarm from my TPMS. About 30 seconds later, a guy pulls up next to me honking and waving his arms, pointing toward the trailer. I look in the rearview mirror and see wheel moulding trim sticking out from the SS. Find a safe spot, pull over. No left side forward wheel. It looked as if the wheel had been completely sheared from the studs. I call Good Sam Roadside Service (I've had this since 2011, but never used it.) He listens to the issue, makes sure I'm safe and says, "will call you back within 10 minutes." He does, and directs me to a shop in Rocky Mount that can get me back on the road. Only $74 for wheel removal and broken stud removal. He inserts new studs (which he cautioned me were NOT the right ones for an aluminum wheel), mounts steel wheel spare and 90 minutes later I'm back on the road. The guy who did the repairs said that in his 30 years of working on wheel separation, most of the time it was due to a wheel being overtorqued. Total damage, wheel, tire, entire lower SS panel, trim, labor is just under $8,000. (I am very lucky, as I have an awesome dealer -- Out-of-Doors Mart who will make my trailer as close to perfection as it can be.) Was at Region 3 rally in Ladson, SC over last weekend and I had a steady stream of visitors inspecting the damage. Why I am sharing all this: there is a CLEAR INCONSISTENCY IN THE PROPER TORQUE SETTING FOR 16" WHEELS. The brand new Airstream Classic Owner's manual does NOT agree with what the service center is saying (125-135 lbs). I also had significant problems with the stock lug nuts, and replaced many of them with McGard's. What I learned from a number of "wheel experts" -- (and I'm sure there will be lots of others who'll comment) -- a) aluminum wheels present a special challenge, b) there is a big difference in lug nuts, c) you have to learn how to torque wheel nuts, d) the wheel studs in Airstream wheels are an unusual size, e) a Dill TPMS system will tell you if you have a tire problem, but not a wheel separation (unless you notice that you're no longer getting a reading from one of your tires), f) an Airstream CAN run safely on 3 wheels. I also learned that the only person who would step up and pay for this would be yours truly and his insurance company. Finally, I am very lucky that my wheel -- traveling 62 MPH -- didn't end up in someone's windshield. Finally, I do NOT need to learn a lesson twice, and I don't want any of you to learn my lesson either. WE NEED A CLEAR, UNEQUIVOCATED TORQUE SETTING FOR LUG NUTS ON 16" ALUMINUM WHEELS FOR 2015 CLASSIC TRAILERS. Barry
__________________
_________________
"SilverLeaf II" 2015 30' Classic
2019 RAM 2500 Limited 4x4 CC w/6.7L Cummins
ProPride 3P
AIR# 58452
WBCCI # 3430-Unit 21
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05-07-2015, 06:08 PM
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#623
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Barry, I rotated your photo, and here is an "after" photo of SilverLeaFII, nearly completed:
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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05-07-2015, 06:43 PM
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#624
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Moderator
2006 19' International CCD
Olathe
, Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAB
WHEEL SEPARATION. I've given a lot of consideration as to whether or not I should post this, but in the interests of our community, I think I should. Some of the back-and-forth on wheel torque for the 16" wheels is due to wheel separation on my new Classic that occurred on 17 April. (Those of you who know me, know I'm very mechanically inclined and hyper-methodical when it comes to my trailer.) Anyway, we were headed to the Outer Banks on 17 April. About 5 miles west of Rocky Mount on Hwy 64, at 62 MPH I felt a bump...not huge, but a bump. No alarm from my TPMS. About 30 seconds later, a guy pulls up next to me honking and waving his arms, pointing toward the trailer. I look in the rearview mirror and see wheel moulding trim sticking out from the SS. Find a safe spot, pull over. No left side forward wheel. It looked as if the wheel had been completely sheared from the studs. I call Good Sam Roadside Service (I've had this since 2011, but never used it.) He listens to the issue, makes sure I'm safe and says, "will call you back within 10 minutes." He does, and directs me to a shop in Rocky Mount that can get me back on the road. Only $74 for wheel removal and broken stud removal. He inserts new studs (which he cautioned me were NOT the right ones for an aluminum wheel), mounts steel wheel spare and 90 minutes later I'm back on the road. The guy who did the repairs said that in his 30 years of working on wheel separation, most of the time it was due to a wheel being overtorqued. Total damage, wheel, tire, entire lower SS panel, trim, labor is just under $8,000. (I am very lucky, as I have an awesome dealer -- Out-of-Doors Mart who will make my trailer as close to perfection as it can be.) Was at Region 3 rally in Ladson, SC over last weekend and I had a steady stream of visitors inspecting the damage. Why I am sharing all this: there is a CLEAR INCONSISTENCY IN THE PROPER TORQUE SETTING FOR 16" WHEELS. The brand new Airstream Classic Owner's manual does NOT agree with what the service center is saying (125-135 lbs). I also had significant problems with the stock lug nuts, and replaced many of them with McGard's. What I learned from a number of "wheel experts" -- (and I'm sure there will be lots of others who'll comment) -- a) aluminum wheels present a special challenge, b) there is a big difference in lug nuts, c) you have to learn how to torque wheel nuts, d) the wheel studs in Airstream wheels are an unusual size, e) a Dill TPMS system will tell you if you have a tire problem, but not a wheel separation (unless you notice that you're no longer getting a reading from one of your tires), f) an Airstream CAN run safely on 3 wheels. I also learned that the only person who would step up and pay for this would be yours truly and his insurance company. Finally, I am very lucky that my wheel -- traveling 62 MPH -- didn't end up in someone's windshield. Finally, I do NOT need to learn a lesson twice, and I don't want any of you to learn my lesson either. WE NEED A CLEAR, UNEQUIVOCATED TORQUE SETTING FOR LUG NUTS ON 16" ALUMINUM WHEELS FOR 2015 CLASSIC TRAILERS. Barry
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Yikes! I'm glad you were ok and your Classic can be repaired. They need to figure this one out, the manual and service center should be saying the same thing.
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05-07-2015, 07:20 PM
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#625
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
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Yes that would be beneficial if the tire pressure recommendations were a single number for all of us that migrated to the SenDel wheels. Makes one wonder if Airstream installs different hubs depending on whether there are 16" or 15" wheels to be attached.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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05-07-2015, 07:30 PM
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#626
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz
Yes that would be beneficial if the tire pressure recommendations were a single number for all of us that migrated to the SenDel wheels. Makes one wonder if Airstream installs different hubs depending on whether there are 16" or 15" wheels to be attached.
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They are all 12x2", 42mm hubs, from the 25' on up.
With that in mind, the only thing different is the wheel. Lug nuts, studs, hub and drum, and bearing assemblies are the same.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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05-07-2015, 07:51 PM
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#627
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Rivet Master
2015 28' Flying Cloud
2012 25' Flying Cloud
2007 20' Safari SE
Fuquay Varina
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 524
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Wheel Separation-BAB
Barry:
Thank you for posting your experience. The detail and subsequent analysis is helpful to those of us with the 16" Sendels and Michelins. Hopefully your post will lead to honest and specific answers for the safety of all. Your decision to share was the correct one. This alerts me to be careful as we embark on a trip soon to Wyoming and other points west. Too bad ODM does not have an outpost over there, if needed.
Tom
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05-07-2015, 08:15 PM
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#628
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,408
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2015 Classic - Owners' Thread
I know I mulled over this 3 years ago when I changed over to the Sendel wheels. My manual for my trailer says 85 ft lbs for the aluminum wheels and 95 for steel. I specifically asked Tredit for new lugs appropriate for my T03 wheel. Their answer was 125 ft lbs., but I felt uncomfortable not truly knowing the hub and stud limits. So I felt good that the 110 ft lbs torque that I decided to use was a reasonable split between Tredit's recommendation and Airstream's recommendation for steel wheel use. Especially when the borrowed torque wrench I used pretty much verified that my own technique with my cross wrench was producing about 110 ft lbs, and I had been doing that for years with my various trailers with no ill effect. If anything those of us with the older trailer should have seen some ill effects if we are over torquing. There's a lot of liability here and I for one truly believe that Airstream truly understands the torque limits of their hubs and studs. If you have an older trailer you can most likely use a lower setting and then frequently check and see how well the lugs stay put. I'm very comfortable with 110.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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05-07-2015, 08:29 PM
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#629
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3 Rivet Member
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 231
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Should the sheet in post 617 above be read as a description of the Eddie Bauer wheels and tires, rather than as a recommended torque setting, which ought to be taken from the Owners Manual?
Our 16" Sendels have been on for three years and several cross-country trips remaining tight at 110 lbs. Jackson Center used 110 lbs when we were there for service as well.
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05-07-2015, 09:02 PM
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#630
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2020 Classic 33
Box Elder
, South Dakota
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,731
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SJ even the tire shops don't depend on their air wrenches to set torque. A torque electric might be good getting them off and back on but final torque should be done with good torque wrench with the proper torque setting.
__________________
Gary
2020 Classic 33 Twin, 2019 Ram 3500 Longhorn, ProPride
NØVPN
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05-08-2015, 07:07 AM
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#631
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Rivet Master
2015 30' International
2009 27' FB International
2007 25' Safari
Currently Looking...
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,564
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Torque on 16" wheels
If one looks here
Steel Bolt Torque Specifications Table - Engineer's Handbook
it is apparent that a 1/2" stud, which I believe is what is on an AS, requires a bolt torque of 110 ft lbs if a Grade 7 bolt, or 106 ft lbs if grade 6. I doubt if AS uses a Grade 8 as these tend to rust veery easily.
The consequences of over torquing are that the bolt is stretched, the threads striped, and potential bolt failure can be a result.
While there are torque limiting sticks Professional torque sticks, sockets, multipliers and extension bars used by tire shops, I prefer to use my own torque wrench and make certain the stud is not damaged.
__________________
Happy trails and Good Luck
Ms Tommie Fantine Lauer, Greensboro, NC
AIR #31871 KQ3H
www.fantinesvoice.com
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05-08-2015, 11:54 AM
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#632
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Rivet Master
2015 30' Classic
2012 28' International
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,708
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All we need is a SINGLE answer, I think...and it ought to come from Airstream. And, unfortunately, we've had several "right" answers from the company that builds and warrants (ahem!) our trailers. If they can't get together with the right answer, then I think they leave themselves open for litigation if someone has an accident and a sharp engineer points out the inconsistency of their information on wheel torque. IF my wheel had taken someone's life, I assure you I would be that person.
__________________
_________________
"SilverLeaf II" 2015 30' Classic
2019 RAM 2500 Limited 4x4 CC w/6.7L Cummins
ProPride 3P
AIR# 58452
WBCCI # 3430-Unit 21
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05-08-2015, 01:29 PM
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#633
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3 Rivet Member
2020 30' Classic
2016 30' Classic
Covington
, Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaynes755
SJ even the tire shops don't depend on their air wrenches to set torque. A torque electric might be good getting them off and back on but final torque should be done with good torque wrench with the proper torque setting.
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Thanks for your response. Do you or anyone else have recommendations for a good 18 V torque/impact wrench and a good manual torque wrench.
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05-10-2015, 12:53 PM
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#634
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4 Rivet Member
2015 30' Classic
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 285
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Airstream has put on the internet a page that you can download a owners manual for the 2015/2016 Classic (free). On page 4-2 it states that you torque your aluminum rims to 110 ft. lbs. So with that and with it in print from Airstream the torque is 110. Now let this dog sleep.
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05-10-2015, 01:12 PM
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#635
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4 Rivet Member
2015 30' Classic
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 285
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Just finished installing the Dometic central vacuum in the Classic. Somewhat easy if you know how to do things. Instruction book BAD. Unit fits in the trunk and takes little space, Power cord came up through a space under bed and reaches the outlet above the side cabinet. Hoses and stuff fits in the corner cubby under bed and wand goes in the closet. This thing has GREAT suction and cleaned up all of the dirt in not time. Highly recommend it .
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05-10-2015, 02:11 PM
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#636
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2020 Classic 33
Box Elder
, South Dakota
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,731
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SJ for the torque wrench I have one from Lowes. Goes to 250ft/lb which I need for my ProPride. Reasonable price. Also the Airstream store sells a nice one. If I didn't have the one from Lowe's I would have bought the one they offer. Had a nice price.
__________________
Gary
2020 Classic 33 Twin, 2019 Ram 3500 Longhorn, ProPride
NØVPN
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05-11-2015, 05:40 AM
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#637
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Rivet Master
2015 30' International
2009 27' FB International
2007 25' Safari
Currently Looking...
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,564
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The Serenity improves for 2016
Just something to catch some eyes....LOL. Now that we have the torque wrench thing figured out...Snap On, my choice, it is in the "Classic" tradition.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog And, only $450!
But, for those of us who purchased 2015 models before the Classic was even announced, here is a Serenity "Upgrade".... a bit rough at present, but you can see how it does improve the interior security visually. In addition to some adjustments I will be adding cellular blinds to replace the shades in place at present.
Serenity Mods 05.10.15 by Tommie Lauer, on Flickr
Be well.....
__________________
Happy trails and Good Luck
Ms Tommie Fantine Lauer, Greensboro, NC
AIR #31871 KQ3H
www.fantinesvoice.com
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05-11-2015, 06:36 AM
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#638
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Moderator
2006 19' International CCD
Olathe
, Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,224
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Nice job!
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
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05-11-2015, 11:45 AM
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#639
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Airstreaming Pagey
2015 31' Classic
Green Cove Springs
, Florida
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 342
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Having enjoyed the benefits of the custom espresso counter while at Alumalina, I too say nice job, MsMoto.😎
__________________
Page
May your days be filled with love and laughter.
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05-11-2015, 03:35 PM
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#640
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Rivet Master
2011 25' FB Flying Cloud
Anywhere &
, Everywhere
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,090
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16" Wheel Torque - 125-135 lbs
Despite the fact that Airstream has been telling people for years that the correct torque for the 16" aluminum wheels was 110 lbs and it even says that in the 2015 Classic owners manual it appears that it's wrong. My wheels were removed today and the mechanic who was working on my trailer had a chart with pictures of all the wheels used on Airstreams posted on his tool box giving the correct torque. From this chart the correct torque for the 16" aluminum wheels is 125 - 135 lbs. When he finished I asked him what he had torqued my wheels at and he said 125 lbs. So it looks like customer service has been giving out correct information.
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