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Old 07-11-2018, 03:20 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by PJohnson View Post
~~
Finally, if you plan on driving in the mountains, get a diesel. Gasoline engines lose 3% of their power for each 1000 feet of elevation. Drive west out of Denver and you will only have lost 1/3 of your power by the time you reach the Eisenhower tunnel at 11000 feet. You will be stuck in the right lane hoping to go 25 mph while the 18 wheelers pass you like you are standing still.
This is only true of naturally-aspirated gasoline engines. The turbo is what makes the difference at elevation, not the fuel.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:07 PM   #58
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My wife and I have a 2009 27'FB Classic. I first pulled it with a 1999 Dodge 2500 5.9 L gas engine. In 2012 I purchased a 2013 Toyota Tundra 5.7 4x4 Limited and I love the Toyota. It pulls the Airstream so much better than the Dodge ever did. A couple of things that I added to the suspension include: rear Toyota TRD anti-sway bar (self installed) and a set of rear suspension Firestone airbags installed by a local tire dealer. The additions were not necessary but provide extra stability that I like. The Toyota has plenty of power and I have pulled very steep mountain grades with it no problem. The Tundra now has over 70K miles and runs like new.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:24 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick1 View Post
The 1/2 tons will work, but you will be much happier towing with a 3/4 ton diesel. Payload is your biggest issue. Look at the sticker on the door jamb.
I do not know of any current production “car” that is capable of towing 9000 lbs.
Get the diesel 3/4 ton.
brick
Always include PAYLAOD in your calculations. That is what is on the truck and a 9000# T will put a minimum of 900-1100# of tongue weight on your truck. Numerous threads on this site fully explain all of this so please do your homework before committing to a ½ ton pickup that may not be configured properly for your trailer needs. And do not ask the dealership salespeople as they do NOT know for the most part what payload is.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:08 PM   #60
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We are newbies with a 2017 classic , 10,000 lb gross we got the cart be for the horse and now looking for A tow vehicle. We noticed no one commented on the Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 V8 hemi w etorque - max towing 12750. We test drove it without the trailer in like the ride a lot. Also the fact that with air suspension we can adjust the height of the tongue while inside the cab to help get in and out of our rather difficult hillside driveway. Thanks Dan
Is the e-torque out and available to drive? My local dealer said he had no idea when they would be shipping.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:21 PM   #61
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Dodge Ram Hemi 4x4 vs. Ford F250 Diesel comparison

Our son worked for Chrysler (pre Fiat) so we were Dodge people. Then we bought a Ford. Both trucks were short bed with a 4 door cab. Both were comfortable rides for the long haul. Both gave us good service although the diesel consistently beats out the Dodge mileage and fuel costs.

The Dodge Hemi 4x4 towed a 27', 7500 lb. Keystone travel trailer across country. Round trip from Maryland northwest to Idaho and then south through Utah to Tuscon and back across through Texas and Louisiana. Highways, gravel roads, mountains, desert and beach! Best case mileage was about 13 mpg. More often it was 8-9 mpg. The Hemi also requires the use of Premium Gas which is typically more expensive than diesel fuel.

Our current truck is a 2012 Ford F250 diesel 4x4 and we towed a 33 ft. 5th wheel weighing about 10,000 lb. across country (again)! Our mileage was consistently 14-17 mpg. When it is used as a daily driver our mileage tops out at 22 mpg highway.

We bought our second AS project trailer (1988, Excella 29) this past winter and towed it home from St. Louis the first week of January. This was the snow, ice and frigid week. Temps were 17 deg below zero in Ohio! The towing was all highway and the Ford towed like there was nothing behind it. The mileage was consistently around 18 mpg. This trailer is considerably lighter than the 5th wheel!

The diesel is more expensive and may seem like overkill; but the cost of ownership has been very low (no issues) and the life of the diesel will probably outlast us.

The extra margin the diesel gives us in capacity, safety and endurance is worth the extra up front cost.

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Old 07-11-2018, 06:54 PM   #62
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Don't make the mistake I made and thought a F250 would pull the 9000 27FB Classic. Boy was I wrong. KNOW WHAT YOUR PAYLOAD IS AND CHECK THE DOOR COLUMN. The tire inflation label is the only place the trucks payload is identified. NO all F250's are NOT alike. Everyone has its own payload based on options. Just remember that the 27FB has a tongue weight of about 1250 with full propane, a GOOD WD hitch and loaded with all your stuff including fresh water, gray water, and black water. Now add you and your passengers 500# plus stuff in the cab (maps, water,clothes, etc) 50# for a total of 1800# with nothing in the bed of the truck. Add a cap (200-300#) camping gear (chairs, grill, Propane, generator, fishing gear, Bicycles etc now you payload is 2300-2800#+/-. Sorry, only the stripped down F250 can handle this payload. Add up your payload and make sure the truck you buy can handle that payload. Towing capacity is totally out of the picture. Almost any truck out there can pull an Airstream around. Payload is the restricting number. Don't make this mistake. Braking and Cooling overload can really make a bad day with any overloaded vehicle.


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Old 07-11-2018, 09:49 PM   #63
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Has anyone pulled a current model Airstream over 25' in camping configuration with both a 1/2 ton and a 3/4 ton and feels the 1/2 ton is the right choice? Not talking combined daily driver and TV usage but purely for towing your trailer.

Vintage trailers need not apply.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:11 PM   #64
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I have for many years had a 7,000# SOB that I towed with my 2002 Chevy Silverado 1500 z-71 and my wife's 2005 GMC Sierra 2500. both had 5.3 L V-8 engines. Both had trailer packages and similar tow ratings. The 2500 slightly higher. The performance of those was similar. Tow down the interstate in flat Florida at 2,000rpm and 65mph it has to down shift to get over the over passes. To do that it would then rev to 4,500 or better to maintain speed. I sold both.

We now tow with a 2018 Chevy , Silverado Z-71 with a 6.6L Duramax. Much better tow package. We also up graded the trailer to a 2019 AS Classic 30. On the interstate in flat Florida at 65mph it does about 1600 or 1700 rpm. When a over pass comes up ……………..it just goes over the hill. No change in RPM, or speed. All at 13 mpg. (The gas engine trucks would do about 8 to 10mpg. ) I really don't care about the economy as much as capability and range. I buy trucks for what they can do. Then go do it.

My daily driver is ……………….. oh! yea I don't work.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:32 PM   #65
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DKB-SATX you are right about turbo’s — now you might give us a list of all the gasoline pickups with a turbo — you might also want to let folks know about the fuel mileage of gasoline pickups vs diesel pickups.

My 30 foot 2016 Classic comes in at 10000 lbs (dry weight). The tongue weight is 773 lbs (dry weight). The truck canopy weighs approximately 200 lbs. The weight distribution hitch weighs approximately 100 lbs. As you can see, my payload without fuel, propane, water, people, etc is approximately 11000 lbs. I weigh just over 200 — as you can see, I am quite close to exceeding my 3/4 ton payload capacity. As for fuel economy, I am averaging 13.5 mpg with diesel towing my Airstream (average highway without towing is 22 mpg). I drive about 35000 miles per year and half of the is hauling my Airstream (my 2016 Classic already has 17000 miles on it).
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:16 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJohnson View Post
DKB-SATX you are right about turbo’s — now you might give us a list of all the gasoline pickups with a turbo — you might also want to let folks know about the fuel mileage of gasoline pickups vs diesel pickups.

My 30 foot 2016 Classic comes in at 10000 lbs (dry weight). The tongue weight is 773 lbs (dry weight). The truck canopy weighs approximately 200 lbs. The weight distribution hitch weighs approximately 100 lbs. As you can see, my payload without fuel, propane, water, people, etc is approximately 11000 lbs. I weigh just over 200 — as you can see, I am quite close to exceeding my 3/4 ton payload capacity. As for fuel economy, I am averaging 13.5 mpg with diesel towing my Airstream (average highway without towing is 22 mpg). I drive about 35000 miles per year and half of the is hauling my Airstream (my 2016 Classic already has 17000 miles on it).
Close to 2 million F150s since 2011 are turbocharged, was there some point you're trying to make with your snarky question? GM will add a gasoline turbo half ton for the 2019 model year, though it remains to be seen what its capabilities may be. Oh and it would take a decade or more for me to pay off the extra cost of a diesel 250/350 with the relatively small net savings on fuel of a modern DEF diesel getting 15 mpg to my 11.. Horses for courses... Some need a one-ton, some want a one-ton and some nether want nor need one. There's room on the road for all three groups.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:07 AM   #67
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"Remember that that trailer only weighs 9000 lbs when it is STOPPED. Once it begins to move the mass changes and it gets heavier."

____________________________________________



Please explain how "the mass changes and it gets heavier" upon movement.



I guess I must have missed that day in physics class.


Well the original statement holds some truth, once the velocity of the trailer approaches the speed of light. Highly dependent on the frame of reference of the observer. In this case, the selection of the tow vehicle, whether it be a CanAm modified car, 1/2 ton pickup, 3/4 ton pickup, or 1 ton pickup is moot ;-)
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:37 AM   #68
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Well the original statement holds some truth, once the velocity of the trailer approaches the speed of light. Highly dependent on the frame of reference of the observer. In this case, the selection of the tow vehicle, whether it be a CanAm modified car, 1/2 ton pickup, 3/4 ton pickup, or 1 ton pickup is moot ;-)
Heh... Yeah, pretty sure we can stick with a Newtonian frame of reference for towing considerations. And even so, the difference in mass isn't real, it's apparent "relativistic" mass. (Yes I'm being difficult now, but for Airstreams on Earth, the mass is pretty much the mass.)
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:40 AM   #69
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We pull a 27’ Classic Limited Too

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We pull a 2008 27 foot Classic Limited with the same GW. We started out using the 2011 Sierra 1500 with the 6.2L gas engine that had worked great with our smaller Bambi. It worked fine until the trip through the San Bernidino mountains. It did not have the muscle to deal with the inclines. We had switched to a Silverado 2500HD with the DuraMax diesel and Allison transmission. NO problems. The truck pulls like the Airstream isn't even there - and performs marvelously in the mountains. We talked to others who had the DuraMax and every one of them highly recommended the pairing.
2012 AS Classic FB pulled by a 2007 GMC 2500 HD Diesel LBZ engine. Absolutely NO problems in Western mountains (not hills), incline or decline. On the interstate, keeping it at 65 MPH is easy easy, with plenty of power to get around slow trucks and fantastic comfort. I would highly recommend a rear view camera that can be utilized during driving, but you are getting plenty of advice already. Nothing touches off a discussion like tow vehicles. By the way with full water and propane the front axle on the Classic was 3400 and the rear was 3150. The GMC was 4100 front axle and 3050 rear. Look beyond the light weight gassers..my two bits.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:02 AM   #70
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So which truck weighs 9000lbs? And what about TT brakes? How much more does a 3/4 ton weigh versus a 1/2 ton? 1000lbs? Actually less than 1000lbs. So most of the argument about momentum is off based on weight of TV versus TT. If you want to tow with 3/4 ton great. But base it on different argument.
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