Trying to decide on a FC 23D or a FC 25FB...

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We currently full-time in a FC 30. We LOVE it. We don't feel like it's too much trailer, and we love the room inside.

We're seriously considering getting another tow vehicle which won't be able to pull our FC 30, so we'll have to downsize our trailer to match.

Here's what we've learned about ourselves and our trailer needs in 2 months of full-timing:
- Windows are a must (hence the fact that we're only looking at Airstreams)
- We run out of fresh water WAY before our waste tanks fill (54 gal fresh, 38 grey, 38 black)
- Grey fills about twice as fast as black
- With our current tanks, we can go 1 week before we run out of fresh water, and 2 weeks before our grey fills.
- We thought we'd LOVE windows in the bedroom, but we'd be fine without them. I don't mind a "cave" feeling in the bedroom, plus it'd be warmer. I can feel the cold seep near the windows


So here are our thoughts...

FC 23D

Pros:
- great size
- super low weight
- narrower body, easier to tow
- we're fine with the corner bed. We actually dig it
- limited storage, but we think we could make it work
- we LOVE the corner bath. It's out of the way, and the sink can be used when someone else is in the bathroom. Love that
- Love the windows up front at the dinette area.
- less area to heat
- really dig the lounge/bed

Cons:
- Tiny fridge that doesn't have a dedicated freezer. I've never used a fridge like this before, anyone have any experience with stuff like ice cream/frozen chicken, etc. in the icebox? We'd probably have to modify our trailer to fit a 7-8 cu/ft fridge, which may not even be possible. We use every inch of space in our 8 cu/ft fridge/freezer right now.
- Tiny grey (21 gal) and black (18 gal) tanks. We'd have to consider combining them and running a composting toilet, but we're not really huge fans on composting toilets.
- Very little kitchen prep space

Apart from the small tanks and fridge, we want the 23D, but we're afraid those are deal-breakers.





FC 25 FB

Pros:
- lots of space
- rear dinette is cool
- really dig the lounge/bed
- wider body, more room inside (6" wider)

Cons:
- fully loaded to GVWR, they're just barely past the weight limit of our tow rig (limit is at 7100 lbs). I doubt we'll approach that number though.
- we don't need a ton of windows in our bedroom. In fact, we'd prefer fewer windows


So... we're thinking a FC 25 would be the better bet. We want to go with a FC 23D, but the fridge and small tanks are a deal breaker... unless anyone has any suggestions to sway us one way or the other.

Thoughts? Experience? Does anyone out there have real-world weight numbers for a FC 25 fully loaded?

[KJRitchie]

The rear corner bed is only 48" wide. Will you miss the queen 60" width? I've read some say the 23d corner bathroom is cramped and hard to sit on the toilet with the door shut due to leg room.

Consider a preowned 25SS if you can live with a corner bed/bath. Larger rear corner bed 54", dinette and front living area but the corner bath is cramped. 18g black but grey is about 37g. I think fresh is 37g like 25fb. Kitchen counter could be increased on a 25ss by putting in a large round sink vs using the double sink.

So there is no way to modify the E350 to store your bikes properly? Do you have to take both wheels of each bike to store?

Kelvin

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Thanks KJRitchie, I wasn't familiar with that model, it sounds perfect for us. What does SS stand for? Safari SE? 18 gal black would be doable. We'll be buying used anyway (2007-2012).

We're small people, but a wider bed is never a bad thing!

We could add a high-top fiberglass top to the van, which is still an option. We have a really cool drawer system I built in the van, but I'm thinking I'd have to take it all out to make the bikes fit like we want. And once the bikes are in there, there's no much room left to sleep in there. We still have options with the van though. We're trying to explore every option and pick the one that makes the most sense for us.

[KJRitchie]

Supposed to stand for six sleeper. 2 on the front couch, 2 on the dinette and 2 in the rear bed. While the dinette on the 25fb is great for eating its no comfortable for lounging, watching TV. Some members have taken out the curb side dinette seat and replaced with a recliner which then requires the dinette table to be modified.

Her is an example from Colonial Airstream. I think Airstream made them up to 2009.

http://www.colonialairstream.com/newinventory/7483.html

User review

https://dreamstreamr.wordpress.com/2...stream-ccd-25/

Kelvin

[Meeks]

Hey there. We have had our 2015 25FB Flying Cloud since May or so of 2015. We do trips ranging in time from long weekends to a month long so far.

Fully loaded trailer weighs in at 6620 lbs (full LP, full water tank, packed with our stuff). Others on the forum have posted weights from 6400 to 6900. I don't know how this jibes with your tow vehicle numbers but there they are! Safety is so important.

Going from a 30' wide body to a 23' non-wide body seems like a big drop in size to me for full-timing (smaller overall, smaller fridge, smaller fresh water, gray and black water tanks, less counter space, smaller bed and bathroom, etc.) but others with actual full-timing experience and who have downsized will hopefully chime in for you.

Best of luck with whichever you choose!

[explore more]

Originally Posted by Meeks

Hey there. We have had our 2015 25FB Flying Cloud since May or so of 2015. We do trips ranging in time from long weekends to a month long so far.

Fully loaded trailer weighs in at 6620 lbs (full LP, full water tank, packed with our stuff). Others on the forum have posted weights from 6400 to 6900. I don't know how this jibes with your tow vehicle numbers but there they are! Safety is so important.

Going from a 30' wide body to a 23' non-wide body seems like a big drop in size to me for full-timing (smaller overall, smaller fridge, smaller fresh water, gray and black water tanks, less counter space, smaller bed and bathroom, etc.) but others with actual full-timing experience and who have downsized will hopefully chime in for you.

Best of luck with whichever you choose!

Thanks Meeks, that's super helpful. That's definitely within our range. Our new rig will be rated to tow 7000-7100 lbs. I'm thinking a 25 will be the ticket.

Now we just need to find someone with a 25 who wants to go to a bigger unit so we can trade....

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Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Her is an example from Colonial Airstream. I think Airstream made them up to 2009.

http://www.colonialairstream.com/newinventory/7483.html

Thanks Kelvin, that's probably my favorite model ever! We definitely prefer the 25 CCD in the second link with the full front corner windows, we absolutely love those. I sure appreciate you bringing this model to light, we weren't familiar with it. I'm going to see if I can find one, as it looks like everything we like about the 23d and the 25 combined together.

We're open to other suggestions too if there are any other models out there we may not be aware of.

[KJRitchie]

Here is a link to a full time couple with a couple of kids of the modifications to their 25ss. They tow with a Tundra Sequoia (5.7L). They solved the issue with limited kitchen counter space as one of their mods

http://www.advodna.com/2014/01/2005-...al-ccd-25.html

We considered a 25ss because of the dinette and front couch/lounge but after seeing one in person we knew we couldn't live with a corner bed/bath.

Kelvin

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Thanks again, I think either the 25 SS with full front windows or the 25 FB would work nicely for us. I'm so glad you mentioned that model.

[SilverEagle6]

If the bikes are the issue, add a front mounted hitch with a Saris Superclamp ll rack.

[m.hony]

Don't take a backward step.
Keep the 30' and current tow vehicle or get another tow vehicle that can handle the 30'.

[explore more]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. We're definitely going to miss the 30', it's been amazing, but there aren't any sprinter-sized vans that can haul a 30'er, and we want a big boxy van.

We'll be posting our 30'er for sale today, and we'll begin the search for a 25ss OR 25fb. Maybe someone with a smaller trailer will be ready to move on up...

[FCStreamer]

The FC30 has a lower weight than the 30 Classic. An F150 or Yukon/Tahoe can pull a FC30 and two people with no issues. I mention this because when we looked for a trailer, having the extra 5 feet was a really big deal. Most everyone moves up, not down. I am sure you are going to be able to make it work, but after living in a 30', moving down will be very hard. A lot harder than finding the right TV.

Good luck.

[m.hony]

I tow a Classic 30 with a 1/2 ton.
It's all good.


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[Offack]

I agree with "don't downsze" until you try it. Floor plans mKe a huge difference but we found with our 23 there was no room to pass each other when attempting to move around, no room to dress in the bedroom so into the hall kitchen area, when one is cooking the other is on the bed or outside! Great in good weather...s---- when raining, bathroom was pretty good but I got a sore head hitting the ceiling in the shower.
But on the plus side, it fit anywhere I wanted to park it....real nice in state parks...tows great with the average 1/2 ton, seem to be a bit more solid.
For us, we traded it up fir a 25fb FC. The dining area is a bit uncomfortable for lounging as mentioned, but the rest of it more than makes up in space etc. we are a happy couple again. Just completed "Quaise" first coast to coast and back a couple of weeks ago, we love her!
Rick

[smlbob]

We have the 27 FC, but could easily live in the 25'. But we moved up from a 20' mainly for the more convenient bed and more refrigerator and freezer storage. Depends on your eating and cooking habits, but we love the bigger storage. And the ducted air on the 2015's are well worth it.

[m.hony]

I can't imagine trying less than 28' or 30' as long as there are 2 of us.
I wish I had a 34'.
I might could do a 23' or 25' if I were single if it had a real bathroom.
I really like the separate and distinct bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, living room. You only get that in the longer trailers.
Storage is another big thing. The longer trailers have more cabinets, drawers, wardrobes...

[KJRitchie]

The OP has very expensive mountain bikes and that seems to be a main reason for this decision. He's towed his current 30 up so rough roads after watch his youTube channel but with the 3" Dexter lift kit the bumper didn't scape. Guess he'll have to do that with a 25.

Note the tongue weight of a 25fb will be close to or exceed 1000lbs slightly. Will the new tow vehicle handle it? Are you going to miss 4x4 or does a Transit have that option?

Kelvin

[m.hony]

There is a Sprinter 4x4.


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[OTRA15]

Downsizing from 30' to 23' is a huge move, especially in volume, which is a parameter usually not focused on, but you feel it inside each trailer. "Cramped" translates to not-enough-volume around me basically IMO.

I would spend some serious time in each design you are considering. Minimize analysis paralysis and go sit inside your dream trailers -- it will be time well spent, for which there is no substitute IMO. The 23' will seem cramped in my opinion, especially if you bring some bulky items with you that approximate what you want to travel with (like empty suitcases, or duffel bags with pillows inside to puff them up, etc.).

They say that many purchasers start small but eventually end up going larger. Buy the trailer you will want 3 years from now IMO.

We went from 25' to the new FC20, and are happy with the move, but our needs are different. We definitely miss the separate bedroom, but such is life -- compromises all over!

Good luck.