Truck and Trailer

[SteveH]

Please don't get me wrong, I don't care what people use to tow their trailers with, although I think some of the things I've seen on here that totally disregard manufacturer's capacities and tow ratings are just plain silly. I also believe if those same people towed where, and as much as we do, they'd have a different tow vehicle, and I'm not talking about 1/2 ton trucks.

Yes, we have big differences, and if I could, I would drive a 1/2 ton, but with the weight of my trailer, it's just not gonna happen. The gross on the trailer is 11,500 with a weighed tongue weight of 1,150. A 1/2 ton is just more pleasant to drive, especially around town.

But about the stopping thing, think of this way, what will stop, drive, and handle better with the same 1250lb load, a 1/2 ton, or a 3/4 ton?

I know some people who tow 34's with a 1/2 ton, but they are earlier, lighter weight, non-slide out models, and they don't go as much or where we go.

[m.hony]

Yes, you are correct- my truck would not pull your trailer-
People who pull with less than a 1/2 ton truck are also convinced that they are totally safe and responsible- and they may be, but their tow vehicles won't pull your trailer or my trailer.
My combination is actually a very sweet match- I am totally ecstatically happy. The only thing I really feel would improve it marginally would be a ProPride, but I'm broke-

[kevinkatz]

what about the discussion of the bus with orphans. we havent discussed that yet, or the warranty.

[m.hony]

I really don't believe I've endangered the orphans or voided the warranty- now both the truck and trailer are totally out of warranty- 8 year old truck, 2 year old trailer, but the orphans are absolutely safe around my truck 'n' trailer-

[J. Morgan]

Yep, that is a heavy trailer.

Steve, your trailer weighs as much as my truck and trailer combined.

Details like that change things.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[bwoodtx]

Well just to confuse things even more and offer my own "expert" opinion, I have the following to offer.

I have a 1997 31W wide body. GVWR is 8300#. I have towed this trailer with three different vehicles- 1/2T, 3/4T and 1T. I will throw out the 1T and compare the other two. I used the same WD hitch set up with both the 1/2 and 3/4.

Would the 1/2 pull the trailer? Yes, however it was not comfortable stopping, in the hills going down and on the interstate. Overall my 3/4T is much more comfortable to tow with with reference to stopping and the general feeling of being in "control". I do not believe I would ever tow anything above 25' with a 1/2T.. Now a days a 25' weighs almost as much as my 31'. JMTC.

[Lara Me]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

Towed through the mountains of Colorado, Utah and Nevada just fine. 45-50 up the steepest grades.

That's one of the biggest reasons I bought the 2500 diesel. Last thing I want to be is the guy doing 45-50, wringing his engine out as he hopes to keep pace with the semi hauling triple loads, chugging along "I think I can, I think I can..."

AS salesguy said the Ford 150 ecoboost would tow the 28 just fine for my needs. BS. Did that once with another rig. Towing a 2000lb trailer stuffed with a heavy touring motorbike, up the Siskiyous, at the limit of published tow capacity and a hundred pounds over payload, foot pegged to the floor on the inclines, and worrying about brakes on the declines, plus the strain on transmission, engine, and my nerves. Would it tow? Yes. Would I repeat said trip? Never again.

The 2500 6.7 Cummins means I just don't even worry about whether I can tow safely with 2 motorbikes in the bed and the 28 fully loaded, up the mountain passes, or worry about stopping or overheating. It's just not even a concern, and with the engine brakes, extra HD capacity, cooling, and loads of torque, I'm the guy doing 65+ up those passes, keeping up with traffic. (and yes, I upgraded to 16" rims with Michelin LT tires, so it can safely go 65+, where those speeds are allowed).

There's no such thing as too much truck.

[J. Morgan]

There is a difference in towing a 20,000 lb trailer and towing a typical Airstream, new or old.

I wouldn't tow a 20,000 pound trailer with anything smaller than a one ton, but I think a one ton would be too much truck for my trailer.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Yep, that is a heavy trailer.

Steve, your trailer weighs as much as my truck and trailer combined.

Details like that change things.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

Yes, J., the newer model trailers are much heavier than the earlier models, especially the S/O's. Ours is the dinette slide, but for a while they made a couch slide (longer slide), and it is even heaver and has a weighed tongue weight of 1300lbs. A member in our unit has one, and we weighed it a while back. He tows it with a long wheelbase 1 ton Ford with a V10 engine.

Here's a weight ticket for my rig that I got for licensing purposes when I brought the trailer back from California, and it was virtually empty.

[SteveH]

And here's another tidbit about my rig, I have looked it up by VIN, and it has a max towing capacity of 9600lbs, which technically I am exceeding by up to 1500lbs loaded.

However, if you look up the identical truck on Ram's Towing Capacity Chart, same model, body, be length, gear, 4X4, and engine, it has a max towing capacity of 14,800lbs. No one can tell me why, but I'd like to know.

[tjdonahoe]

It amazes me that one would purposely be under powered and over loaded pulling a trailer on today's highways!!....

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

It amazes me that one would purposely be under powered and over loaded pulling a trailer on today's highways!!....

Who's under powered and over loaded?

[J. Morgan]

I think the towing capacity assigned by manufactures is pretty much nonsensical.

I think there is credence in the amount of weight that is allotted to rest on the vehicles wheels, hitch, and suspension, but IMO the weight of the trailer is essentially none of the TVs concern.

This point of view requires that excellent trailer brakes are part of the equation.

Just an opinion that I have developed over decades of working with using, modifying, and speccing one tons to safely tow trailers.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

It amazes me that one would purposely be under powered and over loaded pulling a trailer on today's highways!!....

You might assume that my 5.3 1/2 ton is overloaded and underpowered, but that does not make your assumption correct. (You know It is an assumption right?)

I will grant that my truck wont pull as well as well as the diesels or V10s commonly found in modern trucks, but I can drive from Little Rock AR to Tucson AZ and back and never encounter a hill that will make me drive below 70 MPH.

That is good enough for me.

As far as the overloading goes, with W/D, there is not the slightest chance that my truck has ever even approached an overloaded condition.

Even without W/D my headlights hit the pavement quite well thank you!

Now if I lived in Billings Montana, and I drove the Montana roads often I might see things differently. But I don't.

Climbing an 8% grade south of Globe AZ my low speed was about 37mph.

Kinda slow, but fast enough that there were no big trucks running away from me, on the contrary....

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[SteveH]

Yes, trailer brakes are definitely a big part of the equation, however, I learned by force last summer there is a big difference in loosing trailer brakes while towing, and towing knowing you have no trailer brakes.

While we were on a trip to Northern California for a relative's wedding, we were returning thru Idaho when our Actibrake electric over hydraulic brake actuator failed. You do not find one of those at your local RV place or auto parts store, and we needed to get home.

So, we proceeded home, on mostly Interstate highways, and thank the Lord for the engine brake in the truck as most of the time, that's all that was needed. My only real concern was going thru Denver because I knew the traffic would be stop and go, bumper to bumper, so I found a route around it over to Lymon, CO, and down US 285. What I did in traffic was to make sure I traveled at least 5mph slower than everyone else which almost guaranteed me a large safety margin space in front of me, and drove watching for tail lights ahead. Fortunately, my system worked out, and we made it home OK.

I do not want to do this again, and because of this if I had my choices, I would have electric brakes, but to change at this point would require changing everything including axles, I am told.

[J. Morgan]

One of my preeminent rules at work is that no truck leaves the lot without the trailer brakes being verified as working.

The only time I have towed either of my Airstreams without working brakes was when I first purchased them.

Like you I chose my route carefully, and then executing the movement on a Saturday.

I run about a dozen trailers with elec/hyd actuators, so I do know the difficulty in trying to find these units on short notice.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by Wayward

Right. But by clicking on other 1/2 ton models it looks like tires and gearing are the primary factors there - both of which can be changed to give an extra margin of safety.

For example....... the factory spec'd towing capacity on my base model 1/2 ton truck is only 2000lbs while other models that year went as high as 8800lbs. I found the primary differences were transmission gear ratios, axle ratios and tires. I changed the gearing and tires, and have no issues towing the Airstream whatsoever.

Jumping to a 3/4 ton truck for a few hundred pounds more payload is not something a lot of people want or need to do.

What worked best for us was to ask the dealer to let us hitch up and drive a short distance (for us) to a hilly area test drive ... and a commercial scale. Then you will be armed with the information to make a decision - without the bias introduced by me or others on the various RV forums. We had an F150 (in various trims / models / engines) for almost 50 years. Then came the AS and we were below 45mph on many of our favorite mountain passes ... downhill with the AT was not the same as when "bare" with just a topper. So, we tried out a 3/4 diesel with exhaust brake and for a variety of reasons would not go back. We got more than a few hundred pounds difference in payload !!! (However, although the 3/4 by itself is not a great deal more than the 1/2 base price - model for model, there is a considerable difference in price if you opt for the diesel engine)

Tow capacity and axle ratings aside, we'd prefer the softer ride for the AS provided by a 1/2T, but prefer the safety and allowance for margin of error provided in the 3/4T - PARTICULARLY the axles, exhaust brake, wheels / hubs & bearings, tires, and brake pads. YMMV, however, depending upon your needs and finances. We are fortunate to have another vehicle for running errands around town but the newer diesel's fuel efficiency rivals our jeep that is only a few years old... and, except for parking spot sizing - really like the truck's ease of entry / exit and creature comforts! As I've said before, we were quite happy with the Ram 2500 Cummins UNTIL the EPA mandated recalls; now, we are driving another brand of diesel 3/4 T.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

You might assume that my 5.3 1/2 ton is overloaded and underpowered, but that does not make your assumption correct. (You know It is an assumption right?)

I will grant that my truck wont pull as well as well as the diesels or V10s commonly found in modern trucks, but I can drive from Little Rock AR to Tucson AZ and back and never encounter a hill that will make me drive below 70 MPH.

That is good enough for me.

As far as the overloading goes, with W/D, there is not the slightest chance that my truck has ever even approached an overloaded condition.

Even without W/D my headlights hit the pavement quite well thank you!

Now if I lived in Billings Montana, and I drove the Montana roads often I might see things differently. But I don't.

Climbing an 8% grade south of Globe AZ my low speed was about 37mph.

Kinda slow, but fast enough that there were no big trucks running away from me, on the contrary....

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

Very well said ...but western Montana has even more mountainous terrain! Glad to see that some folks understand our dilemma ... especially on the winding passes where the 18 wheelers are not happy piling up behind an AS going 45 ...

[ROBERT CROSS]

Oh Happie Daze....sure am glad I started Stream'n before joining the Circus.

Bob

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by SteveH

And here's another tidbit about my rig, I have looked it up by VIN, and it has a max towing capacity of 9600lbs, which technically I am exceeding by up to 1500lbs loaded.

However, if you look up the identical truck on Ram's Towing Capacity Chart, same model, body, be length, gear, 4X4, and engine, it has a max towing capacity of 14,800lbs. No one can tell me why, but I'd like to know.

One is conventional tow and one is 5er. The real limit is still the tires/wheels. DOT cares not at all about things like GVWR. That's the recommendation to operators. Put together by a junior engineer with spreadsheet and an algorithm. Respect the numbers in one sense, but don't be slave to it. The real concern is tire loads. All else is secondary.


from the AIRphone