Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-09-2015, 12:39 AM   #197
3 Rivet Member
 
2017 27' International
Fall City , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
How can you be overweight if the truck hitched weight is the same as the unhitched weight?

Imo, if WD takes weight off of the truck, it does not count toward payload capacity.

Am I wrong? If so, why?


In any case,,, 17 pounds ain't going to be a problem.

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
I think that's right, JP. The WD transfers weight from the rear axle of the TV to both the front/rear TV axles, plus the trailer axles. I've read the amount is approx. 20%, sometimes more.

But a WD hitch doesn't change the hitch weight (the weight on the tongue of the ball). That number still needs to be within the rating of the hitch. Some hitch carriers enable WD hitches and publish different ratings for when using WD hitches, some don't.

The RAM 1500 has a class IV hitch rated at 1klbs. The 2500 has a class V hitch, rated at 1200lbs. My 28' is rated at 975lbs of tongue weight, a bit too close for comfort for me with a class IV hitch. Plus I frequently tow the trailer short distances without the WD bars, like when I am getting service or headed on short trips (or when I accidentally leave the retaining clips for the bars on my bumper and they go missing...). Point being, I don't always engage the WD and don't necessarily want to be a slave to it. It's there to help handling, not make the difference between being within payload ratings or not.

Back to payload. The RAM 1500 ranges from 1500-1700lbs for the quad cab. Stick with the higher number, then subtract 4 passengers at 150lbs ea. Now subtract 4 bicycles, or in my case, 2 250lb dirt bikes. Then anything else you have in your bed, like a generator or chairs or fuel or BBQ etc. In short order, you've reduced available payload to 700lbs. You NEED a WD hitch to get back to the published limits when towing anything larger than a 23' AS, or you have to jettison cargo (or passengers!) We always travel with 4, so dirt bikes have to go.

But how much weight is actually transferred with a WD hitch? I think only about 20% of the amount without a WD hitch, so in my case, maybe 200lbs. That's still over the published limits, and even ditching cargo puts me right at the line.

That's a main reason I chose the 2500 3/4 ton, which adds almost 1k of additional payload, meaning I don't have to worry, with or without a WD hitch.

Clearly reading other posts, lots of folks believe published payloads are not max limits but perhaps merely a manufacturer's legally tolerable limits. Ok, power to them. I'd rather personally not guess since I lack the engineering background on any particular TV to know better, but if folks feel warm and fuzzy with their decision, who am I to judge?

But let's perhaps be clear when communicating to newbie, asking the question "Can my vehicle tow a [blank size AS]" that our suggestions may depart from manufacturer published recommendations, and represent our personal opinions/experiences. And IMHO, payload is critical issue to younger AS wannabes, who are more apt to push the payload criteria with their families and outdoor gear, and probably don't appreciate the technical considerations, especially if this is their first big trailer.

BTW, at the risk of beating the dead horse back to life, I'll say it again about the 3/4 truck choice. It is clear to me, objectively, that in addition to increased payload and tow capacity, the bigger trucks provide increased cooling, increased braking capacity, increases suspension upgrades, and increased transmission capability, not to just deal with the extra weight they impose, but to meet the demands of actually having to tow the incredible tow limits they are capable of (up to 20k or more pounds). Of course they will have improved braking and cooling capacity when towing the same load as the 1/2 trucks especially up steeper inclines, they were built to do precisely that.
__________________

__________________
2014 28' Flying Cloud
2013 Ram 2500 Laramie Crew Cab CTD 4x4
Lara Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 01:11 AM   #198
3 Rivet Member
 
2017 27' International
Fall City , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 232
Not related to the above, but I will say, choosing a long bed crew cab was a good decision. I can haul dirt bikes (the shorter 6' bed required the tailgate lowered, which won't work when towing the AS as the tailgate impacts the LP tank guard when turning hard.

Plus, the super long wheelbase helps ensure a smoother ride. It does have an awful turning radius, and makes for fun backing up because it the truck is slow to respond to turning the wheel compared to shorter wheelbase trucks. But rolling down the highway, no need for sway control for sure. The WD really just eliminates the seesaw effect when going over dips.
__________________

__________________
2014 28' Flying Cloud
2013 Ram 2500 Laramie Crew Cab CTD 4x4
Lara Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 10:36 AM   #199
Rivet Master
 
tjdonahoe's Avatar
 
2013 31' Classic
billings , Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,845
Very well put on the above articles...
__________________
tjdonahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 09:18 PM   #200
3 Rivet Member
 
Jim J's Avatar
 
2014 30' Flying Cloud
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 152
Images: 117
Blog Entries: 7
Good Catch Mr Morgan! I need to correct the truck hitched weight. The truck picks up 780 lb of tounge weight of the 980. The other 200 goes back on to the trailer wheels when hitched.

Hitched weights
Truck 6800 lbs
Trailer 7100 lbs.

Total 13,900 Lbs

Unhitched weights
Truck 6020 lbs
Trailer jack 980 lbs
Trailer tires 6900 lbs
Total 13,900 lbs
__________________
Jim J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 05:54 AM   #201
Rivet Master
 
tjdonahoe's Avatar
 
2013 31' Classic
billings , Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,845
I would say that looks good. My experience is you don't want the trailer out weighing the TV by much,and it looks as if you have a good match.
__________________
tjdonahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 08:04 AM   #202
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim J View Post
Good Catch Mr Morgan! I need to correct the truck hitched weight. The truck picks up 780 lb of tounge weight of the 980. The other 200 goes back on to the trailer wheels when hitched.

Hitched weights
Truck 6800 lbs
Trailer 7100 lbs.

Total 13,900 Lbs

Unhitched weights
Truck 6020 lbs
Trailer jack 980 lbs
Trailer tires 6900 lbs
Total 13,900 lbs
Jim, I would add it would be a good thing for you to know the tow vehicle's front axle weight unhitched, and with the trailer hitched, to see how effective your weight distribution hitch is set for returning the weight.

Since you say "truck", I'm assuming you have a pickup truck, and it has been my experience the rig will drive better if the front axle is returned to the unhitched weight with the WD hitch, when the trailer is hitched, and loaded for a trip.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 10:18 AM   #203
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Recognizing the the problem is often Airstream hitch weight, which has evolved well beyond the 10% needed for good handling and sway resistance, the other way to approach this problem is to lighten the Airstream hitch weight.

Lighter hitch weight, less issue with the payload restrictions of the tow vehicle.

We have been looking into this alternative solution here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...er-129709.html
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 10:50 AM   #204
Rivet Master
 
Moflash's Avatar
 
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,171
Tongue weight is constant and does not magically disappear with a WD hitch.The WD hitch helps distribute the load but the load is still there.Its like a wheelbarrow in effect.Do some reading to concur.
__________________
Moflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 02:08 PM   #205
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,046
Images: 11
Truck and Trailer

Weight does not "magically disappear", it is moved via leverage.

The point is,,,

That some of the weight IS taken off of the TV with a WD devise.

Granted some of this is transferred forward to the front axle, but some of it is put on the trailer wheels.

There is no doubt at all that I can make the rear axle of my TV too light if I crank my jacks up too high.

I have weight tickets that tend to prove this.

I say tongue weight that is no longer on the TV should not be applied to payload.

If this contention is wrong, then why is it wrong?


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 02:32 PM   #206
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,603
Images: 1
It is correct. The rule of thumb for plan purposes is that with 100% FALR that 20-25% of TW will transfer to TT axles. A ratio of two to one, approximately, where two pounds is to steer axle and one to trailer.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 05:02 PM   #207
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Just my opinion here with a little bit of conservatism thrown in, but if you have to consider the amount of the hitch weight that is distributed back on the trailer to get your tow vehicle weight under the max, you might have too light of a tow vehicle.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 05:39 PM   #208
Rivet Master
 
tjdonahoe's Avatar
 
2013 31' Classic
billings , Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,845
A person could move the batteries to the rear of the trailer along with the propane tanks like that one dude,and I am out of popcorn,I guess I better go out and plow some more snow..
__________________
tjdonahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 05:44 PM   #209
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
You could also do away with the propane, use only electric, and fill the propane bottles with helium.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 06:59 PM   #210
Rivet Master
 
tjdonahoe's Avatar
 
2013 31' Classic
billings , Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,845
Yea ! that would save 4 lbs per gallon,and the batteries far behind the rear axle thus lifting the tongue somewhat. I think in will have another glass of pre mixed egg nog.
__________________

__________________
tjdonahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trailer Tires vs. Truck Tires ON Trailer jvcolaizzi Tires 34 11-21-2014 06:26 PM
Truck and trailer worked great, but all toys broke Lothlorian Off Topic Forum 4 06-29-2012 12:57 PM
New Reese System for old truck and Trailer JLD Hitches, Couplers & Balls 12 03-17-2003 08:46 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.