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08-13-2014, 10:22 PM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
Monroe
, Washington
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7
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Parasitic electrical flow
I was talking to someone at a campground this week and complaining about my batteries running down to 50% of capacity in 3 days. He happened to have a Fluke clamp-on DC ammeter. We opened the battery compartment and put the ammeter on the positive lead and measured a few conditions. It turned out that the refrigerator draws 1 ampere all the time when running on LPG. I think that there is a LPG solenoid that has to be activated.
The LED reading lights in the bedroom draw 0.1 ampere each.
I just bought a clamp-on for my own use. I want to run some more tests when it arrives and I will post the results.
__________________
2014 FC 25' FB
2014 Ford F-150 XLT 4x4 EcoBoost V6
EQ WD Hitch
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08-13-2014, 10:47 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1986 31' Sovereign
Miami
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,137
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Your propane detector is hard wired as well and always drawing some power.
Mike
__________________
Sorta new (usually dirty) Nissan Titan XD (hardly paid for)
Middle-aged Safari SE
Young, lovely bride
Dismissive cat
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08-13-2014, 10:58 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,105
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Fridge current draw on propane
Our fridge also draws nearly an amp when running on propane.
We have a 2013 25FB. The documentation for the fridge shows that there is a small heating element that runs on 12V. It's not for the cooling system, it is for fighting condensation. I think this heater is near the door, but I am not sure.
This heater draws about 1/2 an amp.
The manual implies it runs as needed, but I think it runs pretty much all the time.
We have identified the wire that runs to this heater. We intend to insert a switch in this wire, and only turn it on if we experience a condensation problem.
By the way, we have a clamp-on meter made by Klein. I think we paid around $90. You can get clamp-on models for less, but the cheap ones don't measure DC current, only AC.
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08-14-2014, 04:06 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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check your fridge manual. mine has a switch to shut that heater off.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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08-14-2014, 07:23 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
check your fridge manual. mine has a switch to shut that heater off.
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Mine as well.
When dry camping my draw is about 1.9 amps. In addition to the propane detector, fridge board, water pump and LED lighting, I run two small 2" computer fans inside the fridge. I do shut off the outside fans, but I have found that the interior ones are necessary of I get warm and below freezing areas of the fridge when packed full.
Last week, I was able to go three plus days and was to 40% when I left that site. Don't like to go that low, but they had a no generator policy.
BTW, I found that the charge line from the truck initially supplies 15 amps, then drops off to 12 amps, presumably as the circuit warms up and resistance increases.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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09-11-2014, 09:36 PM
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#6
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1 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
Monroe
, Washington
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7
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Attached is the DC current study that I did recently with a DC clamp-on ammeter.
http://wonderfulwalter.com/current_study.pdf
__________________
2014 FC 25' FB
2014 Ford F-150 XLT 4x4 EcoBoost V6
EQ WD Hitch
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09-11-2014, 09:53 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Here are measured DC current numbers on my 2014 20' FC.
Measured with a Tri-Metric meter and 100 amp shunt.
Water heater, when flame on: .74 amp
Refrigerator, flame on: .32
Refrigerator fan only: .55
Bed lights, reading, each: .17
Bed lights, overhead, 3: dimmest .1
brightest .52
Main overhead lights, 6 dimmest .23
brightest 1.18
Step light: .06
Scare light (floodlight) .13
Table light: High .62
Low .31
Kitchen lights (either, there are 2) High .38
low .19
Bath lights (2, each with high and low) All .72
one high .38
one low .19
Every LED light inside on at the same time: 3.9 amps
Fantastic fan, each: High 1.55
Medium 1.22
Low .93
Bath fan (little, 4" round) 1.5
Kitchen range fan: 2.4
Kitchen range fan lights (halogen) 3.5
Furnace, 18,000 btuh, direct vent burner on: 3.65
fan only: 2.9
Radio, all off, no lights showing: no measure
Radio, disco lights on, no volume: .7
Radio, lights on, medium volume: .9 to 1
Propane detector: .06
Pump: (variable speed) 2-4
1000 watt sine wave inverter, on, no load 1.76
with TV and DVD plugged in, but not on: 1.76
TV on and DVD playing: 3.6
TV on DVD playing, + radio on for sound: 4.9-5.3
Very small microwave, supplied by inverter: 89
Toaster, supplied by inverter: 75
Apple Mac Book Pro, charged running from
inverter: 3.1 to 3.3
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09-11-2014, 10:08 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idroba
Here are measured DC current numbers on my 2014 20' FC.
Measured with a Tri-Metric meter and 100 amp shunt.
Water heater, when flame on: .74 amp
Refrigerator, flame on: .32
Refrigerator fan only: .55
Bed lights, reading, each: .17
Bed lights, overhead, 3: dimmest .1
brightest .52
Main overhead lights, 6 dimmest .23
brightest 1.18
Step light: .06
Scare light (floodlight) .13
Table light: High .62
Low .31
Kitchen lights (either, there are 2) High .38
low .19
Bath lights (2, each with high and low) All .72
one high .38
one low .19
Every LED light inside on at the same time: 3.9 amps
Fantastic fan, each: High 1.55
Medium 1.22
Low .93
Bath fan (little, 4" round) 1.5
Kitchen range fan: 2.4
Kitchen range fan lights (halogen) 3.5
Furnace, 18,000 btuh, direct vent burner on: 3.65
fan only: 2.9
Radio, all off, no lights showing: no measure
Radio, disco lights on, no volume: .7
Radio, lights on, medium volume: .9 to 1
Propane detector: .06
Pump: (variable speed) 2-4
1000 watt sine wave inverter, on, no load 1.76
with TV and DVD plugged in, but not on: 1.76
TV on and DVD playing: 3.6
TV on DVD playing, + radio on for sound: 4.9-5.3
Very small microwave, supplied by inverter: 89
Toaster, supplied by inverter: 75
Apple Mac Book Pro, charged running from
inverter: 3.1 to 3.3
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NICE WORK!
And the 100 amp shunt gives you that extra decimal place of accuracy too.
In reference to running your gas/absorption fridge on LP, the control board will always be on and requires about 1/2 amp. when you operate on LP, the control board must supply a constant voltage to the LP solenoid to keep it open, as it's a normally closed solenoid that requires constant voltage to operate, so an amp while operating it on LP is about right.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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09-12-2014, 12:33 AM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
2004 16' International CCD
Chicagoland
, Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idroba
Here are measured DC current numbers on my 2014 20' FC.
Measured with a Tri-Metric meter and 100 amp shunt...
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Excellent! I'll be slipping a copy of this into my Owner's Manual. Thanks for taking the time to share all of that data.
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09-12-2014, 05:43 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
In reference to running your gas/absorption fridge on LP, the control board will always be on and requires about 1/2 amp. when you operate on LP, the control board must supply a constant voltage to the LP solenoid to keep it open, as it's a normally closed solenoid that requires constant voltage to operate, so an amp while operating it on LP is about right.
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I was surprised that this new 2014 Dometic 4 cu ft refrigerator has such a low draw(0.35 amp) in comparison to the other Dometic refrigerators I have measured. You are correct that it needs power to keep the gas valve open, but it is less that I have seen other units use. The circuit board itself also seems to have a lower power draw so maybe Dometic has been making some changes. I can only tell you what I see on this 4 cu ft unit in the FC 20.
The refrigerator fan draw of .55 amps was the original fan, not only noisy but a real energy hog. I have since replaced it with a 7" computer fan with an air flow of 120 CFM and a current draw of 0.2 amps vs. the .55 amps of the original. It is dead silent too.
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09-12-2014, 06:38 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Idroba,
Would you have the name or a link to that computer fan you put in the fridge compartment?
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-12-2014, 09:04 PM
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#12
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2 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
Matthews
, North Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltc
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The study is much appreciated! Made a copy for my files. Thanks.
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09-12-2014, 10:53 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Idroba,
Would you have the name or a link to that computer fan you put in the fridge compartment?
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I am out on a camping trip right now, but when I get home I can give you the information as I have the package it came in.
All I can say now is that it came from Fry's electronics, a big electronics superstore chain and was about $12. Once I get home I can give you the specific name and model information. I stood at their computer fan section and picked out the one with the highest CFM rating for the lowest current draw.
More later.
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09-12-2014, 11:43 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2013 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2012 20' Flying Cloud
Small Town
, *** Big Sky Country ***Western Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Thanks, Idroba !!!
__________________
2015 25' Eddie Bauer Int'l FBQ / 2023 Ford Lightning ER
2022 Ford F350 6.2 V-8; equalizer hitch + Shocker air hitch
Honda Eu3200; AIR# 44105; formerly WBCCI 2015.1
Terminal Aluminitis; 2-people w/ 3+ dogs
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09-13-2014, 01:30 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
1994 21' Sovereign
Paradise Valley
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared
Our fridge also draws nearly an amp when running on propane.
We have a 2013 25FB. The documentation for the fridge shows that there is a small heating element that runs on 12V. It's not for the cooling system, it is for fighting condensation. I think this heater is near the door, but I am not sure.
This heater draws about 1/2 an amp.
The manual implies it runs as needed, but I think it runs pretty much all the time.
We have identified the wire that runs to this heater. We intend to insert a switch in this wire, and only turn it on if we experience a condensation problem.
By the way, we have a clamp-on meter made by Klein. I think we paid around $90. You can get clamp-on models for less, but the cheap ones don't measure DC current, only AC.
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Any chance you could snap a pic or explain the location of this wire please? I have a Dometic RM2820, the manual says it has a switch under the eyebrow control panel, but it does not.
I contacted Dometic and was told that some had a switch and others did not, but of course was not allowed to tell me how to disconnect the element. I have switched to a Dinosaur board on a previous Dometic I had so I am a little familar.
I thought this would have been a hot topic on this forum due to the battery drain, but i searched and could not find much. It appears most people have the switch and just did not know it was there.
Thanks , Ken
__________________
WBCCI# 2520 AIR# 77458 Ken and Ben the Saint Paradise Valley, Arizona
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09-13-2014, 03:12 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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The power wire that enables the door heater is generally found on either the control board or if present, the fuse block.
The schematic for same will be in your manual.
Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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09-13-2014, 10:00 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,105
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Picture of heater wire
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmaggard
Any chance you could snap a pic or explain the location of this wire please? I have a Dometic RM2820, the manual says it has a switch under the eyebrow control panel, but it does not.
...snip....
Thanks , Ken
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We never got around to cutting this wire. (We got a large solar system this summer, and have had plenty of power--except for last Tuesday when it rained almost the whole day)
Note that my fridge is a different model than yours (RM 3762 here).
The wire is a light blue one, at the left end of a row of wires coming off the bottom edge of the board. In the wide shot, you can see that there is a wiring diagram pasted inside the fridge. The same diagram is in the manual.
The wire goes from P5 on the board to heating wire T.
In the detail photo, the red arrow identifies the wire.
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09-14-2014, 03:49 AM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
2004 16' International CCD
Chicagoland
, Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daboose
The study is much appreciated! Made a copy for my files. Thanks.
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Ditto to WaltC! Sorry I missed it the first time around.
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09-14-2014, 10:38 AM
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#19
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3 Rivet Member
1994 21' Sovereign
Paradise Valley
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 135
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Thanks for the help to all of you. I am headed out there now to take a look.
Looks like same location on my control board per the wiring diagram.
__________________
WBCCI# 2520 AIR# 77458 Ken and Ben the Saint Paradise Valley, Arizona
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09-16-2014, 08:52 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Idroba,
Would you have the name or a link to that computer fan you put in the fridge compartment?
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I am home now and got the information:
Cooler Master MegaFlow 200
200 mm fan, 700 rpm, 110 cfm of air flow, 30,000 hour life, 0.16 amp (I measured 0.2 amp)
I got it at Fry's electronics for about $12-15, forget the exact amount.
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