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Old 03-14-2014, 09:53 AM   #1
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Red face New floor plan? Crossbreed 27FB w/28W

I like the FB design concept of a rear living area. However I do not believe the dinette/sofa arrangement is practical for long trips. Dropping the dinette table to create a "couch" every night is impractical & not comfortable as a real couch.

I prefer the 28W design with a real L shaped couch & separate dinette. In addition, I prefer fewer windows in the bedroom for privacy, better insulation & corner cabinets. I know 27FBs have been special ordered without the wrap around front window. But this does not solve the dinette/sofa issues.

Would it be possible to flip the 28W with the bedroom forward & living area in the rear? Has this idea been discussed on other threads? Am I the only person who thinks this is a more practical floorplan?

We take 3 to 8 week trips (Alaska, Canada, Baja) on our Bigfoot trailer. We are "function" over "form" people. We are looking for a larger quality trailer. Despite my insulation concerns w/ batt insulation, metal rivets & skin, we are considering an Airstream. Thanks in advance for your constructive comments.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:14 AM   #2
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For the most part those who have FB like it for their own reasons, and those who have RB like it for their own reasons. Folks tend to like what they have, until they get something else. Then they like that.

It is extremely difficult to flip the interior arrangement (would the entrance door enter the bedroom) so forget that.

None of the trailers mentioned have really comfortable long term seating comfort (they are bench seats), as many have written and then did seating conversions. Including us.

The traditional sofa is good, and for some reclining chairs are better. Both are available in the 30' Airstream. It is rear bed but you won't find many who aren't happy with that.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:19 AM   #3
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I suppose a dinette could be placed under the TV and across from the sink in a 27FB, but only a small dinette. The lobster pot style sink juts out into the hallway about a foot, space that'll have to be subtracted from the dinette table to maintain hallway width.

When I want to stretch out, I choose to lay on the master bed with some big pillows and watch TV there. We rarely convert the table to a sofa area.
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:22 PM   #4
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Or get an Eddie Bauer 27' Airstream, unbolt and remove the the folding bench seats, then set two comfy recliners inside and make a smaller table top for the table pedestal. An easy conversion to restore to original.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:29 PM   #5
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The EB27 is a good suggestion.....an easy conversion. Other threads have pointed out that the only comfortable furniture is the sofa in the 30 footers and the recliners. I think the EB27 may be a good option. I am not sure about towing the 30. Thanks
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:00 PM   #6
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That's what I like about the Eddie Bauer least and most. Don't care for the bench seats, but the flexibility of removable dining/living furniture that leave open space to configure as desired is terrific.

It can be done with other Airstreams as well, but the EB makes it easier to remove and reinstall original furnishings.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:44 AM   #7
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For these reasons we ordered the 2014 30ft FC with recliners, awnings, 2AC, etc, could not see putting up taking down table, or spending money to convert to recliners later on. Also, had the dealer install 85 watt solar with 16" tires/ Sendel rims ( labor trade out for 15" tires. )
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:44 AM   #8
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If you do some hunting on interior mods, you'll find a number of us with the 28' have pulled out the "attractive" L seat sofa. It is attractive. It is also incredibly uncomfortable to sit on. IMHO, it's not just the foam -- in order to convert this into a bed, it's a bit wide, and a bit high. So when you sit on it, it's just not comfortable. I ended up sitting at the very end with my feet up on the short part of the "L". I pulled out the L seat last month and converted it to two recliners, also built a cabinet that's designed for use as a place to store adult beverages. As you'll see, what's left of my "L" is 1/2 of the short side -- I had to keep that as underneath is the hot water heater, front is the electrical panel. Converter and subwoofer are also partially in that space.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:13 PM   #9
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Our 2012 Eddie Bauer 27FB Dinette Conversion

We scrapped the dinette and went with 2 Lambright recliners with removable side tables. Then I created a coffee table and another dinette table for the couch over the furnace.

I reused the old 3'x4' dinette table to make 2 smaller tables. Both are removable so we can still use the back door and store large items in the Eddie Bauer rear area. The couch over the furnace is now 5' long by 24" wide to make room for the recliner and 18" x 32" table. I borrowed this idea from the PanAmerica model. This table also can be stored.

Also in the picture is KarnDean Luxury Vinyl Plank flooring I installed throughout. Its a major step up from the industrial laminate, and as its LVP its super hard were the dogs cant tear it up.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:31 PM   #10
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jasperkins, really nice job! Like how you kept that bit of couch in there as a short dinette.

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Old 03-16-2014, 02:38 PM   #11
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Thanks! We have a baby on the way and wanted to make sure we still had a place to people <5' to sleep :-) the dogs have claimed the couch for now.
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Old 03-16-2014, 04:52 PM   #12
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The creative talents and quality of the workmanship is incredible. Thanks to all.

I have spent several hours reading various threads. The AS forum is an amazing source of information. This AS community is influencing our decision to move toward a larger retirement AS trailer from our beloved Bigfoot 21FB. We are not the motor home type. I've got a lot to learn, so I shall keep reading. Again, thanks for helping a 12 year Bigfoot veteran out.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:04 PM   #13
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Apreski, I'm curious -why not a 25' Bigfoot? We had a longtime forum member who bought one and loves it.

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Old 03-16-2014, 06:02 PM   #14
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We do not care for the old 25 RB floor plan. We walked one of the new FB models (Portland) and we're shocked at the downgrade of cabinetry. The exterior fiberglass remains excellent and the closed cell foam insulation is the best in the business. We did locate a 2008 FB model with our solid wood cabinets but We were disappointed in the floor plan. No other new trailer options.

We are impressed with the numerous creative AS designs, but remain very concerned about the poor insulation design. Batt insulation compressed lowers the real R rating, metal skin, etc. The numerous threads regarding cold bedrooms confirm our fears. We love late fall camping in the Canadian and US Rockies........coyotes, moose, elk, even a wolf, very few people. However, we awaken to snow and on occasion hail, but always toasty warm in our Bigfoot 21 foot trailer. I would like something larger which requires a minimum 27 foot AS. (A 21 Bigfoot is the equivalent of a 25 AS...refrig, storage, etc.)

What to do, what to do? Head to sea level with a canopied Airstream?

Seriously, we will continue to study the forum threads to address our "how to enhance the insulation" issues.
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:14 PM   #15
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It is a trade off with insulation I suspect going with these aluminum twinkies. However as the forums noted, there are many best practices and tips and mods to make it warmer.

We spent the winter here in the Carolinas full-timing in our Airstream 27'. Many days down to the teens with snow. Our propane furnace was fine by itself. Above 40, we use our Dyson Heat Fan or HP and its very warm.

Thicker floor, insulating the storage compartment, fantastic insulation, etc., all help too. I guess what I am getting at, don't let the insulation concerns out weigh the many pros, and Airstream lifestyle.
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Old 03-17-2014, 12:43 PM   #16
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Apreski - Have you considered a custom Airstream? You can buy a new shell, or a vintage shell for much less - and have it built how you want it, including your own layout, closed cell foam insulation and nicer cabinets.
I agree re: concerns with compressed fiberglass bat. R13, when compressed, only provides like an R6.5 (google 'compressed fiberglass insulation R Value" and one of the manufacturers have a pdf on it). we went with a prodex type insulation that has R 13 down, R 9.5 horizontal and R8 up. In the floor we combined that with a 3/4" polystyrene foam (R 3.5) for a total of R16.

using tiger foam would have been the same cost, as it turned out.
Tiger Foam | Spray Foam Insulation Kits

Ah well, use that on the next trailer.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:39 AM   #17
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Red face

NJtoNC: Thx for the R Value stats and Tiger foam info. Never actually thought about a complete retro fit. Did you do one...yourself or professional shop?

Jasperkins: Your actual living experiences are very helpful. Love the Fl Keys view...could be our boat out there. We lived 12 years in Ft Liquordale, kept our Pursuit boat (essentially a floating Bigfoot) in the middle Keys....raced J-24 sailboats in Biscayne bay but owned a stink pot for scuba diving.

For the Record: We are not the type of people who complain without offering solutions. We live in the real world, attempt to deal with the problem at hand , to the best our limited abilities. The goal is not perfection but rather enjoy the simple moments and keep moving forward with your life. Translation: boon docking in a "streamer" is in our future.

Perfection: let's see....take a 28 floor plan, put the hitch at the other end (rear living area is essential....see jasperkins photo) Classic interior, no pano windows in FB, pull the L shaped couch, one of your custom recliner setups, add an EB back door and Tiger Foam the whole damn fuselage! ( Scratch what I said above about perfection)
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apreski View Post
We do not care for the old 25 RB floor plan. We walked one of the new FB models (Portland) and we're shocked at the downgrade of cabinetry. The exterior fiberglass remains excellent and the closed cell foam insulation is the best in the business. We did locate a 2008 FB model with our solid wood cabinets but We were disappointed in the floor plan. No other new trailer options.

We are impressed with the numerous creative AS designs, but remain very concerned about the poor insulation design. Batt insulation compressed lowers the real R rating, metal skin, etc. The numerous threads regarding cold bedrooms confirm our fears. We love late fall camping in the Canadian and US Rockies........coyotes, moose, elk, even a wolf, very few people. However, we awaken to snow and on occasion hail, but always toasty warm in our Bigfoot 21 foot trailer. I would like something larger which requires a minimum 27 foot AS. (A 21 Bigfoot is the equivalent of a 25 AS...refrig, storage, etc.)

What to do, what to do? Head to sea level with a canopied Airstream?

Seriously, we will continue to study the forum threads to address our "how to enhance the insulation" issues.
We spent 55 days last season from Valentine's Day to Thanksgiving in our AS (see avatar) all over the Rocky Mountains and camped "cozily" at mountain pass elevations. Unfortunately, the snow was still 2-3' drifts in our yard at our usual get out the camp trailer / early time this year; so, we didn't get out until three weeks ago this year. We camped on 3-4" of ice last weekend and when we headed for home a new snowstorm was dropping about 6" of new snow!

The biggest issue for heat loss (according to my IR meters) is not from the metal skin, but rather from the single pane glass windows. What insulation is in the sidewalls seems adequate for the majority of users and the furnace ducting near the water/sewer lines gives peace of mind if the temp drops 5-10 degrees below freezing. If you want the open feeling of an AS, there are not a lot of options to reduce heat loss from the side windows.

You could delete the skylight (if ordering ...more $$) or just insulate it as we do during the cold months, but little can easily be done to the side windows if you want easy access to them.

The single biggest "cozy" factor for us was to install removable carpet where we walk the most. YMMV, but this is our rodeo and it's the best for us. We do use considerably more propane in the winter (as would be expected) but are glad for the aluminum interior because it makes wiping down the occasional condensation quite a bit easier. I usually wipe down the moisture on the inside of the windows, however, every morning ...easiest from the outside. There is just no way to vent all of the moisture-laden air accumulated overnight easily before it condenses on the windows during cold weather camping (<30 degrees F).

If you have a spouse or significant other ... get under the comforter and let the dog sleep on top ... just a one dog night, but it keeps us very comfortable.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:11 AM   #19
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I would think you might give the 30ft Flying Cloud with recliners, full awnings, solar, and 16" tires a consideration as a "retirement rig". We looked at many in the years of research and came away with our first Airstream- the 30 ft-- where many migrate to by trading throughout the years. As they say it is nice to trailer a short one, and camp in a large one--once under way it is just a matter perspective.
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