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Old 10-12-2015, 12:04 AM   #1
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FC 20 FB bed modification-input needed

Hello all,

New here and excited to find such a vibrant community. I'm going to purchase my AS sometime in the next three months and am narrowing down options.

I'm curious whether anyone has modified the bed on the FB 20 to make it wider than 48 inches. I had a few ideas for this. The first would be to remove the closet and cut the dinette down 6 or so inches and make the bed wider on the entrance door side (maybe 62 inches) and closer to perhaps 54 on the other end (rough-not including the curvature).

If cutting down the dinette would make it too small, I considered removing the sink in the head (redundant for our purposes), shifting the bathroom wall down with the removed sink, shifting the dinette down, cutting the closet and extending the bed to a full 64ish inches on either side.

Has anyone seen or done anything like this? If so, do you have images or a link? This will be a full-time rig and am certain we don't want to go any larger-but have walked the 19's and 20's and know it definitely is possible to fit a larger bed in the 20FB with some modification.

Cheers-really appreciate any help.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:31 AM   #2
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While of course you can modify anything you want in a 20', or any other trailer, what you are proposing is a very major change which in my opinion would reduce the value of the trailer for any one else. Reversible modifications are one thing, cutting down or removing entirely the closet, changing the dimensions of the dinet, removing the bathroom sink and changing the wall (which has electrical and plumbing in it) are not just minor things. The water heater is also fixed under the dinette seat and is not going to be accessible the way it is now most likely. Changing the dinette width means the table would not fit as the platform if you ever wanted to use it as a sleeping space in the future. Structurally, removal of the floor to ceiling wall between the dinette and the bed also could compromise how the upper cabinets are supported. The "hampers" at the ends of the bed as it is now would not fit or work as they do now.

In short, you can do anything but it is not going to be easy, cheap or as useful for anyone but you, especially if it is not easily reversible.

Is a huge bed that important to you? It would take up a major portion of your trailer and cut down on your living space considerably.
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Old 10-12-2015, 12:45 AM   #3
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Having a full-time converted bed that is at least the size of a full width is pretty important for us. We are adventurers traveling for over a year and having a bed with ample room to get a good nights sleep is non-negotiable.

It sounds like the modification would be tough and rather expensive-thanks for the input @jdroba. What are my other options for a 20-and-below trailer that have a full sized bed+? Any of the earlier generation models? Thanks!
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:27 AM   #4
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Just want to ask if you have really given the 22 a serious look?

We have the 22 and the bed is the primary reason. 54 wide, and longer than ANY AS bed at any length. We find it very comfortable.

Water capacity and tow weights are quite similar.

You would be giving up the oven/stovetop to have a stovetop and fancy microwave instead, and double sink in the 20 to the smaller sink in the 22. But by getting the 22 and keeping things where they are, the structural and weight/payload would not change, so you know that the center of gravity would still be as the factory engineers intended.

Kitchen mods to the 22 would be easier and less disruptive than when you have proposed doing to the 20.

Consider the 22 and changing the kitchen vs the 20 and changing the bed.
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:02 AM   #5
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The bed was fine in our 2007 Safari SE 20. It was the living room, consisting of only of a dinette, that was too small uncomfortable and for a full time rig. Consider a 25, the space difference is dramatic and quite livable, and you will barely notice the difference towing if at all. We towed both with a 2006 Tundra 4.7 V8 which worked very well, underpowered only on the steeper mountain grades.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:04 PM   #6
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The water heater is also fixed under the dinette seat and is not going to be accessible the way it is now most likely. Changing the dinette width means the table would not fit as the platform if you ever wanted to use it as a sleeping space in the future. Structurally, removal of the floor to ceiling wall between the dinette and the bed also could compromise how the upper cabinets are supported. The "hampers" at the ends of the bed as it is now would not fit or work as they do now.
Where exactly is the water heater fixed-the seat on the bed end or the other? I'm assuming the upper cabinets could be shortened and the wall reattached. It seems as though the water heater is a pretty big obstacle to moving the dinete. Do you see any way around this? Anyone have ideas?
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:05 PM   #7
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A 25 is too large. Need to tow with a 4x4 tacoma double cab with towing package. Length is a big issue for me-will never go to a site with hookups and want to be small enough to get in almost anywhere.

A good nights sleep is critical. We originally considered converting a sprinter van ourselves and in fact went through an entire design process-don't mind cramped quarters but realized having a trailer is more of a home for a year. I'd say 54x75 is our minimum, no exceptions.

The 22 is a bit longer than the 20 and I'm not sure about that-the 20 seems absolutely perfect if we could find a way to modify the bed. Living full time with two in that bed is simply too small. The dinette as a living room is exactly what we want-don't want a lounge or anything else.

Thanks for the replies so far-very helpful. Length is the main factor we're trying to limit, while still have a larger bed. We like the finish of the FC over the sport a lot, and are willing to pay for it. I feel like others must have tried to convert to a larger bed in a FC20 FB-any other ideas? Willing to get super creative. Jdroba certainly brought up good points about the resale and the fact that it's a pretty major remodel. Still-if moving the dinette is possible we'd still consider this avenue. Cheers.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by kfo4173 View Post
Where exactly is the water heater fixed-the seat on the bed end or the other? I'm assuming the upper cabinets could be shortened and the wall reattached. It seems as though the water heater is a pretty big obstacle to moving the dinete. Do you see any way around this? Anyone have ideas?
We have a 20', and the water heater is closest to the bed.

What you are suggesting would remove the 2nd bed from the layout. I agree that the bed isn't wide enough, but we also sleep with our little dogs, so hubby sleeps in the large bed (he is taller) and I sleep in the converted dinette area. We each sleep with a dog. That works for us.

It would be a lot easier, cheaper, and less expensive (maybe) to just get a larger unit and a TV to tow it. And it would get you camping a lot faster to not have to do all that work!
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:56 PM   #9
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The 20' is 20' 10". The 22' is 21' 8".

The 10" longer length on the 22' won't keep you out of any camp spots and comes with a wider/longer bed than the 20'.
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Old 10-12-2015, 02:24 PM   #10
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Much better to start with enough space in the first place because almost everyone doing extended travel wishes they had some more, and trailer maneuverability has much more to do with tow vehicle wheelbase than trailer length.

The 20 is a very concise design with emphasis on kitchen countertop length at the expense of bed and living space. It's a great design but for long-term travel the lack of living/sleeping space is it's weakness.

You will be happier with enough space as designed, and you won't have to destroy it's resale value. If you need a bigger bed, then that should be your starting point.
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Old 10-12-2015, 03:08 PM   #11
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While it is true that many first-time trailer buyers wish they had bought a larger trailer, some find they have reasons to desire a smaller one. OP's comment "Length is a big issue for me-will never go to a site with hookups and want to be small enough to get in almost anywhere" rings a bell with us.

We are on the real "camping" end of the user spectrum and started with a 23' trailer because we prefer the state and national parks in the west which tend to have smaller sites -- certainly smaller than parking spaces in the RV parks that many on this site refer to as places to camp.

Even at 23' we found that we often had to pass up more desirable campsites due to size. The two-trailer option won't work for everyone, but we added a 16' Basecamp to the fleet for when we "want to be small enough to get in almost anywhere".

There is nothing wrong with larger trailers, and there is nothing wrong with staying in RV parks, which we sometimes do.

The question is: what is right for you?
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Much better to start with enough space in the first place because almost everyone doing extended travel wishes they had some more, and trailer maneuverability has much more to do with tow vehicle wheelbase than trailer length.

The 20 is a very concise design with emphasis on kitchen countertop length at the expense of bed and living space. It's a great design but for long-term travel the lack of living/sleeping space is it's weakness.

You will be happier with enough space as designed, and you won't have to destroy it's resale value. If you need a bigger bed, then that should be your starting point.
We had a 20" Safari (the next year they started calling them Flying Cloud, but they have the same layout!), and we loved it except for the narrow bed crammed up against the wall. The rest of the trailer was only barely large enough for the two of us for more than a few days, unless we had a total life of perfect weather! I would strongly advise getting a 23". It has a queen bed and reasonable room in the living area. It's still a narrow body, and the length will fit almost anywhere the 20" will. Its double axle makes it easier to maneuver than the single axle 20".
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by kfo4173 View Post
A 25 is too large. Need to tow with a 4x4 tacoma double cab with towing package. Length is a big issue for me-will never go to a site with hookups and want to be small enough to get in almost anywhere.

A good nights sleep is critical. We originally considered converting a sprinter van ourselves and in fact went through an entire design process-don't mind cramped quarters but realized having a trailer is more of a home for a year. I'd say 54x75 is our minimum, no exceptions.

The 22 is a bit longer than the 20 and I'm not sure about that-the 20 seems absolutely perfect if we could find a way to modify the bed. Living full time with two in that bed is simply too small. The dinette as a living room is exactly what we want-don't want a lounge or anything else.

Thanks for the replies so far-very helpful. Length is the main factor we're trying to limit, while still have a larger bed. We like the finish of the FC over the sport a lot, and are willing to pay for it. I feel like others must have tried to convert to a larger bed in a FC20 FB-any other ideas? Willing to get super creative. Jdroba certainly brought up good points about the resale and the fact that it's a pretty major remodel. Still-if moving the dinette is possible we'd still consider this avenue. Cheers.
We tow with a 2007 Tacoma v-6 automatic complete with factory. So far we have done FL to Canada twice including the smokys the Blue ridge and the ada5ondacs average 13 MPH we travel around 55 mile per hour

Chuck
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:18 PM   #14
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We had a 20" Safari (the next year they started calling them Flying Cloud, but they have the same layout!), and we loved it except for the narrow bed crammed up against the wall. The rest of the trailer was only barely large enough for the two of us for more than a few days, unless we had a total life of perfect weather! I would strongly advise getting a 23". It has a queen bed and reasonable room in the living area. It's still a narrow body, and the length will fit almost anywhere the 20" will. Its double axle makes it easier to maneuver than the single axle 20".
Did you find that the 23' felt or looked significantly longer than the 20'? Did it prevent you from getting into sites that you previously could access on the 20'?
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