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Old 12-27-2014, 08:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Sounds like BS to me.

Like to hear from Patrick at Colonial on that one.

I Know it wouldn't fly at any GM store I ever worked at.
We were not allowed to write an order at 35k looking for warrantee work, you need a customer complaint.

But PDI's required a repair for any found factory 'defects'.

Bob
No offense intended Bob, but would did you just say?

What does "order at 35k" mean, and what's a PDI?

Are you saying I'm trying to BS you?

What does GM store have to do with Airstream?

Ken
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:28 PM   #72
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Hi, Ken; Let me try to explain what Bob meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag&Au View Post
No offense intended Bob, but what did you just say?

What does "order at 35k" mean, and what's a PDI?

This means that you aren't allowed to sell warranty on a vehicle which is about to expire at 36,000 miles or 36 months. PDI is pre-delivery inspection and this is when all factory defects are to be fixed, not after the sell.

Are you saying I'm trying to BS you?

No; the dealer is BS-ing you by saying that the customer has to complain about all of the defects after delivery before they fix them. This puts the customer on the hook for items missed by the transporter when he left the factory and the dealer who also missed items when receiving this vehicle. This also explains the many denied warranty claims by the customer.

What does GM store have to do with Airstream?


GM, Ford Etc. dealers do a pre-delivery inspection at the time of the vehicle hitting the dealer's lot and all defects, damage, or missing parts are to be repaired before selling this vehicle to the customer.



Ken
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:42 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, Ken; Let me try to explain what Bob meant.

That's pretty much what I expected, except I still have no idea what the 36K has to do with this subject.. I also still don't see any relationship between what given automobile manufacturers do and what Airstream, a RV manufacturer chooses to do.

And if what I was told is not correct, why do we have this whole thread about defects missed by the dealers. It would seem to me that the dealers would like to have the dollars generated by these repair hours and would do them on their own volition if they were BSing me.

On second thought: Never Mind

Ken
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Old 12-27-2014, 11:25 PM   #74
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Esteemed AS is no different than any other company. They have to watch their "bottom line", so there's a balance..... provide just enough customer service to keep enough customers coming back. Turn just enough of a blind eye to quality problems, fix whatever has to be fixed. Otherwise, good for us! (Guess what? I'd say that about Avion, if I was buying a new trailer from them.... which I can't, unfortunately.)

Once the trailer hits the dealer's lot, what incentive does he/she have to fix things that are wrong with the product? None!! Airstream has a brand reputation that doesn't require them to have a perfect product on the lot to attract customers.

Moral of the story: Buyer beware. MAKE them fix things that are not right before any money changes hands.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:10 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag&Au View Post
No offense intended Bob, but would did you just say?

What does "order at 35k" mean, and what's a PDI?

Are you saying I'm trying to BS you?

What does GM store have to do with Airstream?

Ken
Ken,

SORRY for the confusion. my bad.
I meant not to toss any dispersions your way.

Robert 'splained it perfectly.

An Airstream Dealer is supposed to use the pre-delivery inspection method to correct and repair defects from the factory or transport.
Expecting the customer to do it and report back just doesn't make any sense and is definitely NOT an acceptable Dealer practice.

In my case the normal AS 2 year warranty was just an extended PDI, as our selling dealer had closed and no other Dealer was in NYS at the time.

Unfortunately I really believe thats how JC views the PDI process also.
Don't do a thorough PDI, let the customer discover the defects and bring the unit back as they are brought to light.

That could very well be the basis for what your 'dealer' told you.

"Time will bring to light whatever is hidden; it will cover up and conceal what is now shining in splendor."
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Old 12-28-2014, 08:04 AM   #76
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Airstream quality issues

In my mind, this situation is analogous to the US auto industry before competition from the Japanese. Airstream essentially has no competition and has extremely strong demand so there is no incentive for them to address well documented quality control and design issues in a substantive manner - they don't have to, they can sell all that they make and more.

I had a new 23' FB Int'l Serenity that I sold and then bought a new Bowlus Road Chief. My Airstream had a number of quality control issues from the factory, most minor but some major. Somewhat disappointingly, my dealer was Colonial and it appeared that they did no pre-delivery inspection. A number of issues were caught and addressed during our walk through when we were taking possession of the unit.

This thread, and many like it, have identified a number of steps that could be taken by Airstream at little or no cost and that would greatly improve the product as delivered to the buyer. The problem remains because there is no external incentive for Airstream to change - they're selling everything they can make.

John S.
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Old 12-28-2014, 09:33 AM   #77
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I doubt most Rv dealers perform PDI when they receive their trailers from the manufacturer. They probably do it prior to the buyer picking up their trailer just before they do the customer orientation. At least that is what I expect.

Kelvin
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:28 AM   #78
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My experience with picking up my trailer shows that, at least the dealer who we bought out trailer from, removes the transporting protection ,washes the trailer, does a few setup tasks, perhaps does a cursory look over and waits for the customer to point out discrepancies on the walk though when the trailer is picked up for the first time.

Apparently I did not make my point plainly, because it seem to be nearly universally misunderstood.

My point is that what the dealer told me makes perfect sense.

Airstream's primary and perhaps sole interest seems to be the bottom dollar, as is the case with most all modern day businesses. As long as many people's buying drive seem to be that airstreams are pretty, and the rest of the RV industry is at least equally shoddily put together, there is no incentive for change.

The question I was attempting to provide an answer to is:

Why doesn't the dealer fix these items before delivery?

The answer is because Airstream won't pay him to fix them until a customer has noticed and complained about them.

Why is it this way?

Because it is the cheapest way for Airstream to handle them.

It does not cost Airstream one penny to have a customer bring the trailer back to have it fixed. If Airstream paid the dealer to fix items found before delivery, they would be fixing some problems the customer may never even notice. Airstream also probably doesn't trust their dealers not to make up problems to fix for the extra bucks. Airstream doesn't care if it inconveniences the new owner, because right now there are people waiting in line to buy their trailers. They can't make them enough fast enough.

Until someone presents an argument that shows how in the current market, fixing a (non safety) problem before delivery helps Airstream's bottom dollar, I am going to believe what the dealer told me, because it makes the most dollar sense to Airstream, and today, that is the SOLE driving force. Until something causes airstream's popularity to sag or they start producing more than there is a demand for, that is not going to change.

It is my opinion, that to think otherwise is na´ve. They don't have to make you happy, they just have to make you want their trailers more than other trailers.

Ken
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:44 AM   #79
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We have several airstream dealers as active members. It would be nice to hear from them on this subject.
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:54 AM   #80
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We have several airstream dealers as active members. It would be nice to hear from them on this subject.
It might be, if they did not have a very powerful vested interest. Their livelihood depends on Airstream's reputation.

Pretend that I am right for a moment, how would it benefit a dealer to come here and verify that.

If I'm wrong, it would take an individual with no vested interest to convince me of that.

I am not saying Airstream is evil or any different from other large businesses, I'm just saying that in large businesses, making money is the goal and until Airstream has new units sitting at the factory not being sold ,there is no incentive to worry about some customer inconvenience. Right now, Airstream has no competition, and more customers than available product can satisfy. Their concern is getting more trailers built faster so they can make more money for stockholders, . That does not normally go hand in hand with quality control.


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Old 12-28-2014, 11:21 AM   #81
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It is my opinion, that to think otherwise is na´ve. They don't have to make you happy, they just have to make you want their trailers more than other trailers.

Ken
Single data point but the apparent lack of quality control, and quality, cost them at least one potential buyer - me*.

I did not relish the thought or spending $60k plus on a new Airstream, only to have to deal with filiform corrosion, leaks and possibly rotted floors in only 5 years - or less. Or to spend countless hours and miles back and forth to dealers for warranty work.

If they're selling like hotcakes, that's great.

If I were buying one, I'd look for a lightly used late model that had (hopefully) had all the kinks worked out by the first owner.

But, again, its great they're selling well. Adds to the pool of used ones and keeps prices down!

And at the upcoming RV show in Tampa we will likely be drooling all over the ones they have on display. That hopefully have been gone over for obvious defects!



*Well, with my CampLite I'm still in the Thor family, anyway!
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:50 AM   #82
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Single data point but the apparent lack of quality control, and quality, cost them at least one potential buyer - me*.

I did not relish the thought or spending $60k plus on a new Airstream, only to have to deal with filiform corrosion, leaks and possibly rotted floors in only 5 years - or less. Or to spend countless hours and miles back and forth to dealers for warranty work.

If they're selling like hotcakes, that's great.

If I were buying one, I'd look for a lightly used late model that had (hopefully) had all the kinks worked out by the first owner.

But, again, its great they're selling well. Adds to the pool of used ones and keeps prices down!

And at the upcoming RV show in Tampa we will likely be drooling all over the ones they have on display. That hopefully have been gone over for obvious defects!



*Well, with my CampLite I'm still in the Thor family, anyway!
That's true. Could you post or PM me a link where I could see the model trailer you have?

Thanks,

Ken
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:56 AM   #83
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Interesting thread...I've kept up with all the posts as we are still considering a new AS. Not very confident it will happen but some appropriate media attention on the most common deficits (pictures, descriptions, video, etc.) would probably get some of these issues addressed. Why is this part missing??? For the $$ these trailers cost, I absolutely expect more from an AS over other options. I do NOT expect to have to find major defects and report them post delivery. I expect my dealer to deliver a unit that has been properly inspected to "their" own set of standards. It seems dealer standards also are not where they need to be in many/most? instances. What we're seeing is completely under Mr. Wheeler's control to fix if he wants to. Same goes for dealers failing to follow through. Are profit margins so slim that AS cannot provide greater QC on these units???
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:11 PM   #84
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In the home purchase business, no intelligent buyer would buy without a whole house inspection. The inspectors are "certified" and charge a reasonable fee for their examinations and write-ups. Maybe the time has come for RV inspection services (?). As much as we like to feel we are clever, a "disinterested," qualified third party would be kept very busy, it seems. Anyone want to come out of retirement and start a business?
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