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Old 02-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #43
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When I get a chance to test tow a 23C/D and if it doesn't handle at least as well as towing with the Casita then we'll probably pull back from any purchase. I don't want to take the chance of replacing the tires just to find it still doesn't feel safe.

Kelvin
I had a 2010 17 SD, and towed it with a MB GL 330, and didn't have a WD hitch.

When we bought the 23 FB with a Reese Dual Cam WD and anti sway, there was no comparison. The 23 towed like a dream compared to the Casita.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:58 PM   #44
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The interest you pay could be interest you earn on putting that cash in savings for five years,
doug k
I have a pre-qual on an RV loan for 4.62%. I wish I could find a savings account that paid that amount. I don't want to loose 5 years of camping and traveling staying at home saving cash. Who knows its possible in 5 years none of us will be able to participate in this lifestyle.

I will get a chance to test tow a 23D this Saturday at a dealership. They will probably hook me up with an Equalizer 4pt hitch. I have a Sherline scale to measure the hitch weight and I will insist they add a couple of batteries on the A frame. True the 4.7L hasn't got the HP of the large Tundra 5.7L. We had a Dolphin motor home on a Toyota 1 ton chassis with the 2.4l 4 cylinder engine from 1986 to 1991. The total length of it was 21 feet. We took it all over the west including Monarch Pass in Colorado. It would cruise up those high passes at 45 mph and most of the time on the flats we were fine at 60 to 65 mph. I'm not expecting the 4.7L to pull the 23D at 75 mph up steep moutains. Even with the Casita I have to put it in 3rd to maintain 55, e.g. the interstate coming into Billings from the south. I only tow at 58 to 62mph and at that rate I can do 600 miles per day. I get to Glacier Park in 3 days from Dallas at that speed in the Casita.

I appreciate all the comments. I've learned a lot.

Kelvin
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #45
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We have the 23 with desk option and tow with a tundra 5.7. We use the desk area as our coffee and evening bar. We store our portable ice maker under the chair. We usually keep the dining table open half way all the time. I use this table to write on not the desk. We bought our's used 2 years ago. We had to upgrade our tv from a Tacoma to the tundra to be an easy tow. I'm 5 years from retirement but my husband is retired already. We have enjoyed using it and hope to have both the airstream and tv paid for by my retirement. Good luck.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:28 PM   #46
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We looked at a 2012 23D International today at Crain RV in Little Rock, Arkansas. We drove 300 miles to see it. Despite communicating my wishes to be able to test tow the trailer they failed to set it up ready for a WDH. The trailer must have been on their lot for close to a year as the tail lights showed signs of discoloring. There was also signs of water staining from rain that flowed around the lens. The inside was dusty and you could write your name on the aluminum celling there was so much dust. The corner bed looked like it could work for us but the two negatives for the wife was the small toilet area and the lack of kitchen counter space. Sitting on the toilet the door barely closed. The shower size was good but the shower curtain spring was very stiff and unless you held the curtain in the right spot it wouldn't latch easy. I guess you could get used to the curtain. The wife didn't really like the dark stain cabinetry nor the sliding cabinet doors.

The price didn't seem to reflect that it was a 2012. We looked at a 2013 23FB and liked the bathroom, queen bed and wardrobes better. We didn't like the way the right sink plumbing took up too much storage space. We were trying to think where you could put pots and pans under the sink. We liked the pantry of the 23D better than the 23FB. So corner baths are out. I think this adventure has helped us settle on a 25fb and a new tow vehicle. Sometimes you can't tell how you are going to like something looking at phot0s.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:54 PM   #47
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Good for you! I know it is quite an investment even shopping (gas and time) but as you know, it will even be a bigger investment when you buy. Kelvin, I would also think about used ones even 5-6 years old. It is amazing when you get into looking at used. Airstream has/had some nifty floorplans that are not available anymore. Another difference is seeing ones without a dinette. Some cannot stand the idea of such but, as I have noticed, it is the first thing to go in many redesigns I have read about. One thing a dinette is great for is extra counter space but then again, so are the pull out or pop up tables. If you can find a Safari you will get to see the upholstered walls and ceiling of the classic in the regular models. The SE is different. There is a 2007 Safari 25 LS in Red Oak for sale on craig's list (for example) that the owner is asking $37K but perhaps negotiable.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:20 PM   #48
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I know you have pretty much given up on the corner bed bath idea but here is a pic from the classifieds on what, to me, is the smartest 23' lounge layout - most versatile:
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:09 AM   #49
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Well, the wife is thinking that the corner bath is off the deal breaker list but she feels a 25 would be the best in the long run. I saw a nice older floor plan for a 25 on youTube that has the front couch with fold up table, dinette across from the kitchen. The kitchen has a round sink instead of the double sink so it offers more counter space, larger pantry than the current 25s. It has a corner bed but because this is an 8 1/2 foot wide AS the corner bed is larger. The only downside is the black tank, only 18 gallons but our Casita is only 15gal and three of us have used it for 4 days without dumping.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:28 AM   #50
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That floorplan is called a 25SS ("sleep six"). Here's one in basic Safari trim that's for sale at Colonial Airstream - I think it was owned by a forum member who upgraded.

And here's one in the Airforum classifieds that's an Ocean Breeze, out (much) closer to you.

Note you'll still have the tight bathroom issue. We get around it by taking off the door and using a curtain as a bathroom door. Less privacy but more knee room.

I've been in one. It's a very open-feeling trailer with lots of windows.

Tom
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:13 AM   #51
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Kevin,

I, too, would love the 23C with the larger tanks. It would be perfect for us. Wonder how one could get larger tanks?? We are not DIY when it comes to tanks. We love to camp without hook ups at times and the smaller Bambi tanks limit us to about 2.5 days. Larger tanks would keep us out longer. The 23C just seems more comfortable than the 23D even with the side bed. The storage room in either would be adequate for us. We pack like backpackers anyway and don't use up all the storage in our 19' even on lengthy trips.

Let us know what your decision is.


All the best,

Caryl
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:18 PM   #52
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And here's one in the Airforum classifieds that's an Ocean Breeze, out (much) closer to you.

Tom
Hmm, lots of pm activity on this one but my wife would go nuts on it. She really likes the OB decor. 636 miles from my house to Albuquerque. I'd have to stock up on Tequila and Margarita mix if I got an OB! I've got to upgrade the TV first.

I think the thing that is now the biggest deal breaker for us on the 23C/D is the kitchen counter space or lack of space. The 25 has the row of drawers that allows more counter space. We aren't great cooks but when we do cook things tend to spread out and get messy.

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Old 03-15-2013, 01:19 AM   #53
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Hmm, lots of pm activity on this one but my wife would go nuts on it. She really likes the OB decor. 636 miles from my house to Albuquerque. I'd have to stock up on Tequila and Margarita mix if I got an OB! I've got to upgrade the TV first.

I think the thing that is now the biggest deal breaker for us on the 23C/D is the kitchen counter space or lack of space. The 25 has the row of drawers that allows more counter space. We aren't great cooks but when we do cook things tend to spread out and get messy.

Kelvin
The lack of counter space really gets to me as well. I've been looking and looking and I'm starting to think a 20 is good enough for me. After all I'm one skinny dude with no pets, just photo gear and maybe a plant or two. The consternation over a TV is also pushing me to a smaller trailer. Maybe I'll just get a tent and a minivan!
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:43 AM   #54
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While I agree that more counter space would be nice, I'm surprised by how well our 23 L-lounge works in that regard. The space behind the sink is deep, and with the stove and sink covers, we usually make out OK. It's not super-generous, and I wouldn't want to make Thanksgiving dinner there, but it's OK. We wouldn't change our trailer because of that.

That said, I'm all for towing with minivans...

Tom
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