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Old 10-19-2016, 11:08 AM   #15
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Welcome to the joys of Airstream ownership!

No need to feel like an idiot, we have all been through a similar learning curve.

Are you sure the air hose is connected to the city water port, and not the black water flush port? I would lower the pressure to 40 PSI to be safe. Your built-in water pressure regulator may be reading the PSI as too high IMO. Did it work OK before when you used city water?

Keep checking the water level percentage, it may come down to zero when the inside water residue evaporates, or the sensor may be bad.

Did you find the water pump per earlier posts? Are you sure it is not working or just very quiet? Can you actually see the pump now? Even if -- by total coincidence IMO -- your pump just went bad, you can still winterize with air pressure alone. When you disconnect the intake and output hoses from the water pump per the owners manual, some water will drain out (all plumbing already blown out, and all faucets open), which you can catch in a rag.

If necessary, take a break until your equanimity returns? Deep breathing and so forth . . .

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Old 10-19-2016, 11:46 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by whitegs View Post
OK, so I opened all the drains (fresh water and petcocks) and raised and lowered the jack. Water has stopped flowing from the fresh water drain but the monitor says there is still 13%. I turn on the pump switch and dead silence. So I hooked up my compressor to the city water inlet with all the taps open and have a steady 60# of air pressure but I don't sense anything coming out of any of the faucets. What am I missing? Is there some kind of pressure release valve I have to press on the city water inlet? Why is this so hard?
It's ok -- this will become easier after your first or second time around. My first time, I had to winterize twice as I forgot to close my low-point drains when I introduced anti-freeze into the lines :-P

ok -- two items of note....

60# is a tad high - drop it to the 40-45# range IMHO.

However, I see you indicated all your lines were open inside the trailer. Instead, close all lines and then pressurize the system with air. If you're using a pancake or generic compressor found at a package store, it's likely powerful enough only to sustain pressure work for one side of one appliance at a time. So, my walkthrough script is as follows:

o make sure all faucets and turned off
o make sure drain lines are off
o pressurize the system to about 40-45PSI (my own choice of that level.)

o turn on cold outside hand wash faucet. Let air clear lines.
o close cold outside hand wash faucet; allow compressor to recover 40-45PSI in the lines.
o turn on hot outside hand wash faucet. let air lines clear.
o repeat closure of hot valve, repeat compressor recovery

Then inside, for the cold; recover, hot side of the kitchen sink, then the shower, cold and hot, then the bathroom sink cold and hot and finally the toilet and the toilet+spray wand.

o recover wastes from tanks, close tank valves;
o drop a cup of RV grade anti-freeze down all traps and the remainder of the gallon bottle into the toilet.

BE ADVISED -- if you have changed your shower head to the oxygenetics brand, when you release pressure through that, in the enclosed space of your shower, you'll get a hiss in a VERY LOUD decibel range to make your ears ring. you may want to wear hearing protection during the exercise!

Ian
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:00 PM   #17
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water pump again

So I look at the bottom of the fridge and that's where the converter and fuses and circuit breakers are. I'm told by AS that maybe it's under the hall wardrobe and I do see a pipe coming up from there but there is no panel that's easily removed but there is a board screwed in in front of where it might be. Do I have to unscrew 8 small phillips screws to be able to remove that board and get to the water pump?

It just doesn't feel right. No air coming out of the faucets when I attach the compressor and no obvious access to the water pump.

I'd hate to have to drive 150 miles each way to Jackson Center to have someone do this for me. What a pain.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by IanPoulin View Post
It's ok -- this will become easier after your first or second time around. My first time, I had to winterize twice as I forgot to close my low-point drains when I introduced anti-freeze into the lines :-P

ok -- two items of note....

60# is a tad high - drop it to the 40-45# range IMHO.

However, I see you indicated all your lines were open inside the trailer. Instead, close all lines and then pressurize the system with air. If you're using a pancake or generic compressor found at a package store, it's likely powerful enough only to sustain pressure work for one side of one appliance at a time. So, my walkthrough script is as follows:

o make sure all faucets and turned off
o make sure drain lines are off
o pressurize the system to about 40-45PSI (my own choice of that level.)

o turn on cold outside hand wash faucet. Let air clear lines.
o close cold outside hand wash faucet; allow compressor to recover 40-45PSI in the lines.
o turn on hot outside hand wash faucet. let air lines clear.
o repeat closure of hot valve, repeat compressor recovery

Then inside, for the cold; recover, hot side of the kitchen sink, then the shower, cold and hot, then the bathroom sink cold and hot and finally the toilet and the toilet+spray wand.

o recover wastes from tanks, close tank valves;
o drop a cup of RV grade anti-freeze down all traps and the remainder of the gallon bottle into the toilet.

BE ADVISED -- if you have changed your shower head to the oxygenetics brand, when you release pressure through that, in the enclosed space of your shower, you'll get a hiss in a VERY LOUD decibel range to make your ears ring. you may want to wear hearing protection during the exercise!

Ian
I'll try that. I'll close everything and let it pressurize to 45# and then do the faucets one at a time. BTW, You didn't mention the water pump. Do you just ignore that?
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:05 PM   #19
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Richard, you have plenty of information now to go forward with your winterizing.

I think Nrgtrakr said it best. It is very important to know where your pump is located but it is not necessary for winterizing. I have a water filter on my pump and have been using just air for 7 years. No problems and our winters get to zero and sometimes below. I follow the procedure described by our local Airstream dealer. This is how they winterize their customers trailers.

Basically I drain all the tanks, water heater and lines. I bypass the heater and blow out all the lines. Once finished with that I run the pump to clear out the water from the filter and the pump itself. I then blow all the lines out a second time. I throw some antifreeze in the traps and remove the spray head at the sink and the water filter from the faucet. I leave all the low point drains open as well as the FW tank drain. Any water left can drain once I get the trailer to the storage lot. No need, in my opinion, to crawl under the trailer and use your lips to blow out these valves. Be thorough, be careful but keep the process simple. Overkill will do no harm. Some use air AND the pink stuff. That would be the best way, no question.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:07 PM   #20
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There is another thread on winterizing as well.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f458...wn-157188.html
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitegs View Post
So I look at the bottom of the fridge and that's where the converter and fuses and circuit breakers are. I'm told by AS that maybe it's under the hall wardrobe and I do see a pipe coming up from there but there is no panel that's easily removed but there is a board screwed in in front of where it might be. Do I have to unscrew 8 small phillips screws to be able to remove that board and get to the water pump?
. . .
Have you read your hard copy of your owners manual, and seen the illustration of the filter at the pump, referred to earlier in Post #2?

Did you read the thread linked in Post #5, which suggests that access to your water pump may be very difficult, as the user DeltaRon described? You may have to take the time to absorb the information you are receiving here. My impression, sorry if I am wrong, is that you are in a bit of a panic about this. Again, sorry if I am wrong, but good clear communication will not be possible if so.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:02 PM   #22
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. . .
Once finished with that I run the pump to clear out the water from the filter and the pump itself.
. . .
You have been lucky IMO if you haven't accessed the pump and removed both the intake and outlet hoses. The compressed air does not reach any water trapped before and after the pump, at possible hidden low points. What works in your AS may not work in all others.

The owners manual for the OP's trailer, linked in Post #2, says on PDF p. 80/112:

"Disconnect the water pump inlet connection and turn the pump on until all the water is expelled.This water, about 1/2 cup, can be caught in a towel or rag."

The additional step I suggested in Post #2, of blowing by mouth into the pump's intake water line from the water tank [not crawling under the trailer, as it seems was referred to below], is one acquired from years of dealing with these matters, and is a small point of refinement intended to cover all possible weak links in the chain.

Assuming the following quote is referring to my suggestion, it does not accurately state what was suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
. . .
No need, in my opinion, to crawl under the trailer and use your lips to blow out these valves.
. . .
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot View Post
There is another thread on winterizing as well.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f458...wn-157188.html
An excellent reference, as the thread involves another FC28, albeit from a different model year.

It appears that the 28' AS have pumps in various locations, depending on model year, floor plan, and so forth.

Very frustrating if you own one, like Richard is finding!

Good luck.

Peter

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Old 10-19-2016, 01:58 PM   #24
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Angry Not in a panic

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
You have been lucky IMO if you haven't accessed the pump and removed both the intake and outlet hoses. The compressed air does not reach any water trapped before and after the pump, at possible hidden low points. What works in your AS may not work in all others.

The owners manual for the OP's trailer, linked in Post #2, says on PDF p. 80/112:

"Disconnect the water pump inlet connection and turn the pump on until all the water is expelled.This water, about 1/2 cup, can be caught in a towel or rag."

The additional step I suggested in Post #2, of blowing by mouth into the pump's intake water line from the water tank [not crawling under the trailer, as it seems was referred to below], is one acquired from years of dealing with these matters, and is a small point of refinement intended to cover all possible weak links in the chain.

Assuming the following quote is referring to my suggestion, it does not accurately state what was suggested.
Freezing temps are probably a month away so I'm not that panicked. I am actually frustrated at my apparent inability to complete this simple task. In summary, my problems have been:
1. Reading the user manual for my trailer and not finding the pump in any of the locations mentioned.
2. Turning on the water pump switch and not hearing anything so it doesn't seem as if that would eliminate the residual water. Not sure why the pump is inoperative now as it was working just a week ago on our last boondocking trip. Of course I emptied the fresh water tank by opening that drain so maybe it won't turn on if there is no water in the tank.
3. Despite opening the fresh water drain, the monitor still reads 13%.
4. Tomorrow is another day when I will close all the drains and faucets and try once again to pressurize the system and open the faucets one at a time. I still don't know about the water pump, even if I find the air pressure actually working.
5. If I wanted to use antifreeze in the system, not being able to locate the pump intake hose to suck up the antifreeze makes that a non-starter.

I suppose after all this I can tow the beast to Jackson Center if I can get an appointment before the middle of winter.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:05 PM   #25
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It is time you step back and start over.

To winterize a trailer you need an adapter to the city water connection and a length of suction hose to go into the antifreeze. You can make or buy the adapter.

After draining the hot water heater, setting the hot water heater bypass valve, and drained the fresh water tank.

Attach the adapter to the city connection and while someone is inside have them open the cold side of the closest faucet to the city connection and you apply PULSES of air to the city connection. Do not pressurize the system. Don't pay any attention to the water line drains Airstream installed. They are more problems than they are worth. Do this until your helper says it is only droplets and air coming out and close the faucet. Do the hot water side of that faucet. Move to the next faucet, shower, toilet, kitchen sink and filtered water faucet if equipped.

You have now purged the system as best you can.

Disconnect the inlet side of the water pump, before and filter that is there, and connect the hose to the line. The floor of the closet should just lift to access the pump. Make sure it is an air tight connection, clamp if necessary. Again have someone open the closest cold water faucet to the pump and turn on the pump till antifreeze come out of that faucet. Turn pump off as not to waste antifreeze. Then do the hot water side and move until all faucets have flowed antifreeze. Reconnect the input side of the pump and go have a drink. This should take less than a gallon of antifreeze and less than 15 minutes.

Come spring fill the fresh water tank, turn on the pump and draw water from each faucet till clear. Turn he hot water heater bypass valve and while the pump is on and a hot water faucet is open fill till a steady stream of water comes out.

We carry a few gallons of water from home for the first trip and use that for cooking and drinking. That first trip should clean things of any residual antifreeze .
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:11 PM   #26
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You are getting a lot of help here, unfortunately some of it conflicting, the downside of the forum. However, there is no getting around the fact that if you want to do this yourself, you need to locate your water pump. It has no low pressure or low water cutoff; it will run and make noise empty. Check the fuse.

Larry
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:23 PM   #27
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Richard please read DeltaRon's experience in the thread linked in Post #5 here, before you try to locate your pump, or attempt to get antifreeze into its intake.

I will bow out here, as we are not communicating very well in my personal opinion.

Good luck.

Peter
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Old 10-19-2016, 03:42 PM   #28
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Thanks for all the help

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Richard please read DeltaRon's experience in the thread linked in Post #5 here, before you try to locate your pump, or attempt to get antifreeze into its intake.

I will bow out here, as we are not communicating very well in my personal opinion.

Good luck.

Peter
I did read DeltaRon's experience as you suggested and realize my problem is that at age 81, even with hearing aids, I couldn't hear the faint hum of the pump. So I asked my ever loving who has such good hearing I'm convinced she hears things that aren't there to listen when I turned on the pump and she heard it and found it was clearly under the wardrobe. So tomorrow I will remove the six (not 4) phillips screws on the panel under the wardrobe shelf and see if the pump is there and accessible.

I think everyone has been communicating very clearly albeit with somewhat different advice. I'm sure everyone's methods would work. I just am so compulsive about everything I want to follow the manual's procedure exactly.

I know everyone is probably entirely sick of me by now, but I will make a final post tomorrow after I've followed the various suggestions.

Again, sorry if I've aggravated you all, but it's comforting to have someone to ventilate to. Thanks for your patience.
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