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Old 03-02-2015, 10:18 PM   #29
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Hi, I'm Burnside Bob, duncans's other half.

Here's duncans putting some elbow grease to the Phoenix. Shining her up made the upper panels look worse--maybe we should paint something there.

It's claimed the fluorocarbon clear coat doesn't yellow, but we've got some nice golden brown areas.

[IMG][/IMG]

duncans doing a test patch

[IMG][/IMG]

When the RV storage building burned melted roofing asphalt fell making those black glops. So far they've resisted everything we've tried. They do get softer when the sun warms the shell, so we'll break out the heat gun soon.

[IMG][/IMG]

Notice battery charger--batteries charging and some of 12V system--like jack--working.

[IMG][/IMG]

First pass on curbside wall done. Used liquid laundry detergent followed by Simple Green on the spots that didn't clean.

Window surrounds did not clean at all with these cleaning products. We kinda like the anodized look, but anyone have any cleaning ideas?

TIA

Burnside Bob and duncans
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Old 03-03-2015, 09:04 AM   #30
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I have used a cleaner I found at Lowes called ZEP Industrial Cleaner Concentrate. It contains Sodium Hydroxide (lye) and Butoxyethanol ether. (Castrol Super Clean /Purple Power). When I started my Strip/polish process, I had to remove a layer of biologicals, moss, tannins from decaying leaves and the like.
I mixed it with water to 25% strength and using a hand sprayer, saturated the skin, in sections. On the areas that had no or little clear coat, it began to react with the aluminum and bio matter, actually "floating it" up off the surface. Using a long car wash brush with soft bristles, I scrubbed away, keeping the area wet until I was ready to rinse.
Okay, some of you are thinking I must be crazy using a strong Alkali cleaner on my Airstream. I started with small increments of soak time and as I repeated them, I increased the duration. With each rinse, the bare Al just got better.
It did not leave any pitting, and the surface was smooth to a fingernail scratch. It had absolutely minimal impact on the Clear, except where it was oxidized along the roof curve line. The areas that I stripped are a matte finish whereas the chemically stripped areas retain their original finish.
Now the good news. I do believe that if I clear coated the etched surface it would look great. If you decide to polish, it will take a shine beautifully. With that said, a shiny AS is a low return investment and there are no real shortcuts. It costs less than a psychiatrist too.
I am not sure of the chemistry involved with Florine based clear coatings and the ingredients of the ZEP Industrial Cleaner when used together.
If it was my project, I would start out with a 12% solution, and increase to 25%.
Im thinking that if the clear coat has cooked a bit, it may require a high quality paint stripper first, then the NaOH.
Either way, it gonna take a LOT of love, and scrubbing.
A very nice find at a great price. It will be awesome!
Best wishes
Clayton
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:16 AM   #31
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globs of tar

If the globs are thick, I think I'd use a piece of wire (banjo wire pops to the top of my head) and use it like a cheese cutter to take the great bulk of a glob off, then I think I'd actually try paint thinner or perhaps something designed to get bugs off of the windshield. Most tar is going to be asphalt or pine pitch boiled down. I'd guess a petro chemical would be the only effective solvent. Of course you could make several trials; WD-40, sewing machine oil, regular old 10-40, mineral oil, paint thinner, etc.

We watch with bated (or baited) breath. Not looking all that bad so far.

Oh and for the window frames... no clearcoat there so try the Clorox basin tub and tile cleaner... or how about toothpaste and a toothbrush? If all else fails, paint them black, or red or whatever your heart desires.

Paula
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:23 PM   #32
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Cleaning up nicely !
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:43 AM   #33
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Interior shots please - how bad could it be.... dumb question, right?

Just had a mental picture of the antifreeze catching fire - flaming toilet?

It's amazing how much better the lower panel looks compared to the upper one - the heat definitely stretched and boinged that one. Surprised that the curved segments look so good.

Noticed that the tail light aluminum pieces look black, but that the plastic lights themselves look fine. Bet those will be a bicheroo to clean.

Paula
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:41 AM   #34
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Try charcoal lighter on the tar
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Old 03-06-2015, 11:37 PM   #35
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Progress Report:

The Phoenix has been flying hi and low.

Last weekend Can Of Beans came over and ventured forth into the Phoenix's electrical net with mostly good news. Turns out all of the 120V works (meaning the breakers don't trip). And, if I understood correctly, all the 12 volt works except trailer running lights and the entertainment system.

So we were flying high with that news.

But the clean up--alas, the clean up. We are flying low with the clean up.

Those of you familiar with the traditional american folk story, 'Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby', have some insight. The trailer interior is covered--every conceivable surface--with sooty tar. And if you touch anything to a dirty area and then to a clean area, the clean area isn't clean anymore.

So between duncans coming down with the flu, and me being preoccupied with running our spread (we are having Spring here in Western Oregon), we haven't made much progress with the tar baby. Actually, duncans has done a lot of work on the interior, but we've still got a long ways to go.

Thank you all for your exterior cleaning suggestions. I hope to try them out as I have time--hopefully tomorrow!
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Old 03-07-2015, 12:15 AM   #36
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Check out my Smoking HOT Deal on a 2009 FB Flying Cloud

That son of a gun got HOT.

Is the passenger side warped the same?

The yes, no, or kinda answer to this question would sway my direction.

I would paint, but it will be a ton of work getting the panels leveled out, too much work if the other side is as bad.


Edit>>> I looked at the other pictures, I see that the other side is warped too.

I think if it was mine and I didn't want to spend money reskinning the top section, I would get a good D/A sander and start sanding for paint.

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
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Old 03-07-2015, 12:36 AM   #37
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If you went this route the discoloring on the frames etc can be dealt with in one fell swoop.

SOME of the waves could be lessened by systematically working down the high spots with a hammer.

Body filler would be required in the hammer marks. Lots of body filler and a lot of time and the trailer could look straight again, but the filler would be a lot thicker than 1/8" in a lot of areas. With good sanding to an 80 grit or rougher scratch, it would still last a long time.

If you are not worried about the waves I would paint the trailer for sure. It will be way faster in the long run.


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Old 03-07-2015, 04:17 PM   #38
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It looks like a smoking deal?.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:25 PM   #39
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somebody has finally figured out how to remove the vinyl-fluoride clearcoat
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:21 PM   #40
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Random Thought

That heat yellowing looks like what happens to old plastic when the bromine-based flame retardant migrates to the surface with age.

Maybe retrobrite or something like could treat it ? Retr0bright - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Disclaimer: I am terrible at chemistry and I am not responsible if it eats the phoenix.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:54 PM   #41
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Window Surround Cleaning Agent Test

Oh what to do!!? The surrounds for windows and doors are calphalon gray, and they do not clean with normal cleaning agents.

So I nerded out and ran a cleaning agent test.

Here's the window surround pre treatment.

[IMG][/IMG]

And three views of the different treatments--each treatment spanned two rivits on the surround.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


The window surround is treated with a clear coat similar if not identical to the old school plasticote on my '73 Sovereign. The different cleaning treatments fell into two camps: 1) aggressive and cutting thru the plasticote in seconds or 2) ineffective. In the first camp were gasoline, carb & choke cleaner, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Lacquer Thinner, and Goof Off 'Professional'.

What I was hoping to find was an agent that released the baked on gunk without dissolving the underlying plasticote. All of the effective cleaners dissolved the plasticote aggressively with the possible exception of the Gojo Orange hand cleaner, which might lift the gunk if allowed to dwell on the surface.

FWIW, Airstream recommends a PPG product for severe cleaning issues, PPG DX330 Acrylic Cleaner. I looked at the MSDS and determined that this product was similar in composition to Lacquer Thinner, about 2/3 of the ingredients of each appearing in the other.

Folks, several of these products are extremely flammable and the usual disclaimers about using outdoors only, no open flame or spark, apply. Use at your own risk and no endorsement is implied. I've got a big problem, and thought I'd share my process in the hopes it might be useful to you.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:39 AM   #42
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Looks like Gasoline may be the winner. BTW, an easy (easier?) way to mask around the curved part of the windows is to overlay the tape on top of the curved part of the frame, then use a razor knife to gently slice (like trimming a piecrust) on the raised curves edge of the frame. The tape will then easily be pressed onto the body panel. You'll have a perfectly fitted curve protecting the panel, leaving only the frame bare.

I say that you should leave the olive tinted and somewhat deformed upper panels in place and just decal the "firebird" and "Singed Phoenix" on the sides, rear window, whatever...
You'll always have a story to tell - and if you get a scratch - big woop!

Jackson Center awaits a big order for everything plastic. BTW the taillight surround has changed with later models. The ones you have can be removed and buffed on a wheel, then plasticoated with a spray bottle and remounted.

When making stained glass, with the Tiffany method (copper foil, and solid solder joints) it's common to use a chemical treatment to turn the solder black or bronze colored. (Copper sulfate solution for black if I recall correctly.) If you could find something to make the window frames solid black, that might be cool.

Paula
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