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Old 02-09-2016, 10:52 AM   #1359
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If the silicon really does a good job, you will not be able to remove a vent without bending/creasing the ceiling's inner aluminum skin IMO.

My Fred Flintstone suggestion to add 1-3 layers of aluminum foil to each tab is a purely mechanical solution which will incrementally increase the friction or "grip" of each tab, without risking the silicon "fix" which runs the risk of making the tabs permanently bond to the aluminum ceiling.

Try one of each maybe in the least visible location?

Caveat emptor?

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Old 02-09-2016, 10:55 AM   #1360
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Thanks for the warning. Now, I am rethinking using the silicone.

Brian
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:00 AM   #1361
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Moderately easy. The clear RTV is very robust yet easy removed by rolling it. But, it hardly lets go on its own. It was a common trick back in the day to use a dab to keep your hubcaps on yet they were easily removeable.

Just put a dab on two or three tabs...the vents will stay on their own but you can pop them out easily by spinning them first to break the RTV seal.
It is my understanding that the entire exposed surface of the vents rotates, which is how they are adjusted for airflow. It is therefore not possible to grip and rotate the underlying plastic base to free up the RTV bond IMO.

Moosetags is this correct?
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:06 AM   #1362
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When you grip the only exposed area of the vent, it is the outside metal piece with the louvers in it. It is attached to the plastic base piece with the tabs and the rotating plastic piece that closes off the vent with a rivet in the center.

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Old 02-09-2016, 01:05 PM   #1363
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How about folding several pieces of aluminum foil around the hole instead of the tabs? Perhaps some adhesive could be used to hold the foil in place (between the foil and the hole and between each piece of foil)? This would slightly reduce the diameter of each hole and may provide enough friction. I think this could be difficult to do and require some finesse to make the foil not show outside the vent. But I think looking at the tabs as too small may not be the only approach—the hole is too big. There may be something else available that is less flimsy than foil, but also quite thin. Maybe just duct tape (or some other tape) applied around the edges of the hole would work also. Duct tape has rough surface and might provide more friction than a smooth tape.

It could be when a worker cuts the hole, one cuts on the line and another cuts slightly outside the line. Or they use a hole saw with a 5" diameter, but the vent is metric and slightly smaller than 5". There are other possible explanations for why in some trailers there is no problem and in others, problems. The hide your head in the sand response from Airstream is not unusual. They will never assign a bunch of engineers to solve this because they don't have a bunch engineers (that would cost money). Airstream is a cash cow for Thor Industries and they are not going to change that.

If nothing works, I'd decide which way I want to the vent to direct air, screw it in place and forget about it.

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Old 02-09-2016, 02:39 PM   #1364
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If the silicon really does a good job, you will not be able to remove a vent without bending/creasing the ceiling's inner aluminum skin IMO.
Not to be brash, but that is absolutely laughably absurd. There is NO possible way that a few dabs of clear RTV would bend (lol) the interior aluminum skin. It's not JBWeld.

Sorry but I had to lol again...
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Old 02-09-2016, 03:51 PM   #1365
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How about a dab of silicone on the plastic? I not talking gobs. It looks like there's a half inch landing to put it on. I know we're anti silicone but it would be hidden by the directional cover and would hold good enough.

Three dabs for us ... placed at ~ 12, 4, & 8 o'clock. The silicone readily sticks to the aluminum but not the plastic of the vent surround ... just enough to keep the ring attached to the aluminum skin during expansion contraction cycles. I have not needed to remove so far, but think that the effort of using an x-acto blade to remove more than off sets the dropping adjustable vents ...
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Old 02-09-2016, 04:28 PM   #1366
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Not to be brash, but that is absolutely laughably absurd. There is NO possible way that a few dabs of clear RTV would bend (lol) the interior aluminum skin. It's not JBWeld.

Sorry but I had to lol again...
And you are willing to give moosetags a written guaranty of this? Please review the photos in Posts 1331 and 1344, especially the EIGHT tabs which will each be getting the silicon, correct?

I should probably have said "could" instead of "will" -- but under the right set of aligned circumstances, the silicon seal could definitely cause the aluminum to bend/crease as the inner skin is not that tough (when you try to remove a vent):

-- vent fits snugly in ceiling hole to start with -- silicon is for insurance
-- most of the EIGHT plastic tabs fit well, and extra silicon ends up in exactly the right sweet spot where each tab meets the aluminum
-- lack of access to get an exacto blade, utility knife, etc. into the hidden spot to help release the silicon seal [EDIT -- N.B. mefly2]
-- similarly, inability to rotate the vent to break the silicon seal, as the silver cover rotates independent of the plastic flange underneath (as I understand it anyway)
-- remember -- some of the duct openings in the ceiling are probably not near a framing member (rib? ceiling joist?), and therefore the aluminum skin is very flexible here, even with a compound curve

There are so many variables here, including the skill of the person doing the work, that a blanket promise that the vents CAN definitely be removed, without bending the ceiling aluminum, is wishful thinking IMO.

Could the vents possibly be removed if the silicon is used, without bending the ceiling? Yes.

Is this certain? No, in my personal opinion.

And once the aluminum is bent, there is no going back . . .

Good luck moosetags, I am only being conservative and cautious. I hope you will keep us updated.

Peter

PS RareStream, the post in question started out "If the silicon really does a good job" meaning almost by definition that ALL EIGHT tabs on the back of the vent would indeed be welded to the aluminum, in effect.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:19 PM   #1367
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
And you are willing to give moosetags a written guaranty of this? Please review the photos in Posts 1331 and 1344, especially the EIGHT tabs which will each be getting the silicon, correct?

I should probably have said "could" instead of "will" -- but under the right set of aligned circumstances, the silicon seal could definitely cause the aluminum to bend/crease as the inner skin is not that tough (when you try to remove a vent):

-- vent fits snugly in ceiling hole to start with -- silicon is for insurance
-- most of the EIGHT plastic tabs fit well, and extra silicon ends up in exactly the right sweet spot where each tab meets the aluminum
-- lack of access to get an exacto blade, utility knife, etc. into the hidden spot to help release the silicon seal [EDIT -- N.B. mefly2]
-- similarly, inability to rotate the vent to break the silicon seal, as the silver cover rotates independent of the plastic flange underneath (as I understand it anyway)
-- remember -- some of the duct openings in the ceiling are probably not near a framing member (rib? ceiling joist?), and therefore the aluminum skin is very flexible here, even with a compound curve

There are so many variables here, including the skill of the person doing the work, that a blanket promise that the vents CAN definitely be removed, without bending the ceiling aluminum, is wishful thinking IMO.

Could the vents possibly be removed if the silicon is used, without bending the ceiling? Yes.

Is this certain? No, in my personal opinion.

And once the aluminum is bent, there is no going back . . .

Good luck moosetags, I am only being conservative and cautious. I hope you will keep us updated.

Peter

PS RareStream, the post in question started out "If the silicon really does a good job" meaning almost by definition that ALL EIGHT tabs on the back of the vent would indeed be welded to the aluminum, in effect.



Not knowing the outcome of silicon either, I have to agree that the assumption it would "harm" the aluminum seems to me, could be funny to many of us who are familiar with metal, aluminum, plastics, and now, the issues associated with the problem. This sounds like a good solution...I would certainly try it as was mentioned by Mefly, in the 3 or even 4 locations...no offense intended to those "overly cautious" out there! Also as was mentioned, this stuff literally, "rolls" aside with your finger typically when on a surface, if you need to get it off and start over; it's not Supper Glue. Looking forward to hearing how Lucy fairs if you decide to try it Moostags!
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:50 PM   #1368
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What if you buy a thin vinyl clear hose kind of like a fish tank pump hose; slice it in the middle install it in the circular sealing hole then press fit the vent into the opening.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:36 AM   #1369
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What if you buy a thin vinyl clear hose kind of like a fish tank pump hose; slice it in the middle install it in the circular sealing hole then press fit the vent into the opening.
I like this idea. I'll see if I can come up with a piece of hose to try this out. I'll report on the outcome.

Brian
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:09 PM   #1370
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I like this idea. I'll see if I can come up with a piece of hose to try this out. I'll report on the outcome.

Brian
The wall thickness of the hose will be too thick IMO, as the high points of the "gripper steps" in your eight plastic tabs need to just barely overlap the edge of the ceiling aluminum, I believe.

Still would like to suggest that you try one vent with the Fred Flintstone solution of aluminum foil. Very low tech, no cost really, and it might just work . . .

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Old 02-10-2016, 08:17 PM   #1371
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[snip]
. . . this [silicon] stuff literally, "rolls" aside with your finger typically when on a surface, if you need to get it off and start over . . .
[snip]
No one seems to appreciate that the eight spots where the vertical stepped tabs slip into the ceiling duct opening are totally buried behind the vent assembly after it is installed (as I understand the installation anyway). There is no access to "roll" the silicon off anything. Zero access. No room to get an exacto knife in, either, to slit the silicon to aid in its removal. If the eight tabs are a snug fit in the ceiling hole, and if the silicon fills all the misc. little gaps, and glues the tabs to the ceiling, what good is being able to "roll" the silicon off, if you can't even reach the eight spots to roll it off?

moosetags -- any chance you could actually try some of these suggested fixes soon, and give us some feedback? If my assumptions about the way this vent assembly is arranged and installed are incorrect, your feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Peter
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:20 AM   #1372
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No one seems to appreciate that the eight spots where the vertical stepped tabs slip into the ceiling duct opening are totally buried behind the vent assembly after it is installed (as I understand the installation anyway). There is no access to "roll" the silicon off anything. Zero access. No room to get an exacto knife in, either, to slit the silicon to aid in its removal. If the eight tabs are a snug fit in the ceiling hole, and if the silicon fills all the misc. little gaps, and glues the tabs to the ceiling, what good is being able to "roll" the silicon off, if you can't even reach the eight spots to roll it off?

moosetags -- any chance you could actually try some of these suggested fixes soon, and give us some feedback? If my assumptions about the way this vent assembly is arranged and installed are incorrect, your feedback would be appreciated.


Thanks,

Peter
As I have looked at only one vent removed while at the dealer here in SD, it seems the silicon could work. Not sure about the zacto knife spacing and the tremendous hassle you have described, as really being that horrific, if it does not. Have you looked at any of these vents closely yourself? From what I saw, the clips slide up through the hole in the aluminum, into the ducting, and catch on the upper aluminum (topside) of the hole. If the ducting to the hole does not quite match, looks like the tabs have nothing to catch for securing all around. Poor design. I hope one of these suggestions helps Moostags...
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