2013/2014 23' Flying Cloud

[dkottum]

I have factory installed solar system as well. In the battery disconnect "store" position the solar panels will charge the batteries, but the batteries are isolated from the converter. This is a good thing as the solar controller does a good job of charging the batteries at the proper charge voltages, but the converter does not because it's charge voltage remains too high eventually damaging the batteries.

At least that's how I understand it.

doug k

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by SilverGate

My 2007 23' Safari's charge controller was installed by the Airstream factory correctly and I was able to use my 2 factory installed solar panels to charge my AGM batteries while I had to put my Battery Disconnect Switch to the "Store" position to keep the trailer from draining my batteries during a period when my converter was failing. This was documented in post #12 of my "Battery at 45% even though connected to shore power" thread.

Also see the Electrical Schematic for the factory installed solar power system (from my 2007 Airstream Safari Manual).

I was only repeating what the technician at Airstream Northwest Adventures told me. He was referring to current Airstreams as the dealership was not in business in 2007.

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by dkottum

I have factory installed solar system as well. In the battery disconnect "store" position the solar panels will charge the batteries, but the batteries are isolated from the converter. This is a good thing as the solar controller does a good job of charging the batteries at the proper charge voltages, but the converter does not because it's charge voltage remains too high eventually damaging the batteries.

At least that's how I understand it.

doug k

I was only repeating what the technician at Airstream Northwest Adventures told me. I have gotten good service there, but if his info was incorrect it causes me some concern.

[OrangeKid]

We purchased a new 2013 Flying Cloud 23D today We are due to take delivery on Friday April 5th. We are having an Anderson Weight distributing hitch installed. We are also having the factory Atwood 88000 series coupler replaced with a Quickbite 7700XT. The Anderson hitch gets good reviews in the forum and we won't have to deal with the heavy spring bars of the Equalizer hitch any more. The Quickbite also gets good reviews by forum members and Anderson has stated that the Atwood 88000 series couplers are not compatible with their hitch.

We are also installing a DirecLink brake controller in our tow vehicle, a 2013 Lexus GX-460. We previously had the Prodigy P2 in a 2006 Toyota Sequoia SR5 and it performed well for us. We are hoping the DirecLink will stop smoother without causing any skidding of the Flying Cloud's tires.

We are having a Zamp solar single 150 watt panel installed and we are replacing the 2 way refrigerator with a 3 way model. We always felt that the factory installed solar (two 53 watt panels) on our 2007 23' Safari never performed as well as the 100 watt solar we had on our previous 2002 TrailManor. We hope the Zamp performs well. Of course we now live in the Pacific NW and will not get the solar intensity we did in the Vegas area.

Other options include two Fantastic fans, Fiamma bike rack, Lifeline AGM batteries, two MAXX AIR II Vent covers, 600 watt inverter, switch for the refrigerator fan (we may change out the fan for a quiet computer fan as I did on our previous Safari). As we never watch television in the Airstream we are having the Samsung 22" HDTV, wall mount and blu-ray payer removed. We are giving these items to the people who purchased our 2007 Safari. We will use a Bose SoundLink II blue tooth speaker to play music wirelessly from our iPhones and iPads.

We took many great trips with our previous Safari, including two 3 month trips to Alaska. We are looking forward to many more trips including a 6 month trip around the perimeter of the lower 48 as well as southern Canada in the next year or so.

[SilverGate]

In any case, Steve, glad to see your still staying with a 23' Airstream trailer!

Congratulations on your new purchase!

Best,

Bill

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by SilverGate

In any case, Steve, glad to see your still staying with a 23' Airstream trailer!

Congratulations on your new purchase!

Best,

Bill

Yes, we think a 23' is the perfect size for two people.

[SilverGate]

Agreed! And in our case two people and two dogs!

[mutcth]

Congrats on the new trailer! Did you wind up having the frig and oven modifications done? And what Lifeline AGMs are in it - two Group 24s, or did you go 6-volt?

We've been very happy with using the Directlink controller with our Durango, not just for the braking smoothness but also the ease of mounting the unit control head on the dashboard.

Also agree with the electronics edit - as much as I think we'd sit and watch DVDs, we'd probably just watch our two iPads instead.

Tom

[dkottum]

As another suggestion; the short wheelbase, high center of gravity, and solid rear axle (rather than independent rear suspension) of your Lexus doesn't give a stable towing platform in many road and weather conditions. The Andersen hitch (I've got one) has excellent sway resistance, but is not enough to compensate for the handling capabilities of your tow vehicle. A ProPride or Hensley hitch would be good addition to your unit.

doug k

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by mutcth

Congrats on the new trailer! Did you wind up having the frig and oven modifications done? And what Lifeline AGMs are in it - two Group 24s, or did you go 6-volt?

We've been very happy with using the Directlink controller with our Durango, not just for the braking smoothness but also the ease of mounting the unit control head on the dashboard.

Also agree with the electronics edit - as much as I think we'd sit and watch DVDs, we'd probably just watch our two iPads instead.

Tom

We decided to just change the 2 way for a 3 way fridge of the same size. Thus way we can drive with the fridge on and the propane off. I personally think Airstream should include 3 way fridges standard for safety. We kept everything else the same. Lifelines should be 12 volt, as I had on my Safari.

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by dkottum

As another suggestion; the short wheelbase, high center of gravity, and solid rear axle (rather than independent rear suspension) of your Lexus doesn't give a stable towing platform in many road and weather conditions. The Andersen hitch (I've got one) has excellent sway resistance, but is not enough to compensate for the handling capabilities of your tow vehicle. A ProPride or Hensley hitch would be good addition to your unit.

doug k

As I understand it it is not wheelbase that is most important but he ratio of the length of rear axle to hitch ball to the overall wheelbase. The GX does well there.

I did check out and test drive all the European models including the BMW x35d, Touareg TDI, and Mercedes ML 350 Blutec. We really liked both the Touareg and BMW but the European manufacturers do not support the use of WD hitches. I know lots of people use these vehicles with WD hitches but we could not bring ourselves to take on potential liability or warranty issues.

The only mid-sized SUVs that could tow the Flying Cloud 23D with full manufacturer support are the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Lexus GX-460. Oh yes, and for $20k more the Toyota Land Cruiser/Lexus LX.

I agree the GX s not a sports handling SUV, but I think a solid rear axle is a plus for towing. Our Sequoia, with a solid rear axle, did well in all sorts of conditions with the Equalizer hitch.

We will be taking our Flying Cloud on a shakedown trip after delivery. If there are problems with the Anderson hitch I'll consider the Henley or Pro Pride.

[mefly2]

O Kid-
We agree on the 23 for two people/dog(s) ... if only they made it with a rear opening hatch. That is what we wanted, but the folks at AS Adventures NW had the EB and the rest is history! Let us know how the Quick-bite coupler works out, too.

Will the "D" hitch weight over the "FB" be of concern?
_____________________________

Go Beavers!

[idroba]

Originally Posted by OrangeKid

We decided to just change the 2 way for a 3 way fridge of the same size. Thus way we can drive with the fridge on and the propane off. I personally think Airstream should include 3 way fridges standard for safety. We kept everything else the same. Lifelines should be 12 volt, as I had on my Safari.

The problem with a 3 way refrigerator is the amount of 12 volt power they take. The heaters are usually between 20 and 25 amps at 12 volts and that amount of power is very very difficult to get through the charge line on most vehicles as well as the umbilical cord, plugs and sockets and the AS wiring. The net result is you wind up running down your batteries in the AS even while driving and thinking you are charging them.

My experience is that the typical charge current you can expect is 6 to 8 amps maximum, well below the amount needed to maintain the refrigerator current needs. I have an ammeter in my charge line so I can read the current directly at any time. My current new Jeep Grand Cherokee seems to do a bit better than typical, but still only runs a 10 amp charge from the Jeep to the trailer. BTW, all my electrical systems are in good condition, new wiring and so on.

[dkottum]

Comparing solid axle vs independent suspension as it relates to stability, it is useful to look at the attachment points to the frame/unibody of the suspension. The independent suspension attaches much further outboard than the solid axle, nearly at the wheel, effectively giving the independent suspension a much wider and more stable stance.

doug k

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by mefly2

O Kid-
We agree on the 23 for two people/dog(s) ... if only they made it with a rear opening hatch. That is what we wanted, but the folks at AS Adventures NW had the EB and the rest is history! Let us know how the Quick-bite coupler works out, too.

Will the "D" hitch weight over the "FB" be of concern?
_____________________________

Go Beavers!

I don't think so as the 23' Safari had a hitch weight similar to our new trailer. I have a Sherline tongue weight scale and will weigh the hitch with various trailer loading configurations. The measured tongue weight our 23' Safari ranged from 610 to 880 pounds depending on how it was loaded the Lexus has a payload of 1315 pounds.

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by idroba

The problem with a 3 way refrigerator is the amount of 12 volt power they take. The heaters are usually between 20 and 25 amps at 12 volts and that amount of power is very very difficult to get through the charge line on most vehicles as well as the umbilical cord, plugs and sockets and the AS wiring. The net result is you wind up running down your batteries in the AS even while driving and thinking you are charging them.

My experience is that the typical charge current you can expect is 6 to 8 amps maximum, well below the amount needed to maintain the refrigerator current needs. I have an ammeter in my charge line so I can read the current directly at any time. My current new Jeep Grand Cherokee seems to do a bit better than typical, but still only runs a 10 amp charge from the Jeep to the trailer. BTW, all my electrical systems are in good condition, new wiring and so on.

I had a 3 way refrigerator on my TrailManor and never had any issues while driving but it was only 4 cubic feet. The one in the Airstream is 5 cubic feet. I guess we will soon find out.

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Comparing solid axle vs independent suspension as it relates to stability, it is useful to look at the attachment points to the frame/unibody of the suspension. The independent suspension attaches much further outboard than the solid axle, nearly at the wheel, effectively giving the independent suspension a much wider and more stable stance.

doug k

I'm not arguing that independent suspension is not a superior suspension for handling, only that the solid rear axle will be adequate for towing. The only mid-sized SUV that would meet the criteria of including an independent rear suspension and the manufacturer's support of using a WD hitch would be, I believe, the Jeep Grand Cherokee. For other reasons I choose to go with the Lexus.

[dkottum]

You asked for suggestions, just trying to help.

doug k

[OrangeKid]

Originally Posted by dkottum

You asked for suggestions, just trying to help.

doug k

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and trying not to be defensive. My search for a tow vehicle that could both serve as an everyday city vehicle as well as a tow vehicle has been long. Its not ideal but when you live in downtown in a condo a smaller size vehicle is a plus. Our Sequoia was a behemoth in the narrow streets of Portland.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by OrangeKid

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and trying not to be defensive. My search for a tow vehicle that could both serve as an everyday city vehicle as well as a tow vehicle has been long. Its not ideal but when you live in downtown in a condo a smaller size vehicle is a plus. Our Sequoia was a behemoth in the narrow streets of Portland.

I understand your need for a short wheelbase tow vehicle and have one myself, as well as a Andersen hitch. Our solid axle wheelbase is 120", your's about 108", your Sequoia near 120". That's a significant reduction. I don't think the Andersen will be enough to stabilize things for you from my experience, even though it has great sway resistance. It is my understanding the Propride/Hensley design will be safer and far more comfortable with this type of vehicle.

I've gone through two friction sway control hitches and now have a Propride on order. My first hitch with it's non-flexing spring bars was too hard on the trailer and us, and the Andersen turned out to be incompatible with my Airstream coupler. Tired of it all I ordered the one that provides the most overall satisfaction.

Perhaps you could save some hassle we have had by researching these hitches as related to short wheelbase tow vehicles.

doug k