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Old 04-30-2016, 10:35 PM   #827
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Waldo, thanks for the pics. I never would have picked the black accents but seeing yours....they're lookin' mighty fine. You may have changed my mind.

Thanks

Bob
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:14 AM   #828
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I agree -- the old ones look pretty blah by comparison. James, could you please post the full specs of the tires? Also, what pressure are you planning on running them at? Thanks.

Great name too! Hope you will keep us up-to-date on the trip to Alaska.

Happy Trails . . .

Peter
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:57 AM   #829
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
I agree -- the old ones look pretty blah by comparison. James, could you please post the full specs of the tires? Also, what pressure are you planning on running them at? Thanks.

Great name too! Hope you will keep us up-to-date on the trip to Alaska.

Happy Trails . . .

Peter
Peter,

Thanks for the feedback. They weren't my first choice but I'm glad the silver T-03s were backordered for 45-60 days. It's the first set of "aftermarket" rims I've ever purchased on a vehicle but I wanted the safety margin before this big trip...

The tires are the same ones everyone talks about on these forums as an upgrade Michelin LTX M/S2 LT225/75R16 Load Range E. I also upgraded the spare (I've still got to bend the spare tire holder if anyone has any tips or tricks? I'm assuming you just grab a length of pipe and start a little bit at a time but I want to do a bit of research before I just grip and rip).

Installed at Discount Tire it was $1000 with tax and military discount for 3x tires, rims, caps, and lugs.

Thanks, I used to love Where's Waldo books as a kid and when my family got 14.4 kbps AOL 2.0 back in the mid 1990s I tried to get "waldoslost" but it was already taken. It's stuck since then.

James
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:38 AM   #830
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Whoops I was actually referring to Chinook. A passel of good definitions from the NW Native Americans, to the geographic area, salmon and wind. Nice, especially considering your move to Alaska!

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Old 05-01-2016, 11:44 AM   #831
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Thanks for posting the pictures James. Looks great and thanks for your service.
I think TCWheels is running the same set up, I wonder what tire pressures he is using and what his experiences are?
I'm on the fence whether to do this because ever since I had the axle aligned and centramatics along with a new set of Marathons installed I have had great results in about 10k miles now. The tires look great still. I do have to limit my speed to below 65 mph. I tow at 60 even outside of California.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:21 PM   #832
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Thanks for posting the pictures James. Looks great and thanks for your service.
I think TCWheels is running the same set up, I wonder what tire pressures he is using and what his experiences are?
I'm on the fence whether to do this because ever since I had the axle aligned and centramatics along with a new set of Marathons installed I have had great results in about 10k miles now. The tires look great still. I do have to limit my speed to below 65 mph. I tow at 60 even outside of California.

Yes, other than the black painted accents (which look great BTW!) I have the same setup and love it. I started at max tire pressure which is 80 psi. After our first trip and significant pounding of the interior components, I've reduced to 72 psi and that seems ideal for me. I don't have TPMS, other than in tow vehicle, so I check with a high end digital gauge at every stop. I tow at 65 on divided highway and 55 on blue highways. No problems with clearance between tires and trailer and we've been on some very rough campground roads. I think the slight increase in height helps too.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:19 AM   #833
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I asked a while ago if anyone here had installed a Natures Head composing toilet on their 20 footer, and no one responded. I wonder if anyone has in fact replaced their standard toilet.

Well I just purchased the Natures Head and I was going to simply install it where the regular toilet is, but have just decided against it. Looks like I will remove the toilet, remove the stand the toilet is on, remove the black water tank and install the Natures Head at floor level.

Does not seem like too difficult of a job, except for the black tank removal. Anyone removed the black tank from a 20 footer?

From my quick observations it looks like it will need to come up and out right in the bathroom.

Does anyone have any advice on removing the black tank?

-J
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:43 AM   #834
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Your 2008 Safari SE 20' may be structurally different than our 2014 FC20? In ours I believe the black tank goes under the shower enclosure at least partially, and that it could not be lifted up to be removed. Look at the front edge of the raised platform supporting the toilet -- the line of that top front edge (near the toilet base) carries through visually into the shower as a raised part of the shower pan. The blank tank is under that IMO.

To the right of the toilet in our unit, above the raised toilet platform, there is an aluminum shield which I removed to access the city water inlet, and blank tank flush water inlet (both under the bath vanity counter) to investigate a leak and wet insulation in the wall. This shield hides the waste water line from the vanity sink which also runs into the black tank IMO (not the grey tank). I recall reading this elsewhere. With the shield removed, you can stick a camera into the void under the vanity and get photos of the forward sidewall of the black tank, through which the black water flush system jets work (which you do not have if I am recalling correctly).

I am pretty sure that all the tanks (2 holding and fresh water) are removable only from underneath the floor structure of the trailer, but you may have to remove one or more bottom outer skins/pans to check this.

If you post a photo or two of what your toilet area looks like, maybe we could confirm how similar our two designs are.

Good luck!

Peter
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:42 PM   #835
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......Looks great and thanks for your service......
James, I just wanted to reiterate the sentiment.

Bob
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:02 AM   #836
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I had the chance to evaluate the new fan recently on a trip to the coast. During the setup as I started to open the coach door, I lifted the upper refer door and left it open. Walking by 5 minutes later, the fan was off. Pretty quick considering it just converted to ele from gas (which appears to produce more heat) I tested this during periods of full sun and cloud cover and it really did make a difference in the cooling efficiency. I cut off an inch of the foam pipe insulation (that I used to put in the door jamb to hold it open an inch or so and hopefully allow for better airflow) and used that at the latch to protect the skin. Needless to say, I'll be leaving the upper door open from here on. Note when it rained I opted to close the door.


As for the db…exterior I would categorize as inaudible. Interior ~ only barrrley audible. Huge improvement and the best $20 spent to date especially considering the piece of cake install/swap for the OEM.

Pump noise. I was on CW but thought I‘d test for a day. As others have mentioned, it certainly was quieter on 110V vs. 12.7, but the recent pump room sound attenuation improvements were worth the contortion efforts and subsequent sore knees and back. I also noticed that the shuddering (at initial line fill and pressure up) under the shower was still there but the shower plumbing will remain intact as is.

Peter mentioned above (and a much earlier post in this thread) the vanity connection in his rig connects to the BW, which location wise makes the most sense. However in our rig, on our first night to SD while it was essentially empty except for the Gal H20+happy camper, I turned off the water at the commode, turned on the vanity sink and observed down the throat of the commode…no ripples…all quite. No water entering the tank that I could tell.

Looking at our manual (pg 3-9), it shows all but the commode connecting to GW, and the commode flange to BW. Note, it also shows the #3 galley drain visually on the right (next to the exterior shower faucet) above the BW tank, wrapping around the BW to connect to GW yet the Vanity connection in the schematic. The schematic is bizarre and IMO not accurate so I requested and received electronically from JC an accurate plumbing (and ele) schematic detail. It should be noted, that like with the stereo…installations and equipment may vary by build date (October 2013 for me), and I expect individual too.

Also here is a pic of “Blue” in our favorite Beachside SP camp spot first discovered on our '82 trip from CA to Vancouver/Naniamo. The beach is just beyond.

Bob
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:45 AM   #837
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My understanding is that the 20' Safari SE is the precursor to the FC20 and as such they are nearly identical.

I can confirm that my vanity sink does indeed drain into the grey water, NOT the black water, I think you are confusing the 20 with the 16. I can also confirm that I also do have the black water jets as I have used it many many times.

From looking at the bottom of my Safari it looks like it is impossible to remove the black water from underneath, so if it is to come out, it would need to come out through the bathroom. I may be wrong, but I don't think the black water tank goes under the shower, as the fresh water tank is at least partially under the shower.

Both the fresh water and the grey water tanks seem to be removable from the bottom, but not the black tank. I will be removing the toilet and the wooden base the toilet sits on next week and I will get to the bottom of this.

-J

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Your 2008 Safari SE 20' may be structurally different than our 2014 FC20? In ours I believe the black tank goes under the shower enclosure at least partially, and that it could not be lifted up to be removed. Look at the front edge of the raised platform supporting the toilet -- the line of that top front edge (near the toilet base) carries through visually into the shower as a raised part of the shower pan. The blank tank is under that IMO.

To the right of the toilet in our unit, above the raised toilet platform, there is an aluminum shield which I removed to access the city water inlet, and blank tank flush water inlet (both under the bath vanity counter) to investigate a leak and wet insulation in the wall. This shield hides the waste water line from the vanity sink which also runs into the black tank IMO (not the grey tank). I recall reading this elsewhere. With the shield removed, you can stick a camera into the void under the vanity and get photos of the forward sidewall of the black tank, through which the black water flush system jets work (which you do not have if I am recalling correctly).

I am pretty sure that all the tanks (2 holding and fresh water) are removable only from underneath the floor structure of the trailer, but you may have to remove one or more bottom outer skins/pans to check this.

If you post a photo or two of what your toilet area looks like, maybe we could confirm how similar our two designs are.

Good luck!

Peter




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Old 05-03-2016, 03:29 AM   #838
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. . .
Also here is a pic of “Blue” in our favorite Beachside SP camp spot first discovered on our '82 trip from CA to Vancouver/Naniamo. The beach is just beyond.

Bob
Wow what a camp site! And great weather too. Thanks for the photos -- coastal Oregon at its best!

And thanks for the updates on the fridge exterior door/fan and water pump noise levels. Good to hear about progress being made . . .

On the bath vanity waste water drain, you guys are probably right, it drains into the grey tank. See the next post for photos etc. about black tank under toilet, and vent pipe which I had mistakenly assumed was also the sink drain (a "wet vent" in residential plumbing). Sorry for the wild goose chase on this!

Now, moving on to the toilet and black water holding tank . . .
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Old 05-03-2016, 03:47 AM   #839
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. . .
I will get to the bottom of this.
. . .


Thanks for the feedback J. As I just said to Bob, you guys are probably right about the bath sink not draining into the black water holding tank. Sorry for the misdirection on this.

I continue to feel, however, that the black tank probably does go under the shower somewhat, but that it may indeed be removable from above. The following photos may help, at least for our 2014 FC20 bath. [click on photos to enlarge] Curious to know how similar yours is.

Here is the basic view as one enters the bath from the center hall:

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As I mentioned before, see how the line of the front edge of the platform under the toilet carries through visually into the shower pan raised platform +/- ? IMO the black tank goes under there, although I now think it may still be removable from above after the toilet is taken out (if it is just slid under the shower pan and not attached back there).

The next photo is a close-up of the area to the right of the toilet (with the aluminum shield removed) showing the black tank vent pipe, and the white water supply line behind it, tucked in the back corner against the street-side exterior wall.

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This next photo is a close-up looking down into that back corner, showing the black vent pipe going into the top of the black tank. The forward edge of the tank is just to the right (in this photo) of where the pipe is. [important to note this when assessing tank size and location under shower -- see later comment] In other words, the black tank does not extend to the right under the bath vanity cabinet. Indeed you can actually see some kind of wooden sub-floor down there under the tank, under that red pipe. A flashlight would help here.

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The fourth and final photo shows the aluminum shield propped back in place, just to give you a visual on what you probably also have. I encourage everyone to remove this simple shield/cover, to compare our as-built similarities. [3-4 small Phillips screws]

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Given that the black tank holds about 18 gallons I believe, it seems unlikely to these eyes that the entire 18 gallons would fit under the toilet platform, without also going under the shower somewhat. Also if you look at the trailer from the exterior street-side, check out where the main black water waste line comes down vertically out of the black tank, behind the larger dump valve (on the right as you look at the trailer). This vertical run is to the right of the bath windows (as I recall) which are centered on the toilet, or in other words that vertical is under the shower somewhat IMO. It is dark out now, so I can't get a photo of this, but will check it out later in the morning after a doctor's appt..

I agree with you J that the black water tank may indeed be removable from above, after taking the toilet, platform and vent out. If it does in fact sneak under the shower somewhat, hopefully it is not attached back there. BTW was it you who mentioned earlier (or another poster elsewhere maybe?) that the existing vent line could be tapped into for the exhaust fan air circulation required for a composting toilet?

OK that's the report from the poop deck this morning at 0500 EDT -- glad to get to the bottom of this.



Peter
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:22 AM   #840
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Peter,
The tires are the same ones everyone talks about on these forums as an upgrade Michelin LTX M/S2 LT225/75R16 Load Range E. I also upgraded the spare (I've still got to bend the spare tire holder if anyone has any tips or tricks? I'm assuming you just grab a length of pipe and start a little bit at a time but I want to do a bit of research before I just grip and rip).
I finally got around to replacing our spare last week. I had no problem fitting the new one into the spare tire holder. Did not have to make any adjustments.
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