20-footers

[CanonFan]

OTRA15 - thank you! That will be a great help! We're really trying to decide on the FC 20 or the FC23. Our preference is for the FC 20 But we're concerned the freezer space available in the FC20 might be a little too small for us. We would want to take a lot of frozen meat and a few other items with us. We will be goi g to our local dealer on Monday and hopefully make a final decision and try to make a deal. ��

[OTRA15]

Not sure what you mean by a lot of frozen meat, but you might consider having a 12 volt DC plug-in freezer in your tow vehicle, which also works with 110 volt AC? The difference between the 20' and 23' AS trailer freezers will be insignificant IMO. There was a recent thread here about using dry ice in a good quality cooler (Pelican/Yeti), and this route might be a good add-on to the trailer's fridge/freezer.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f382...od-146746.html

There are posts about dry ice, super coolers and plug-in cooler/freezers, which have also been discussed on many threads. [see the search link in the toolbar above]

Good luck at the dealer. Please keep us updated.

Peter

[CruizinDux]

CanonFan,,,Darn, I was at the AS this afternoon winterizing as it's supposed to be 28 on Monday. If I make it back tomorrow I'll measure and post.

However as we just got back from a 19 day maiden voyage where we bought a regular bag of ice to 1) chill it down quicker and 2) for cocktails he first night in Pismo. The unit cooled quickly and the bag pretty much filled the space (H & W) with maybe enough room at the end (L) for a whole chicken. The freezer got down to temp much quicker than the refer, and the bag remained frozen for the entire trip.

Like Peter suggested re the remote unit, I would agree as it sounds like your planing on more than a few lbs of burger and some steaks...sounds to me like you need a bigger... boat regardless of 23 vs 20.

bob

[subfan1]

What we do is remove the meats or chicken or anything else from store packaging and place what we will eat at a time and put in zip lock bags. We freeze packages flat at home and this way we are able to fit more food in our small freezer. We are able to get 10 to 14 days without having to buy main foods. This is for two people.

[CruizinDux]

and

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Bob,

Re: sound dampening material, years ago I worked with this LV-1 material from SoundSense, and it works great. It is expensive by the roll/sheet, but I am hoping to find some suitable scraps locally. TBD. Further R&D may disclose a better material from them or another mfg..

The LV-1 material does not really need an additional air space behind it, at least I don't plan to do that. Maybe contact cement it in spots, especially at the top of each wall piece? I am guessing there is a thicker material, like they use in recording studios on the walls, which may be better, perhaps with a waffle-ly surface like your egg carton idea . . . TBD

Edit -- or like these acoustic panels?

Peter

Peter after a 2pm realization today that I need to winterize before my warranty appointment on Tuesday, I had time as the compressor was running, to check out the pump layout. The pump fox lines certainly don't look any different than residential so I dropped Pentair a note tonight asking what the difference is if any in the kit vs standard install.

The pump sure sounded quieter with the compressor running ; ) I think I'll try the ensolite pad under the pump and also maybe the line hold down straps and maybe the lines as well...I suspect there is vibration with anything that touches or is connected to the floor. I was at the big box today and looked at their sound deadening board...basically a loose fiber board, (probably from Fiberboard ) designed to go between studs and sheet rock. I'm thinking side walls and maybe the bottom of the drawer....depending on clearance. Cheap and easy to work with.

Just Googled SDB this PEX product popped up

http://cdn.opentip.com/Electronics/A...tm_content=PEX basic egg catron stuff.

or

https://jet.com/product/detail/58446...nshoo_clickid_

The second one looks like the ticket...4 mm thickness. Sounds like the spec you mentioned.


[OTRA15 Re: drawer slides -- in another thread the OP referred to replacing the slides. I will try to locate that thread. If the drawer is adjusted correctly in the opening (and that large lower drawer does not really have to match any nearby drawer fronts etc.), I will probably add more screws to the slides (or longer ones), or use through-bolts through the drawer sides with aircraft nuts, if possible.]


The drawer should have held but I remember pulling up to our house to load the bikes and catching the corner of the go-round curb. It basically pulled out both screws on the rear drawer side from the plywood drawer end....the side that was repaired once as the latch mechanism was broken. Regardless of warranty repairs or my dime, I think I'll follow with removing the face and going with two small countersunk bolts thru the end of the drawer, then reinstall the drawer face. I'm also going to figure out some brace/locking mechanism as this is the pot/pans drawer and with the weight, can see this happening again...drawer flying inboard until it its the stops...the stops don't need the stress.

Bob

[OTRA15]

Thanks Bob,

On the sound dampening material, I think the magic words in the LV-1 product description are "loaded mass" which refers to a layer of dense heavy material bonded within layers of lighter foam-y material (as I understand it). It is the density of that layer which will not move much when a sound wave hits it -- think of it like a lead stereo speaker membrane? -- that deadens the sound transmission IMO. That SoundSense site has highly engineered products which work in my experience.

Know any recording studios in Eugene you could visit? They might be able to recommend a wall product, although it might be too think. A layer of something in the bottom of that errant bottom drawer could cut down on sound AND keep the pots from sliding and creating a "head of steam" on their own which increases the force of the pots hitting the front of the drawer, and . . . you get the drift . . .

Ditto on the need for some mechanical "lock" for that bottom drawer just to be sure. No response yet on that other thread about the replacement drawer slides he used. I will measure up the gap from cabinet to drawer side -- there must be a good slide that will fit. KV, Accuride, that German brand (forget right now), but something must fit. How about a custom ply/cardboard box which would sit on the floor and just barely fit between that bottom drawer face, and the bathroom door? It could live as a storage box under the bed, and maybe double as a way to raise the floor height in front of the throne?

Flex connectors for the pump -- please let us know what the mfg. says.

A brief overnight low of 28 F should not affect your plumbing IMO unless there is a strong wind. Draining the water tank and opening the low point drains should be enough IMO, maybe blow out the lines, but it does not seem worth it to do a full winterization including taking the pump lines off, and using AF in the drain traps. Of course if you have the time and inclination . . .

[OTRA15]

CanonFan,

Our 2014 FC20 freezer interior, looking from the front of the appliance, is:

17" left to right
6" high
8 1/4" back to front

These are clear interior dimensions, and you could slide one such rectangular solid box into the freezer space, that is, no doors or hinges are in the way.

YMMV -- VIF [your mileage may vary -- verify in field]

Good luck shopping!

Peter

[CanonFan]

OTRA15 - Thank you very much! This is very helpful indeed. It is very kind of you to take time out of your schedule to get those measurements for me. We had identified some packages of frozen meat and vegetable that we thought we would need on a "typical" trip (for us) and measured the dimensions. What we calculated 'almost' fits within the dimensions you have me. So, with a little modification and or adjustments, we very well may be able to make it work!

Thanks again!

[OTRA15]

You are welcome. If your "almost" implies needing another 1/16" or 1/8" you might make it. I erred on the side of dimensions that would account for small differences in freezers as-built. Don't forget that the actual freezer in your trailer might be different.

[CruizinDux]

[QUOTE: OTRA15

On the sound dampening material, I think the magic words in the LV-1 product … That SoundSense site has highly engineered products which work in my experience. { makes sense }

Know any recording studios in Eugene you could visit? They might be able to recommend a wall product, although it might be too think. ….. AND keep the pots from sliding and creating a "head of steam" on their own which increases the force of the pots hitting the front of the drawer, and . . . you get the drift . . . { totally… & I’ll check around for some studios & LV1…something under 30’. I also have a few architects friends to ask}

Ditto on the need for some mechanical "lock" for that bottom drawer just to be sure. No response yet on that other thread about the replacement drawer slides he used…. How about a custom ply/cardboard box which would sit on the floor and just barely fit between that bottom drawer face, and the bathroom door? It could live as a storage box under the bed, and maybe double as a way to raise the floorheight in front of the throne? [IMG]file:///C:\Users\BOB&MY~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG] { I was thinking of something simple like a Rube Goldberg solution…twist expanding shower rod drawer the BR door/bulkhead??? As a temp solution but I like the double or triple duty ; ) box too. Not sure if I want to get into new glides just yet but may consider.}

Flex connectors for the pump -- please let us know what the mfg. says. { 10-4 …the ones installed sure look like the kit, at least on the surface }

A brief overnight low of 28 F should not affect your plumbing IMO unless there is a strong wind. Draining the water tank and opening the low point drains should be enough IMO, maybe blow out the lines, but it does not seem worth it to do a full winterization including taking the pump lines off, and using AF in the drain traps. Of course if you have the time and inclination . .

{I expect you’re right, but since I’m taking it in for misc warranty work on Tuesday …dropping it off winterized means that’s how they’ll deliver it after new LP drains and a plumbing check…next use is not until the end of April. This winterization went much smoother & AF is cheap…plus another run thru to get the system down was good training. The first winterization was fact finding process & challenge. I post the new drain pics and also how the dealer tweaked the pex so it self-drains from the WH inlet which was a low spor before #408.}


Bob

[jpons]

Has anyone installed a Natures Head composting toilet in their (or anyone elses for that matter ) 20 footer?

I am seriously contemplating installing one and I have measured and think it will fit. However I wanted to see if anyone had done an installation and had images that they would not mind sharing.

I am intersted in seeing the clearance on the sides and and back, and also the height of the toilet.

According to my measurements, the seat would come out at about the height of the counter. This would mean that I would need a small stool in the bathroom so that feet don't end up dangling.

Any pictures people can share would be greatly appreciated.

-J

[OTRA15]

J, I assume you have seen this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f382...ll-146271.html

As you seem to appreciate, the FC20 toilet seat is a little on the high side already, due to the black water tank just below. We are thinking of building up the bath floor enough to make the floor-to-seat height more normal. I forget how close to the floor the bottom of the vanity door is, and will check tomorrow.

Your proposed toilet seat height certainly presents a challenge! Climbing your stool to be seated might put a whole new meaning to the word "throne!" [ ignoring the words "whole" and "stool" for now . . . ]

Have you thought about how/where you would vent the exhaust from the new toilet's fan (if I have understood the basic design right)? I believe that the vent has to leave the composting tank and go horizontal or up (not down IMO).

More generally have you used a composting toilet before? Curious to know more about them.

Good luck!

Thanks,

Peter

[jpons]

Peter,

Yes I am familiar with the thread and I have been reading about composting toilets for about 2 years now. Besides taking our 20 footer on the road, we spend quite a bit of time on a lakefront property we have. The composting toilet did not feel like a necessary thing for when we are on the road, but it would be very convenient from when we are at the lake.

The vent would be easy, my plan is to tap into the black water vent which is right next to the toilet on the right hand side.

I am not interested in building up the floor as that would present an opportunity for tripping in the middle of the night.

-J


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[OTRA15]

Thanks J, I agree the composting toilet would be great for your property at the lake. I assume you also would have room there to bury the composting bags? Have used plenty of rural old-fashioned outhouses, and the new composting heads are definitely a step up. Not sure how much sense they make for a small trailer like ours however.

I looked at our bath floor, and there is room to build it up about 3-4" as one big flat platform behind the entry door all the way to the toilet base, although the bottom of the vanity door will be close to the floor. This door's bottom could be cut a bit higher without disturbing the bottom hinge (of 3). If the entire bathroom floor were uniformly higher, the only thing to trip on would be the 4" rise as you entered from the hall. BTW this floor platform could have great storage under it for heavy things like cast iron frying pans, keeping the weight low in the trailer.

[PKI]

Gold Violin sells "Safe-T-Stool", which is a 8Hx19.5Wx15D step, rated for 500#s. Top is smaller as the sides slant in, but a nice firm step that works in the toilet, under the fans, and anywhere else a step up is required. Construction is plastic, it's made in the USA and available in black, red, and blue to coordinate with your decorating pleasure. Not sure it will fit in a 20, but it works well in our 23 with a bit of wiggle room, which helps.

As a thought, if it's time to install a composting toilet, it might be a good idea to remove the black tank and lower the toilet to floor level. It's a bit more work, but a throne seems like a lot of work on a regular basis. Pat

[centennialman]

What length of hose is recommended to use for the sewer rinse line. It's a garden hose....just not sure what length to buy.

Thanks

[OTRA15]

Do you mean the city water feed to the black water tank flush out system? The connection for this is on the street side near the main city water connection, so you need a clean hose of an appropriate length to reach your city water supply hose bib.

This flush out system has a vacuum breaker in-line to the black water tank, and I think mine leaked inside under the bath vanity. Other threads here have mentioned a leaky vacuum breaker also. I will find those threads if we are in the right location plumbing-wise. For now I do not use the black water flush out system at all. The old fashioned way works fine IMO.

Maybe your question was about another aspect of the "sewer" system though . . . ?

Peter

PS edit -- Post 381 in this thread will lead to another thread with info. on the vacuum breaker situation.

[centennialman]

Thanks for the information...I will look at the post regarding the vacuum breaker...I wasn't aware of that possible challenge.

[OTRA15]

Steve FYI -- just noticed this new thread on the vacuum breaker issue:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...sh-147672.html

[VinnyBoomer]

Hey everyone. Got my new FC 20 all rigged up, took it out for a weekend of dry camping and everything worked great. Vinny, my 150 pulled Boomer, my tailer, like a champ in some pretty challenging places. Ready to hit the road in about 3 weeks, can't wait. Love the design of the 20. Maybe I will see some of you on the road.