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Old 10-16-2015, 12:55 AM   #295
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Thanks guys.

Ditto to subfan1 -- looking forward to seeing photos and tank specs, if you have time TCWheels. My impression is that a quieter pump swap-out will be my first project. The forums are full of threads which touch on this, but this one suggests a couple of Shurflo options which look good to these eyes: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...mp-139285.html

These two pumps are both bypass pumps, which are supposed to be quieter under low flow demand apparently by sending excess water back to the intake ("bypass"):

The 4048 High Flow is 4 GPM: SHURFLO® 4048 High Flow Pump

The 4008 is 3 GPM: SHURFLO® REVOLUTION™ Pump 12 VDC 3.0 GPM | REVOLUTION™ 4008 Pumps

The data sheets for these two pumps do not have any stated decibel levels, but both claim to be quiet.

Not sure what our OEM pumps are, but I will check mine out when I have time. I have a feeling the 4008's lower flow rate will be OK and better for water conservation when not hooked up to city water. My only showers have been with city water. The 4008 draws only 7.5 amps vs. 10 for the 4048. Both are just under 5" high, is there room for this under the drawer? Our FC model years span 2011 to 2014, so I am curious if we have the same OEM pump and available space.

If a quieter pump does not do the trick on its own, some vibration dampening isolation foot pads will be the next step. Is there enough clear vertical height under the large drawer for this? TBD

With the right quieter pump, I think an accumulator may not be needed. One downside -- a new pump will not include the AS warranty. TBD

PS -- If we do not have the vertical height available for a Shurflo pump, maybe there is room for isolation foot pads for our OEM pumps? Thank you for any thoughts and new ideas.
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:33 AM   #296
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PS2 after edit window -- TCWheels, by any chance did you use one of these accumulators?

Accumulators

They have a silencing kit also: http://shurflo.com/rv-products/rv-ac...-silencing-kit

Plus they make a 2.3 GPM model which draws 5 amps. With the right shower head, this may suffice and would be better for boondocking? The size is similar.

http://shurflo.com/rv-products/rv-pu...12-vdc-2-3-gpm

Thanks
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Old 10-16-2015, 03:32 PM   #297
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Following up on the new pump idea --

For better access the 1x4-ish vertical kick valance under the drawer is held in place by four blind screws toe-screwed into the adjoining casework, so it should be easy to remove, thereby giving clear access from the floor up.

The bottom of the drawer is over 6" AFF (above finish floor), so there is plenty of room for a new pump. The high point of the plumbing down there, however, is actually the check valve (and/or vacuum breaker) on the right between the pump and I assume the potable water tank. The drawer clears this valve but not by much, so raising the pump for vibration dampeners may create a new problem. [see below]

Now the bad news. My 2014 FC20 already has the Shurflow 4048 pump, in theory a quieter pump. Hah !!!

As I was on the floor checking this all out, and running the water at different flows, I could feel the floor vibrating both inside the pump area, as well as at the main floor between the pump and bathroom door. Also the offensive noise is actually more in the bass range IMO, leading me to surmise that the pump (securely fastened to the floor) is actually working like the pedal and striker pad of a bass drum, and creating a bass resonance under the floor. This sound is trapped between the floor and the lower skin panel on the coach, thus the bass drum effect. Put the palm of your hand on the floor and then run some water. See? As Tommy said, "see me, feel me . . . " [ for the 60's and 70's lads and lassies here ]

The next thing I will do is remove the four (? -- only 2 visible) mounting screws and slip a foam pad between the pump base and the floor. Expecting a quieter pump . . . TBD.

This is an acoustic management problem, as much as anything else IMO.

Next chapter to be about isolation vibration dampeners, and any associated height problems viz a vis the vacuum breaker check valve.

Ain't trailerin' fun Jethro . . . ?

PS in the thread I cited earlier, I think someone actually suspended their pump using shock cord or something like that, and reported good results. Not sure I want such a flimsy low tech solution, but it may prove that noise management is the path to take here through the woods . . .
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:21 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
For better access the 1x4-ish vertical kick valance under the drawer is held in place by four blind screws toe-screwed into the adjoining casework, so it should be easy to remove, thereby giving clear access from the floor up.
On ours, there were dowels in addition to the pocket screws. Made it a little harder to remove.
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:21 AM   #299
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On ours, there were dowels in addition to the pocket screws. Made it a little harder to remove.
Good to know, thanks. Did you do anything to reduce the pump noise?

Also wondering if you decided to keep the fridge on when you are on the road, as discussed on another thread last year? My old 25' was set up better for this. I guess it is worth a try, as the safety will turn off the gas if there is no ignition.

Thanks.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:38 AM   #300
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We were able to get away for another weekend at the beach, this week at San Clemente SB
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:12 AM   #301
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Removed the four screws holding the pump to the floor, and slipped two layers of medium pile carpet under both ends of the pump. What a difference! You would have to (not) hear it to believe it. When the drawer goes back, it will be even quieter. Wish I had a decibel meter to quantify things.

The pump comes with hollow rubber feet which are actually T-shaped so that the rubber also goes up into the metal base of the pump, through which the four mounting screws go into the floor (and fit loosely with a washer under their heads). IMO the screws were tightened too much so that any pump vibration would be transferred directly into the floor.

Also, forgive a complaint about AS quality control, but these four screws are painted white, and appear to be aluminum surface trim screws, not stainless. Fortunately their Phillips heads did not strip out, as the back two (curb side) were impossible to see. I had to find them by touch, amid the various tubing, conduits and wires back there. One stripped out head on these screws would be impossible to get out without removing the Atwood oven/range above IMO. No thanks.

I plan to get longer SS screws, fabricate some carpet "washer" pads at the floor, and reinstall everything, being careful not to over-tighten the mounting screws. The pump should "float" on the carpet pads, without the screws touching the rubber sleeves/foot pads too tightly. If needed, it might pay to remove the pump and increase the interior diameter of the rubber holes here. TBD.

Sorry for all the detailed descriptions, but hopefully it will help if anyone else wants to give this a go. I thought about starting a new thread, and will do so next time if anyone feels that would be appropriate. Feel free to speak up!

PS subfan1 -- looking good at San Clemente -- really like the new awning. Makes so much sense.
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:03 PM   #302
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OTRA15 - good thought on the carpet vibration dampeners! I was not able to remove any of the screws holding the lines or wires down, they were so over torqued. I had to drill them all out. I'll post some pics of the new setup.
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:56 PM   #303
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Thanks. Yeah, I am guessing that the factory uses air tools to install a lot of these things -- not sure how careful they are (can be?) with their torque settings.

I just got the longer screws, and also realized that the plumbing device to the right of the pump is in fact an inline particle filter for the potable water coming from the tank. The stainless mesh filter is visible through the plastic housing.

Add this filter, and the pump, to the winterization list I guess, Bob [edit -- CruizinDux], if one does not use antifreeze in all the lines, which is the path I intend to take also.

I had thought it was a vacuum breaker, because in the dark it does look like the vacuum breaker which is under the bath counter, way up high, to prevent the black water waste from going backwards into the black water flush system's hose connection under the city water feed on the exterior side of the coach. Another long story [edit -- I had a leak] about these old plastic vacuum breakers sometimes leaking, best left to another time, but confirmed by the dealer's service manager. They now use an all-brass vacuum breaker.

I am also going to locate some sound-deadening material which can be left inside the pump area, similar to some I have seen on construction jobs to reduce sound reverberations in HVAC closets and mechanical rooms -- like a foam pad material with a wavy surface, like they use in recording studios.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:23 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Good to know, thanks. Did you do anything to reduce the pump noise?

Also wondering if you decided to keep the fridge on when you are on the road, as discussed on another thread last year? My old 25' was set up better for this. I guess it is worth a try, as the safety will turn off the gas if there is no ignition.

Thanks.
And I remember now that there was another screw or two on the right hand side of that panel that had to be loosened. Those were screwed in from another part of the cabinet assembly, and were difficult to access. Now that I am remembering all of this, I am impressed that I got that panel out and back in without destroying it.

I was not dealing with the pump this time, but was lowering the drawer so that I could open the oven door without banging into that drawer front. I replaced the cheap slides while I was at it. Lowering the drawer required me to shorten that kick plate a little.

I still drive with the propane on, but cut it off for refueling and propane refills.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:46 AM   #305
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FYI I found some great smaller clear plastic storage containers, multiples of which fit in all kinds of places. [under the dinette seats, in the overhead cabinets above the dinette and front bed, etc.] Similar to the OEM plastic bins under the bed, they have attached flip-top lids, and come 6 to a shipping box:

Amazon.com - Sterilite Large Flip Top Storage Box, Set of 6 - Lidded Home Storage Bins

The Amazon Prime price for 6 was $20.63 including tax and shipping -- can't go wrong there . . .

In some of the overhead cabinets, there is actually enough clear height to stack these containers 2 high and 3 wide, for a total of 6 in EACH cabinet (over the bed for instance). They are too small for some uses, but great for others. FYI and FWIW. You can grab a single container in one hand, and the lid stays attached. Very handy!

This thread got me looking:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f370...ml#post1695185

The various Sterilite links there may be of use . . .
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:58 AM   #306
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Installed the wall brackets from Ikea.
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:33 PM   #307
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TC Wheels,
Really like your new wall brackets....show us what how use them to organize your stuff!
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:28 PM   #308
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[snip]
It appears ours [2nd low point drain] is underneath the black box/WH, behind and to the left of the visible valve. The black box seems to rest almost on top of the valve so it was with much difficulty that I finally reached and turned the Ľ turn to open status and back closed again. The dealer said the valve will loosen up with use and it does seem that after a few open/closes, that may be true. Time will tell. However I’m thinking that buried under the bed may be an easier location.
Bob
Thank you for describing the location of the 2nd drain valve at the back of the hot water heater. I would have had a tough time locating that, and the owner's manual is amazingly vague on this IMO. Surprising Airstream does not put stickers with arrows in spots like this, similar to the jack points under the body by the wheels. And ditto to your comment that it would be pretty simple to find a better location, even 3" closer to the center-line of the coach, but in the same compartment under the front dinette seat.

Thanks again . . .

PS -- TCwheels, nice Ikea hook system. Any chance of a photo or two and the specs. on the accumulator you installed? Thanks.
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