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10-13-2015, 05:04 AM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2014 23' International
Lohman
, Missouri
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 56
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Heat pump or furnace
Cant find much info in my books about it so I thought I'd turn to you all.
Headed out this weekend and its supposed to be in the 30's at night and I know I'll need some heat.
What is the difference between the furnace and heat pump? and when is the best time to use each one?
I have a 2014 International 23D.
Thanks
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10-13-2015, 05:20 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2015 30' International
2009 27' FB International
2007 25' Safari
Currently Looking...
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,564
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Heat pump or furnace
If in the 30's, I suspect the heat pump will not be very effective. Furnace is required.
So, make certain propane is filled prior to departure. Also, make certain battery charge can be kept up if not connected to shore line.
__________________
Happy trails and Good Luck
Ms Tommie Fantine Lauer, Greensboro, NC
AIR #31871 KQ3H
www.fantinesvoice.com
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10-13-2015, 06:38 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2020 28' Flying Cloud
Upper St Clair
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,943
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Heat pumps draw air directly from outside, warm it with electric coils and send it into the area trying to be warmed. Below 50 degrees F the efficiency of heat pumps decreases and below 30 degrees F are less than ideal. Plus they dump lots of moisture into the area being warmed. The furnace will work despite the outside temperature plus it also warms the water lines in the Airstream and can keep them from freezing.
We use the Furnace to take the initial cold out of the trailer and then turn on the heat pumps if temps are above 45 degrees F.
Then what Msmoto said about propane and batteries as the furnace burns up both.
__________________
2020 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2021 F350 6.7 King Ranch
USAF Master Training Instructor (TI) & (MTI)- 68-72
Volunteer K9 Rehabilitator & Trainer
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10-13-2015, 06:49 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
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A heat pump is simply the air conditioner running backwards, taking the little heat from the outside and running it through a compressor to raise its temperature and then use an air to air heat exchanger to warm the inside air. There is no outside air added.
Some of our Airstream heat pumps also have a strip heater in them. This further heats the interior air with electricity.
The furnace takes outside air and burns propane to heat it , Then that combustion air is pushed through a air to air heat exchanger to heat the recirculating interior air. No outside air enters the trailer.
A catalytic heater takes air from the inside trailer and burns propane to heat it. It works by natural convection and radiation. No outside air is involved. The catalytic heater generates CO 2 and moisture which are discharged to the interior of the trailer. No battery power is used.
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10-13-2015, 06:54 AM
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#5
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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We have fairly extensive experience with Airstream heating systems. Our 2005 Safari's heat pump was effective down to the low 40's. Below that, it was furnace time.
Our 2012 Flying Cloud's heat pump with the newer defrost cycle did noticeably better. It was effective well into the 30's. Our 2015 Flying Cloud has this same system. On our recent 81 day trip out west, we used the heat pump extensively at night when the temperatures dipped well into the 30's and 40's.
We used the gas furnace a couple of times when the humidity conditions were such that the heat pump was causing interior condensation.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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10-13-2015, 07:01 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2005 30' Classic
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,743
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We have successfully used our heat pump at temperatures pretty close to freezing, but agreed that it is less effective as you approach freezing.
Assuming you are on shore power however, you are using electricity you have paid for rather than burning up your propane with the furnace. (We have encountered a few campgrounds though who ask a higher fee if you plan to run an AC or electric heater!)
To my knowledge, running a heat pump would not introduce any moisture to your trailer - all it does when you turn it on is to reverse the position of a refrigerant flow control valve in the AC/Heat pump which effectively
reverses the roles of the condenser and evaporator and so pumps low grade heat into the trailer from the outside air rather than pumping heat from inside the trailer to the outside atmosphere.
As far as I know, there is no actual movement of outside air and moisture into the trailer with operation of the heat pump.
However burning your stovetop burners (certainly never recommended for general heating anyway !) will result in products of combustion accumulating in the trailer if not properly vented - one of the products of combustion of propane is water vapor which can cause condensation on windows etc inside the trailer.
Brian.
__________________
Brian & Connie Mitchell
2005 Classic 30'
Hensley Arrow / Centramatics
2008 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD,4x4,Crew Cab, Diesel, Leer cap.
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10-13-2015, 07:33 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51coke
Cant find much info in my books about it so I thought I'd turn to you all.
Headed out this weekend and its supposed to be in the 30's at night and I know I'll need some heat.
What is the difference between the furnace and heat pump? and when is the best time to use each one?
I have a 2014 International 23D.
Thanks
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paraphrasing what others have said:
above freezing use the heat pump = use free power
below freezing use the furnace = use your propane
What I do is use a small portable electric heater, not the heat pump. I set it on low heat setting with the thermostat set just below the furnace thermostat's setting. I place the heater on the floor as far as possible from the furnace thermostat and let it run.
Then I set the furnace thermostat on the temperature we feel comfortable at.
If it is substantially above freezing, the electric heater on its low setting may take care of the heating requirements. When it is colder the electric heater will not completely heat the trailer, but the furnace will kick in when needed to make it comfortable. This saves propane, keeps things in the belly pan from freezing, and I think it is quieter than the heat pump.
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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10-13-2015, 08:56 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,843
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I am not a full timer. I also am sure that if I were, I would probably do differently. I agree with Alan.
Our AC/Heat Pump is extremely loud and I don't want that running at night. We use our furnace exclusively. If we did a lot of cold weather camping I might look into a small electric heater as many have said.
We do camp when temperatures get into the low 40's and I have been out on fishing trips when it gets below freezing. The furnace works great, is quiet and heats the belly area where the pipes are located. Saving a few bucks by conserving propane doesn't make much sense to me. Again, I am not full timing. Savings there would add up.
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10-13-2015, 11:58 AM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
2011 30' Flying Cloud
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 411
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I agree with others that as you near freezing the heat pump is a lot less effective. In our part of the world with generally mild springs, falls, and winters (sometimes) we use the heat pumps a great deal. But, we have issues with condensation being released side the coach so we are heading to Jackson Center in November to see what's going on. We also carry an electric heater to try to avoid using propane furnace.
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10-13-2015, 01:38 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
2011 30' Flying Cloud
Greenback
, Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 294
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Electric Blanket?
We like to sleep cool, so as the temps drop, we get out the electric blanket. It takes very little electricity (shore current) and keeps us cozy warm. The cats like it too! In the morning, we use the furnace to knock off the chill, then a small heater or the heat-pump to sustain the warmer temp. If it looks like the cold snap (much below freezing) is going to persist, we pack up and head farther south. That's why trailers have wheels!
When we use Forest Service campgrounds in the west (summer), we use down sleeping bags. A bit of furnace heat in the morning, but the rig warms up quickly, once the sun hits it.
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10-13-2015, 01:44 PM
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#11
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4 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
Spartanburg
, South Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 437
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How does a heat pump cause condensation inside the RV?
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10-13-2015, 01:49 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob D
How does a heat pump cause condensation inside the RV?
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It doesn't.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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10-13-2015, 04:48 PM
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#13
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
It doesn't.
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I beg to differ. It has been our experience with the new ducted system that when the walls of the trailer are cool and we turn on the heat pump, there is significant condensation produced on the ceiling and walls of the trailer. The initial heat pump air feels and smell damp. This is why in these conditions, we have gone to starting the heat process with a cycle of gas furnace.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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10-13-2015, 05:05 PM
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#14
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2 Rivet Member
2015 25' FB International
my
, house
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 86
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What Brian said. Don't know why, but same in my trailer.
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10-13-2015, 05:45 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2005 30' Classic
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwpaint
What Brian said. Don't know why, but same in my trailer.
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Very odd - we have never experienced that.
Could it perhaps be because you have alum interior walls and ducted air (where the air might be closer to the metal skin) whereas ours is an older Classic without ducted air, and with "Mouse fur" on the walls that provides some insulation value.
I still don't think the fact that you run a heat pump would be somehow be bringing air and moisture in from outside - but it could be condensing moisture already in the trailer from bodies and from cooking inside the trailer the would then condense on cold surfaces I suppose.
Obviously something is different - be interesting to read what others may think.
Brian. (a different one!)
__________________
Brian & Connie Mitchell
2005 Classic 30'
Hensley Arrow / Centramatics
2008 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD,4x4,Crew Cab, Diesel, Leer cap.
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10-13-2015, 06:38 PM
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#16
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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We never experienced this moisture situation in our 2005 Safari 25FB. We are assuming that this current situation may be promulgated by a combination of the aluminum interior walls and the ducted heat pump system.
The other Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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10-13-2015, 07:34 PM
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#17
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3 Rivet Member
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Hahira
, Georgia
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 175
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OK! On the preducted systems, is the chill remover a heat strip or a heat exchanger?
__________________
From my Pecan Tree
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10-13-2015, 08:52 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Heat pumps bring in no outside air. Nor does the furnace. It's a push as to moisture in the air whatever is inside through respiration and showers, etc is the same. I also believe you see it more due to cold exposed aluminum and it's proximity to the duct outlet.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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10-13-2015, 08:53 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecanMan5
OK! On the preducted systems, is the chill remover a heat strip or a heat exchanger?
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Some of both, I believe. Mine has a heat pump. 2007 classic.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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10-13-2015, 08:55 PM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
2003 31' Classic
Terra Alta
, West Virginia
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 274
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Wonder why some do and some don't have a moisture issue. Not a problem on our 03 Classic. We use H Pump down to around freezing. Maybe it does ok because of the wall/ceiling coverings? I do usually crack a vent or two...but not much. Of course the closer it gets to 32f...the more it will work. Takes just a little longer to start putting out heat so for quick warm up use furnace then HP. A bit noisy but overall pleased. Small effecient electric heater would be good for steady heat and low noise for longer stays. I'm glad to have the heat pump. If you have shore power, try it.
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