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Old 02-27-2010, 07:49 PM   #57
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Let me first apologize to everyone for sending this topic off track concerning, my opinion, that dues may be necessary for a NPLLC. This has nothing to do with this topic and should be moved to its own topic.

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Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
I think we need more details of how much the club will cost in advance of joining. That way there are no surprises. I am surprised. It was the spontaiety and freeness that was immediately attractive to possibly many who signed on. Perhaps I am unique in that ascertation and spirit of abandonment. It felt like a movement rather than than a traditionally established club.
The idea of stating how much a non existent club would cost prior to joining is ludicrous. The club was set up free, no commitment to pay anything. However, once things were established we all would expect to pay something.

I joined and have pledge my support both financially and to volunteer for a "traditionally established club." The best of what the WBCCI offered without the IBT issues.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:06 PM   #58
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Since we're talking policy; I have an idea for disciplinary procedures. If anyone has a grievance with anyone else, they shall mutually call each other an @$$hole in the presence of the others nearby and each shall briefly dismiss to fetch the next beer (water, pop, wine, whatever). Both people shall fetch said drink and return to the fire and a new conversation shall have already been started by those still at the fire.

As for insurance, yeah, it's a real need I suppose. BUT, as I recall, attending the BB is not free; and neither should any TAC rally be. Whomever organizes the rally/gathering needs to investigate the need ahead of time and accordingly amortize the cost of a policy into the cost for the attendees. Problem solved.

Where'd my wine glass go?

-Jason
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:09 PM   #59
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I signed up for fun. I guess I didn't realize how serious you all were taking this. I doubt I will be attending a rally so I guess I jumped the gun committing to future costs unspecified. I was being supportive and thought it was cool to see the numbers build. Next time I will read the fine print. Oh that's right there wasn't any. That comes after.

I have been going to and have planned some forum rallies for years and we have always paid our own expenses and kicked in with unsolicited extras without a collection. So, no, not in the least was it obvious to me nor do I find it ludicrous to have expected any difference from my past experiences.

You will all have to excuse me for the misunderstanding. But I guess I unjoin for the time being. Can I still get a refund? M-2 now available.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:21 PM   #60
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I know it got off track and my posts were to correct some misconceptions. Threads wander especially when the original topic is exhausted as I think it was.

I agree with Nick in so far as the thought that once the club gets more established, the issue of money collected in some way will come up for costs of maintaining it—that can be pretty small—and the dreaded insurance issue is bound to keep coming up. Informing some friends you will be at a place on specific days may be the way out of this bind as Mike (Scrapirony 2) says.

But if you leave out that cord that Roger tripped over, and someone's aged grandmother with cataracts trips over it and breaks her osteoporatic hip, her grandson may want to protect her and sue you. At CG with hookups there are cords and hoses and sewer lines all over the place. Interesting case and quite appropriate for a law school exam question in 2nd semester* torts. I sure don't know the answer and expect there are several answers.

And to Carol, it is a movement and is trying not to be a traditionally established club. It can be a club or a group and be different as hard as that may be to do. Take a chance and re-join and don't let lawyers and pseudolawyers** scare you off. "All journeys have secret destinations of which the traveler is unaware."

Gene

*Do they still have semesters?

**Since I've been retired for 10 years, I probably qualify.***

***I sure do love footnotes.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:23 PM   #61
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Gene,

In another organization I belong to, HOG, all members who participate in ANY event must have an annual ‘Liability Waver’ on file for both them and their passengers or they may not participate. Any non-member must sign the same ‘Liability Waver’ for each event.

I’m sure considering the size of HOG this has been challenged and lost as we still use them to this day. Considering some of the ‘events’ we go to are social in nature, we end the portion ‘sponsored’ by the group upon arrival at the event. The simple solution seems to be that such a document may be needed for TAC members, that as a member each assumes all responsibility for their own actions and TAC as an organization cannot be held liable or its members. This, as you say, does not prevent a tort against an individual for wrongful act, but that is every day part of life and being an adult.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:25 PM   #62
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Quote:
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Taking the high road should include avoiding lawyer bashing.
......
Gene
I couldn't agree more! That has no place here. Period. Which thread do we use for that again?
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:30 PM   #63
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Michael, waivers have an uneven history in the courts. They are often used to scare people off from suing, but many lawyers are skeptical about their legality, especially where there's grievous harm. Some them are outrageous in what they say (sort of like a credit card agreement) and should be challenged.

Liability, costs and rules seem to have rejuvenated this thread. At this point I'd rather watch figure skating which only proves I've lost my mind.

Gene
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #64
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I couldn't agree more! That has no place here. Period. Which thread do we use for that again?
The "attack a professor" thread.

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Old 02-27-2010, 08:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
I agree with Nick in so far as the thought that once the club gets more established, the issue of money collected in some way will come up for costs of maintaining it—that can be pretty small—and the dreaded insurance issue is bound to keep coming up. Informing some friends you will be at a place on specific days may be the way out of this bind as Mike (Scrapirony 2) says.
Stated much more eloquently and professionally than my statement.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:41 PM   #66
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Quote:
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The "attack a professor" thread.

Gene

LOL, have at it. To quote the great philospher Vern Gosden "this aint my first rodeo"
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:44 PM   #67
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Figure Skating, they do that?

Gene, I'm waiting for the HOCKEY game. I think it might be a bit of a game to watch
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Old 02-28-2010, 04:40 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
I signed up for fun. I guess I didn't realize how serious you all were taking this. I doubt I will be attending a rally so I guess I jumped the gun committing to future costs unspecified. I was being supportive and thought it was cool to see the numbers build. Next time I will read the fine print. Oh that's right there wasn't any. That comes after.

I have been going to and have planned some forum rallies for years and we have always paid our own expenses and kicked in with unsolicited extras without a collection. So, no, not in the least was it obvious to me nor do I find it ludicrous to have expected any difference from my past experiences.

You will all have to excuse me for the misunderstanding. But I guess I unjoin for the time being. Can I still get a refund? M-2 now available.
From day one this club was presented as a "pay your own way" "pay as you go" endeavor. Everyone pays to cover what is needed to put on an event. Some venues will be at State Parks and everyone can just show up, others will be at private locations and everyone coming will need to throw in some money to cover liability insurance. And for the record, everyone including the hosts are paying equal shares to the Birthday Bash.

This club is not being started as a movement to fill empty numbers and thumb our noses at the club with Mr.Byam's name it. That would be trite and a big waste of time. Perhaps you might want to take that on on your time, because we are very serious about what we have started. This club was started so people could get out of The Airstreamer's Club what is seen as lacking, or even not needed, in the club with Mr. Byam's name in it.
I am terribly sorry if you felt deceived some how. As I said yesterday, no one is of any obligation here. Everything balances out. Some will want to keep their wallets hidden under the floor boards while others will be much more willing to open them fully and even put them back in their pockets empty. Others will be more inclined to work for camping. It will all balance out. There are no hidden cost.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:01 AM   #69
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All can say is??????????????? It is time to go camping!!!!!!! Eat!!!! Drink!!!!!!! Passout by the campfire and give thanks.

I am so ready for a road trip

Brian

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Old 02-28-2010, 08:54 AM   #70
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Quote:
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Liability, costs and rules seem to have rejuvenated this thread.
The topic of Liability Insurance has been used as a justification to suggest value received from membership fees paid to the WB club. In reality, this is in no way a direct benefit to the general membership. The coverage only applies to officials of the club in their activities related to the club. Even in those cases, it does not provide coverage exclusive to any other liability coverage held by the official.

When the time comes, the folks involved in the organization of any TAC event should consult their insurance agent regarding any liability associated with their participation. Likely, many of us already carry a certain amount of personal Liability insurance that would most likely suffice in the case of a rally held at a Campground or State Park. As far as a gathering held on my personal property... I would certainly not rely on a "club held" policy to cover that.

To sum it up, this is an issue that is best considered by each individual and is not well handled by any "club" purchased policy.
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